WAS THE LAW FULFILLED OR ABOLISHED?

[WIP]

WIP,,,you state above that we are free from the law.
And you quoted John 8:36,,,,if the Son has set us free, we are free indeed.

Do you think we're freed from the law or freed from bondage to satan?

Many take this to mean that we are freed from the Law.
But in verse 31 Jesus says that if we are His disciples we are to abide in His word.
Jesus' word is the Law of Christ.

He said that we are to love God,,,
Love ourselves as our neighbor.

Galatians 5:6 says that faith expresses itself through love.
Love is how we are to treat others and how we are to live.

We are not absolved from the Law,,,,but if we love then we are following the Law.

Shall we sin more so that grace may abound!
May it never be!
Romans 6:1-2

I believe we are free from the condemnation of the law but not free to ignore the law. What is that law? Love God with all our heart, mind, and soul and love others as we love ourselves. On these hang all the law.

35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying,
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Matthew 22:35-40 NKJV

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe we are free from the condemnation of the law but not free to ignore the law. What is that law? Love God with all our heart, mind, and soul and love others as we love ourselves. On these hang all the law.

35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying,
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Matthew 22:35-40 NKJV

Agreed.

I've read some posters that think because Jesus "fulfilled" the law, then we do not have to.
They feel we are not bound by the law at all.

But Jesus Himself said that if we're his disciples we're to obey the Law....
so fulfilled cannot mean what some think it does.

The Law is a legal instrument. If Jesus had not fulfilled the law,,,then that legal instrument would still be in effect today. And we'd all be having to work for our salvation....

Jesus not only fulfilled the sacrificial system....which was encompassed in the ceremonial law...
but also the moral law...He completely fulfilled all the law by keeping it perfectly.

Jesus also fulfilled the prophecies that were spoken of Him in the O.T.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Galatians 5:13-14 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge in sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

I'm going to let people just interpret for themselves.

 

[GodsGrace]

Galatians 5:13-14 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge in sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

I'm going to let people just interpret for themselves.

:nod

Love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[WIP]

Agreed.

I've read some posters that think because Jesus "fulfilled" the law, then we do not have to.
They feel we are not bound by the law at all.

But Jesus Himself said that if we're his disciples we're to obey the Law....
so fulfilled cannot mean what some think it does.

The Law is a legal instrument. If Jesus had not fulfilled the law,,,then that legal instrument would still be in effect today. And we'd all be having to work for our salvation....

Jesus not only fulfilled the sacrificial system....which was encompassed in the ceremonial law...
but also the moral law...He completely fulfilled all the law by keeping it perfectly.

Jesus also fulfilled the prophecies that were spoken of Him in the O.T.

And I believe that when we accept Jesus as Lord, not just one fleeting moment but continuously in our lives, then His righteousness covers our unrighteousness. Does that make sense?

 

[GodsGrace]

And I believe that when we accept Jesus as Lord, not just one fleeting moment but continuously in our lives, then His righteousness covers our unrighteousness. Does that make sense?

Yes, it certainly does.
We are covered by Jesus ....

Galatians 3:27
27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

 

[LovethroughDove]

:nod

Love is the fulfillment of the law.

I would say yes and Jesus is what love looks like

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Love is not eye for an eye, love goes beyond. Love does no harm. We are supposed to go beyond what a natural response would be, we are to be supernatural.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say yes and Jesus is what love looks like

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Love is not eye for an eye, love goes beyond. Love does no harm. We are supposed to go beyond what a natural response would be, we are to be supernatural.

Right.
In Matthew 5:20 Jesus said that our righteousness (being right with God) must SURPASS that of the Scribes and Pharisees....meaning we must obey with our heart and not with our mind only.

Matthew 23:3 is also a good verse
3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.
4“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5“But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men;

 

[LovethroughDove]

Right.
In Matthew 5:20 Jesus said that our righteousness (being right with God) must SURPASS that of the Scribes and Pharisees....meaning we must obey with our heart and not with our mind only.

Matthew 23:3 is also a good verse
3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.
4“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5“But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men;

Yep. We do it out of our love for God and they do it to satisfy their egos. (probably)

 

[JLB]

I wonder if we Christians have a clear idea of what it means to fulfill the law.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. "

But we know that we no longer keep the Civil Law or the Ceremonial Law...
We keep only the Moral Law,,,,the 10 Commandments.

So:
1. What are the Ceremonial Laws?
2. What are the Civil Laws?

Did Jesus come to abolish? And what would that mean?
Or did Jesus come to fulfill? And what would that mean?

And, to help along and begin...I'll post the following:


It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “…not to abolish, but to fulfill.” Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10,13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.



If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today—then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is a totally compelling system.

source: https://ekklesiaburundi.wordpress.c...-it-mean-to-fulfill-the-law-by-lois-tverberg/


I hope we can understand this more deeply through discussion.....I'm always eager to learn.



WIP

It was abolished because it was fulfilled.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


Scripture Keys:


The first thing we need to understand is, Jesus said He came to fulfill the law.

• the I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Once we establish that Jesus fulfilled the law, then we can see the next verse for what it means.

• one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus said nothing would pass from the law until it’s fulfilled.


Paul says it this way —


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• What purpose then does the law serve?
• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come...

There’s that word “until” again.


By saying “until”, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.


The law was added, until the Seed should come.

The reason He came was to fulfill the law.


More scriptures to examine but I wanted to establish this foundational point before moving on.



JLB

 

[JLB]

in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:3-4



The righteousness requirement of the law of Moses is the same as the requirement for the law of faith.


Obedience.


JLB

 

[JLB]

And I believe that when we accept Jesus as Lord, not just one fleeting moment but continuously in our lives, then His righteousness covers our unrighteousness. Does that make sense?

It does make sense.


When we are not “hiding” from Him, but walking with Him in the light.




JLB

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

But we know that we no longer keep the Civil Law or the Ceremonial Law...
We keep only the Moral Law,,,,the 10 Commandments.

So:
1. What are the Ceremonial Laws?
2. What are the Civil Laws?

I do not agree with this part. When Christ took the OT law out of the way, He removed ALL of it making ALL of it inactive, ineffective today including the 10 commandments. Therefore remembering the Sabbath day is not part of NT Christianity. (I would say Sabbath keeping would be 'ceremonial/civil' law rather than a 'moral' law. Is the OT laws against eating blood, writing of divorcement, etc, categorized as ceremonial or moral laws? How is such determined among the dozens and dozens of OT laws? And who has been given authority to correctly determine this distinction for everyone else so we can all correctly distinguish between ceremonial and moral laws?).

--In Matthew 5:17 Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets. Jesus did not fulfill SOME of the OT Prophets about Him but all of them. Jesus did not fulfill just SOME of the OT law but all of it. The verse (context) does not make distinctions between ceremonial and moral laws. Continuing in Matthew 5:21 to the end of the chapter Jesus talks of murder, lusting, anger, divorce, telling the truth, lawsuits, loving your enemies, etc. He made no distinction between moral or civil laws.

--In many places Paul refers the OT law simply as "the law" and made no distinctions between ceremonial or moral laws. For example, Gal 3:17-19 Paul says 'the law' was given 430 years before the promise and was to last till the seed should come. John says this law was given through Moses (John 1:17). This does not mean just the ceremonial law was given to Moses before the seed should come. Nor does it mean just the moral law was given to Moses before the seed should come. It means ALL the law given till the seed should come.
Romans 2:12-17 does Paul mean by 'the law' ALL the law or just some (ceremonial parts) of the law?
Romans 3:1-2 was it just the ceremonial law that gave the Jews adavantage over the Gentile?
Galatians 2:19 Paul die just to the ceremonial law? Just the moral law?
Hebrews 10:28 did this apply to those that despised just the ceremonial law? Or the moral law? Again, many many verses in the NT refer to just "the law" making no distinction between ceremonial or moral laws.

--Matthew 22:40 on these two commandments hangs ALL the law and Prophets not just some of the law nor just some of the Prophets.

 

[JohnDB]

I do not agree with this part. When Christ took the OT law out of the way, He removed ALL of it making ALL of it inactive, ineffective today including the 10 commandments. Therefore remembering the Sabbath day is not part of NT Christianity. (I would say Sabbath keeping would be 'ceremonial/civil' law rather than a 'moral' law. Is the OT laws against eating blood, writing of divorcement, etc, categorized as ceremonial or moral laws? How is such determined among the dozens and dozens of OT laws? And who has been given authority to correctly determine this distinction for everyone else so we can all correctly distinguish between ceremonial and moral laws?).

--In Matthew 5:17 Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets. Jesus did not fulfill SOME of the OT Prophets about Him but all of them. Jesus did not fulfill just SOME of the OT law but all of it. The verse (context) does not make distinctions between ceremonial and moral laws. Continuing in Matthew 5:21 to the end of the chapter Jesus talks of murder, lusting, anger, divorce, telling the truth, lawsuits, loving your enemies, etc. He made no distinction between moral or civil laws.

--In many places Paul refers the OT law simply as "the law" and made no distinctions between ceremonial or moral laws. For example, Gal 3:17-19 Paul says 'the law' was given 430 years before the promise and was to last till the seed should come. John says this law was given through Moses (John 1:17). This does not mean just the ceremonial law was given to Moses before the seed should come. Nor does it mean just the moral law was given to Moses before the seed should come. It means ALL the law given till the seed should come.
Romans 2:12-17 does Paul mean by 'the law' ALL the law or just some (ceremonial parts) of the law?
Romans 3:1-2 was it just the ceremonial law that gave the Jews adavantage over the Gentile?
Galatians 2:19 Paul die just to the ceremonial law? Just the moral law?
Hebrews 10:28 did this apply to those that despised just the ceremonial law? Or the moral law? Again, many many verses in the NT refer to just "the law" making no distinction between ceremonial or moral laws.

--Matthew 22:40 on these two commandments hangs ALL the law and Prophets not just some of the law nor just some of the Prophets.

So,
Are you saying that Jesus fulfilled and abolished the Law? (Sorry to cut it so concisely)

 

[JLB]

So,
Are you saying that Jesus fulfilled and abolished the Law? (Sorry to cut it so concisely)

My answer to that is yes.

Jesus abolished the law of Moses.

All of it.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I do not agree with this part. When Christ took the OT law out of the way, He removed ALL of it making ALL of it inactive, ineffective today including the 10 commandments. Therefore remembering the Sabbath day is not part of NT Christianity.

 

[JLB]

I do not agree with this part. When Christ took the OT law out of the way, He removed ALL of it making ALL of it inactive, ineffective today including the 10 commandments. Therefore remembering the Sabbath day is not part of NT Christianity. (I would say Sabbath keeping would be 'ceremonial/civil' law rather than a 'moral' law. Is the OT laws against eating blood, writing of divorcement, etc, categorized as ceremonial or moral laws? How is such determined among the dozens and dozens of OT laws? And who has been given authority to correctly determine this distinction for everyone else so we can all correctly distinguish between ceremonial and moral laws?).

--In Matthew 5:17 Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets. Jesus did not fulfill SOME of the OT Prophets about Him but all of them. Jesus did not fulfill just SOME of the OT law but all of it. The verse (context) does not make distinctions between ceremonial and moral laws. Continuing in Matthew 5:21 to the end of the chapter Jesus talks of murder, lusting, anger, divorce, telling the truth, lawsuits, loving your enemies, etc. He made no distinction between moral or civil laws.

--In many places Paul refers the OT law simply as "the law" and made no distinctions between ceremonial or moral laws. For example, Gal 3:17-19 Paul says 'the law' was given 430 years before the promise and was to last till the seed should come. John says this law was given through Moses (John 1:17). This does not mean just the ceremonial law was given to Moses before the seed should come. Nor does it mean just the moral law was given to Moses before the seed should come. It means ALL the law given till the seed should come.
Romans 2:12-17 does Paul mean by 'the law' ALL the law or just some (ceremonial parts) of the law?
Romans 3:1-2 was it just the ceremonial law that gave the Jews adavantage over the Gentile?
Galatians 2:19 Paul die just to the ceremonial law? Just the moral law?
Hebrews 10:28 did this apply to those that despised just the ceremonial law? Or the moral law? Again, many many verses in the NT refer to just "the law" making no distinction between ceremonial or moral laws.

--Matthew 22:40 on these two commandments hangs ALL the law and Prophets not just some of the law nor just some of the Prophets.

However, we must understand that Abraham obeyed His Commandments and laws 430 years before the law was added.

Abraham learned from the Lord directly, by faith, the way He desired to teach Adam and Eve.


The way He desires to teach us today, which is the promise of the New Covenant. See Jeremiah 31

Abraham walked with Him, in His presence, obeying His voice, which enabled him through grace and faith to obey the Lord.


Abraham was the pattern for us to follow.


And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:4-5



JLB

 

[XNYHCX]

Remember the Sabbath Day and keep it Holy.
This Day is singular and not plural. (Singular meaning plural isn't a part of Hebrew language) Now the other 613 Laws helped define how faith was shown...this one was in double speak of how this contract the 10 commandments would end and the new Covenant would be installed.
They showed faith in the future by not showing reverence on every Saturday and doing no work. And to this day by having faith that Jesus'atonement for our sins is sufficient we still fulfill this section of the 10.

They showed faith in the future by not showing reverence on Saturday? I don't understand that and I don't think that's true. I find it very difficult to believe that any Jews were working on Shabbat.

I don't understand, "Singular meaning plural isn't a part of Hebrew language." Do you just mean that Shabbat is used there rather than Shabbatot? It also says six days you shall labor, but I think it's pretty easy to understand that on days eight through thirteen are intended for labor as well and day fourteen to rest again (and so on). Otherwise the everlasting covenant was actually only a one week covenant.

I'm not fighting, I'm just having a hard time understanding what you're saying.

 

[XNYHCX]

I wonder if we Christians have a clear idea of what it means to fulfill the law.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. "

But we know that we no longer keep the Civil Law or the Ceremonial Law...
We keep only the Moral Law,,,,the 10 Commandments.

So:
1. What are the Ceremonial Laws?
2. What are the Civil Laws?

Did Jesus come to abolish? And what would that mean?
Or did Jesus come to fulfill? And what would that mean?

And, to help along and begin...I'll post the following:


It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “…not to abolish, but to fulfill.” Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10,13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.



If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today—then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is a totally compelling system.

source: https://ekklesiaburundi.wordpress.c...-it-mean-to-fulfill-the-law-by-lois-tverberg/


I hope we can understand this more deeply through discussion.....I'm always eager to learn.



WIP

Great post. It sparks a lot of thought.

I'd like tonote that moral laws are not restricted to the big ten. For example:

To imitate God's good and upright ways
To pray to God
Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger
Not to cherish hatred in one's heart
Not to take revenge
Not to bear a grudge
To relieve a neighbor of his burden
Not to afflict an orphan or a widow
To love the stranger
Not to wrong the stranger in speech
Not to wrong the stranger in buying or selling
Not to smite a father or a mother
Not to curse a father or mother
Not to have intercourse with another man's wife
Not to commit fraud in measuring
To ensure that scales and weights are correct
Not to violate an oath or swear falsely
Not to rob by violence
Not to indulge in evil thoughts and sights
To heed the call of every prophet in each generation
Not to prophesy falsely
Not to commit incest with one's mother
Not to commit incest with one's daughter
And so on.

It is the belief and custom of many that the Law was freedom in the first place, not bondage. David calls it a light unto his feet. It provides instruction for what to do even when you sin -- meaning rather than demand perfection, it accounts for imperfection . Jesus says that to love GOD above all else and to love your neighbor as yourself is the foundation of all the Law and the Prophets, and that Heaven and Earth will pass away before the Law does.

 

[for_his_glory]

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Jesus came to fulfill the righteousness of the law as we no longer live by the letter of the law, but now by faith in Christ to all who will believe.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus was made the fulfillment of Gods righteousness of the law as He is now our righteousness through faith as we are made righteous through the blood of Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Notice in vs. 18 that not all the law has been fulfilled yet as we are still under the moral laws Jesus gave to His Church in Matthew 18:15-20; 1 Corinthians Chapters 6-10 and James Chapters 4 and 5. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns and we are with Him forever.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.