We are at the end, Iran and Israel war.

[Manasseh]

We're not that nit picky, brother. We just don't go in for rabid, over-the-top Jew bashing, any more than for any other race or political party or denomination or religious affiliation. The Christian should be an example of love to everyone on planet earth, so we try to uphold that ideal here. Doesn't matter who does and doesn't deserve it, we hold to letting our rain fall on the just and the unjust, and let God be judge of what will become of the wicked.

OK then, thank you for the clarification.

I am not shy about my opinions, though I am learning to be more measured in how I express them.

I'll tell you right up front that I do not subscribe to the majority view.

 

[Hidden In Him]

OK then, thank you for the clarification.

I am not shy about my opinions, though I am learning to be more measured in how I express them.

I'll tell you right up front that I do not subscribe to the majority view.

Makes for interesting discussion. Just keep the disagreements peaceable. And if others should not return the favor just let us know. But the world would be a boring place if everyone thought exactly alike. Just be respectful. When it comes to politics in general, we had to shut the subject matter down entirely for a time despite not wanting to. So now we are inching it back. So far so good, but never something to take one's eyes off of in a world where so many readily gives themselves over to strife.

 

[Manasseh]

Makes for interesting discussion. Just keep the disagreements peaceable. And if others should not return the favor just let us know. But the world would be a boring place if everyone thought exactly alike. Just be respectful. When it comes to politics in general, we had to shut the subject matter down entirely for a time despite not wanting to. So now we are inching it back. So far so good, but never something to take one's eyes off of in a world where so many readily gives themselves over to strife about such things.

"We can be sure that we have created God in our own image,
when He agrees with everything we say."

 

[reddogs]

Consider it thought about.

And with patience and sound judgement.

miamited---

Big difference though. We don't say "we want to wipe Russia off the face of the earth" and pursue greater nuclear weapons. We have them as a DETERRENT. Iran has openly stated they want to destroy Israel off the face of the earth--or push them into the sea. Think of a neighborhood. The neighbors state: "we have weapons in our home to protect ourselves from intruders". But what if one neighbor stated: "We are buying shotguns in hopes that one day we can blast the Rosenbergs in the house at the end of the street off of our block". What Iran is doing and saying is much different than what the USA is saying. And what if that neighbor had already broken the windows in the Rosenbergs house, and had killed their cat? Would you say "oh, well the Rosenbergs have every right to own those shotguns?" Or would you seek a way to prevent them from having them--or severely restrict their ability to do harm to anyone? Think about it.

I think, 'when they say Peace and safety; then sudden destruction', applies, as there is no real answer.

 

[miamited]

We have them as a DETERRENT.

You should ask Japan how well it works as a deterrent. We are, as yet, the only nation that has used nuclear weapons against an enemy and you're telling me that that's why we don't want Iran to have them. Right! Hypocritical much?

 

[ezrider]

Iran didn't invade or attack one of it's neighbors unprovoked, true. But Iran FUNDS PROXIES who do attack neighbors.

There is no denying that Iran has supported proxies in the region, but then again, so has the United States. When did the Houthis and Hamas become proxies for Iran, was it before or after the United States and Britain set up a dictator in Iraq named Saddam Hussein to wage their proxy war against Iran back in the 1980's?

It is a FACT that Hamas is funded by Iran--and so are the Houthi rebels.

Exactly how much has Iran funded to the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah groups relative to the trillions that have been funded to Israel by the United States, Britain, France and Germany?

Do you know who else funded Hamas? That's right, Benjamin Netanyahu has funded Hamas. It's a fact!

And the fact is--it is a miracle that Israel is back in their land. The Temple was destroyed in AD 70 and the Jews were scattered.

Yes, it is a fact that there is a nation state in the middle east today the we call Israel. But ISRAEL is not back in the land, the JEWS are. The JEWS were but one of the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL, that being the tribe of JUDAH. Where are the other tribes?

They remained scattered among many nations for 2000 years. In 1947 the Dead Sea Scrolls (the ancient Hebrew scrolls) were discovered in caves. One year later Israel became a Nation once again. This is no COINCIDENCE. God's hand is involved here.

No one is saying God's hand wasn't involved. But what you see as a miracle is a lying sign and wonder, and in the scripture God said the he would send you strong delusion so that you believe that lie. You have not stopped to consider the lie nor reflect upon the delusion you have been born into. For all of us born in these last generations we have only known the existence of the State of Israel created under the United Nations Charter.

My introduction to this delusion came in the form of a book called the Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey; a book that set preconceived notions about this state called Israel in my mind before I had ever read the Bible. In fact, it was a marketing ploy, a selling point to convince me in the authenticity of the Bible itself, that a State called Israel being created fulfilled some sort of Bible prophecy.

So the delusion begins with the modern State of Israel. When we study the scriptures and we look to the prophecies, we are drawn into trying to understand it all through the context of the modern State of Israel. The delusion continuous when we fill ourselves with scripture and doctrines looking for some coming Anti-Christ.

One day your delusions will come to a head and the scales will fall from your eyes and you will begin to understand that the Law and the Prophets pointed to Christ; not the modern state of Israel and not prophecies about a coming Anti-Christ. You have been taught to hold a certain chosen people in high esteem, even above that of Christ and those chosen in Christ.

In Isaiah 11 God stated he would re-gather his people in the last days back into their land.

Site the exact scripture were this is explicitly stated.

 

[Manasseh]

There is no denying that Iran has supported proxies in the region, but then again, so has the United States. When did the Houthis and Hamas become proxies for Iran, was it before or after the United States and Britain set up a dictator in Iraq named Saddam Hussein to wage their proxy war against Iran back in the 1980's?




Exactly how much has Iran funded to the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah groups relative to the trillions that have been funded to Israel by the United States, Britain, France and Germany?

Do you know who else funded Hamas? That's right, Benjamin Netanyahu has funded Hamas. It's a fact!



Yes, it is a fact that there is a nation state in the middle east today the we call Israel. But ISRAEL is not back in the land, the JEWS are. The JEWS were but one of the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL, that being the tribe of JUDAH. Where are the other tribes?




No one is saying God's hand wasn't involved. But what you see as a miracle is a lying sign and wonder, and in the scripture God said the he would send you strong delusion so that you believe that lie. You have not stopped to consider the lie nor reflect upon the delusion you have been born into. For all of us born in these last generations we have only known the existence of the State of Israel created under the United Nations Charter.

My introduction to this delusion came in the form of a book called the Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey; a book that set preconceived notions about this state called Israel in my mind before I had ever read the Bible. In fact, it was a marketing ploy, a selling point to convince me in the authenticity of the Bible itself, that a State called Israel being created fulfilled some sort of Bible prophecy.

So the delusion begins with the modern State of Israel. When we study the scriptures and we look to the prophecies, we are drawn into trying to understand it all through the context of the modern State of Israel. The delusion continuous when we fill ourselves with scripture and doctrines looking for some coming Anti-Christ.

One day your delusions will come to a head and the scales will fall from your eyes and you will begin to understand that the Law and the Prophets pointed to Christ; not the modern state of Israel and not prophecies about a coming Anti-Christ. You have been taught to hold a certain chosen people in high esteem, even above that of Christ and those chosen in Christ.



Site the exact scripture were this is explicitly stated.

There's not much to disagree with here, except perhaps your delivery.

Those of us who hold to the minority view, must choose our words very carefully, we must pray before every post, and follow the guidelines of charity that have been set before us all throughout Gods Holy Word.

I'm not saying you crossed the line, but you're treading that line very closely. Now that you and I know where we stand. I ask that you would help to hold me accountable in this regard, and allow me to do the same for you my brother.

 

[ezrider]

There's not much to disagree with here, except perhaps your delivery.

Those of us who hold to the minority view, must choose our words very carefully, we must pray before every post, and follow the guidelines of charity that have been set before us all throughout Gods Holy Word.

I'm not saying you crossed the line, but you're treading that line very closely. Now that you and I know where we stand. I ask that you would help to hold me accountable in this regard, and allow me to do the same for you my brother.

To whom would be "those of us," the we you are referring to? And what is this line you speak of not to be crossed?

 

[reddogs]

Well this is an interesting development..

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/putin-urges-iran-take-zero-enrichment-nuclear-deal-with-us-axios-reports-2025-07-12/

Putin said to tell Trump, Iran that he backs deal barring Tehran from enriching uranium

Iran's FM stresses rejection of 'any agreement in which enrichment isn't included,' says snapback sanctions 'would signify the end of Europe's role in the Iranian nuclear dossier'

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[reddogs]

You should ask Japan how well it works as a deterrent. We are, as yet, the only nation that has used nuclear weapons against an enemy and you're telling me that that's why we don't want Iran to have them. Right! Hypocritical much?

Well, do you think we should have allowed Nazi Germany with Adolf Hitler leading it to get the bomb and use it. Of course not, you try to keep such things from happening as far as you can.

 

[Fish153]

You should ask Japan how well it works as a deterrent. We are, as yet, the only nation that has used nuclear weapons against an enemy and you're telling me that that's why we don't want Iran to have them. Right! Hypocritical much?

Someone else posted and mentioned Nazi Germany. And that was a very good point. The USA dropped two atom bombs on Japan for the express purpose that they would surrender. And they did. The USA never used another nuclear weapon on anyone. But we know that if Nazi Germany had gotten a nuclear weapon that would likely have used it as they were aggressors. Iran is an aggressor also. It makes complete sense that we (or any other country for that matter) do not want Iran to have nuclear weapons because we KNOW why they would use it. The fact that the USA once used nuclear weapons versus the threat of Iran is not hypocritical at all. Think again about this----the USA was the ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD who had Nuclear weapons. THE USA could have literally TAKEN OVER THE WORLD at that time if they wanted to! But the USA only used the weapons as a deterrent, not an OFFENSIVE weapon. Iran wants nuclear weapons for OFFENSIVE reasons---they have proved that. They had to be stopped.

 

[Fish153]

There is no denying that Iran has supported proxies in the region, but then again, so has the United States. When did the Houthis and Hamas become proxies for Iran, was it before or after the United States and Britain set up a dictator in Iraq named Saddam Hussein to wage their proxy war against Iran back in the 1980's?




Exactly how much has Iran funded to the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah groups relative to the trillions that have been funded to Israel by the United States, Britain, France and Germany?

Do you know who else funded Hamas? That's right, Benjamin Netanyahu has funded Hamas. It's a fact!



Yes, it is a fact that there is a nation state in the middle east today the we call Israel. But ISRAEL is not back in the land, the JEWS are. The JEWS were but one of the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL, that being the tribe of JUDAH. Where are the other tribes?




No one is saying God's hand wasn't involved. But what you see as a miracle is a lying sign and wonder, and in the scripture God said the he would send you strong delusion so that you believe that lie. You have not stopped to consider the lie nor reflect upon the delusion you have been born into. For all of us born in these last generations we have only known the existence of the State of Israel created under the United Nations Charter.

My introduction to this delusion came in the form of a book called the Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey; a book that set preconceived notions about this state called Israel in my mind before I had ever read the Bible. In fact, it was a marketing ploy, a selling point to convince me in the authenticity of the Bible itself, that a State called Israel being created fulfilled some sort of Bible prophecy.

So the delusion begins with the modern State of Israel. When we study the scriptures and we look to the prophecies, we are drawn into trying to understand it all through the context of the modern State of Israel. The delusion continuous when we fill ourselves with scripture and doctrines looking for some coming Anti-Christ.

One day your delusions will come to a head and the scales will fall from your eyes and you will begin to understand that the Law and the Prophets pointed to Christ; not the modern state of Israel and not prophecies about a coming Anti-Christ. You have been taught to hold a certain chosen people in high esteem, even above that of Christ and those chosen in Christ.



Site the exact scripture were this is explicitly stated.

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the SECOND TIME to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, AND FROM THE ISLANDS OF THE SEA.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah FROM THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH". (Isaiah 11: 11,12)

If you read the chapter it speaks first of the coming of Jesus Christ to the earth (HIS FIRST COMING) Then it jumps to the future and speaks of a time when God will restore his people to their land. He will call them back from the "FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH".

In 1947 an arab shepherd boy threw a rock into a cave and heard a breaking sound. Went he investigated he found a container with scrolls in it. This was the beginning of the discovery of the DEAD SEA SCROLLS. These scrolls had been "hidden" for 2000 years in these caves! Think of that----during ALL OF THAT TIME---2000 YEARS---no one had ever stumbled upon them. How can that be? it is ONLY because God did not want them found until IT WAS TIME--HIS TIME. God PROVED through these scrolls that He HAS PRESERVED HIS WORD since the Jews last existed. Isaiah is virtually the same in our Bibles as it is in the scrolls! God preserved his Holy Word.

A year later, in 1948 the Jewish nation of Israel was reborn. God PROVED through this that he had PRESERVED HIS PEOPLE for 2000 years also! He preserved His WORD, and He preserved His PEOPLE---and they both re-appeared after 2000 YEARS just ONE YEAR APART. That was a virtual MIRACLE! When the nation of Israel was reborn on May 14, 1948 the clock started ticking for the return of Christ. It was the first step of his return to this earth.

Israel is FAR FROM PERFECT. They are mostly in unbelief at this time. But that doesn't mean that God cannot restore them or use them. God has a PURPOSE for them. He may be displeased with them right now, just as he was in the past so much of the time! But they are FULFILLING HIS PURPOSE in the earth. The day will come where they will ALL TURN TO JESUS and they will know that Jesus is THE MESSIAH and that they REJECTED him. Zechariah says they will weep and mourn when they realize what they have done! They will turn to Him and the Millenium will begin. When the Millenium begins Satan will be chained in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, and the earth will have a 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon it. Evil will not be completely gone---but the influence of Satan will be removed for 1000 years. The earth will be mostly peaceful and joyous until the thousand years are over.

But Satan knows (Jesus already defeated him on the cross) that when the Jews completely receive Jesus that will be when he is chained for 1000 years. So he is trying to destroy the Jews off the face of the earth so they cannot repent and turn to their Messiah. He tried in a massive way during 1940-1945---6 million Jews were murdered. But look at what God DID----- 3 years after this attempted holocaust God brought His People back to their land!!! And they will NEVER BE REMOVED AGAIN. God has fulfilled his promise from Isaiah 11----and we are alive to see it!!! We are people truly blessed! We can point to a map and see a country called 'ISRAEL" there---incredible!!! God has fulfilled His promise. Jesus will return to this earth shortly. Just as sure as he came the first time--He will come the second time!! Hallelujah!!

 

[miamited]

Well, do you think we should have allowed Nazi Germany with Adolf Hitler leading it to get the bomb and use it. Of course not, you try to keep such things from happening as far as you can.

Look, the issue that I'm bringing up doesn't have anything to do with what I think that you think people should be 'allowed' to do. Do you think that people should be allowed to gamble? Do you think that people should be allowed to have immoral sexual relations?

People groups have differences all the time all over the globe and are often at war over some other nation telling them that they can't do what they're doing. Ukraine and Russia are fighting because Russia wanted to make Ukraine give up some of its claimed land. Ukraine refused and war came of it. They were two countries trying to impose their will on the other. Israel wants any possible trace of the group known as Hamas out of the territory that is completely inside their own borders. They are at war now to impose the will of Israel against the will of their people, or at least those who are in charge of their fighting forces. Hamas being in the territory of Gaza is the same thing as the greatest early war maneuver of the Trojan Horse. Set up your enemy within the very midst of your cities.

My issue is about whether or not any nation really has the right and authority to tell another nation what they can do. And not just on things that nobody does, but on things that other people groups of the world get to do? My issue is that I'm trying to look at it from the other side. Of course we can! So, I'm the leader of a nation in the middle east and I know that the people of my nation have always had a contentious relationship. With claims of attacks back and forth for at least the last 75 years.

Now, that nation has more nukes than any other nation on the face of the earth and that nation is the only nation on the face of the earth that has ever used them. No! I don't like the people!! I've been taught to hate them and my religious leader sees them as their being worthy of death as infidels! So, this is me living in the middle east and this is what I'm thinking as the leader of that people.

"I need to be prepared for an attack against us that might include nuclear weapons because my perceived enemy has practically inexhaustible supplies of them and they've actually used them once when they were overpowering a nation."

So then I sit back and I ask myself, "How can I work with this neighbor nation to keep them from continuing to work towards that goal?"

So you think on it and you come up with this idea that this neighboring nation should be bombed into submission because that's sure to give them a feeling of confidence and surety you wouldn't ever use your nuclear weapons against them. Yeah. That's what I'll do! I'll cower them into submission and they'll be just fine and accept that.

Or, you work with and through the leader of that nation to come to agreement of covenant of what each one will and won't work to do. Which is what we had at one time and I understand everyone says it doesn't work, but no one has as yet found any nuclear weapons grade material within the border of that country. So, if that's what their goal is, then something was working to keep them from attaining that goal before. That covenant also provided other nations the opportunity to send in inspectors to see what was going on. Now, they can close any door that they want and are under no agreement to show you anything.

But my overall point is that God hasn't given any of the authority to rule all the people of the world through the desires of one man or even one nation. Nations, by definition are sovereign places where the only rule that counts within their borders is the rule of the person or group that has been given authority to rule over them.

So, I believe that to achieve the goal, at least for any long range planning, we should work with our neighbors as best we can. Of course, God would tell us to do this: Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." Because we have no right to tell another or make another nation do something that it adamantly doesn't want to do. That leads to warlike disagreements.

I'm all for doing what we can to stop something from happening that might be a disaster for others. I just think it can be done through covenants of agreement as we had before. And I know that because I also know that there is no sovereign nation that can by force get another nation to bow to its will through bloodshed and war over something that, as of yet, hadn't even developed yet, the most important part needed for the object that we want to go to war over and kill possibly thousands of people.

 

[ezrider]

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the SECOND TIME to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, AND FROM THE ISLANDS OF THE SEA.

Yes, this happened 2000 years ago, when Jesus and his disciples were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It was the house of Israel who was scattered by the Assyrians, not the house of Judah. Need to keep your houses straight.

And it shall come to pass in that day... What day was that?

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse,
which shall stand for an ensign of the people;
to it shall the Gentiles seek:
and his rest shall be glorious.

Jesus is the root of Jesse, the ensign to the people, and a light to the gentiles.

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[Fish153]

Yes, this happened 2000 years ago, when Jesus and his disciples were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It was the house of Israel who was scattered by the Assyrians, not the house of Judah. Need to keep your houses straight.

And it shall come to pass in that day... What day was that?

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse,
which shall stand for an ensign of the people;
to it shall the Gentiles seek:
and his rest shall be glorious.

Jesus is the root of Jesse, the ensign to the people, and a light to the gentiles.

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

No. That did not happen two thousand years ago. Were people retrieved from the "four corners of the earth" 2000 years ago, or from "the islands of the sea"? as Isaiah 11 states? No---they were not. You believe that Satan has ALREADY been bound for 1000 years. That is incorrect. His binding is a FUTURE event. it will happen when the Millenium begins. Isaiah 11 is talking about a distant future re-gathering of Israel---which we are now living in. The nation Israel was reborn on May 14,1948. And it is now very close to Jesus' return to earth.

 

[ezrider]

No. That did not happen two thousand years ago. Were people retrieved from the "four corners of the earth" 2000 years ago, or from "the islands of the sea"? as Isaiah 11 states? No---they were not.

Since he gave your post a like I will tag miamited for this response as well.

It is shame that Jesus Christ is not the chief cornerstone and foundation of your faith, but instead a stone of stumbling as you stumble at the word itself (1Peter 2:8). It is clear the foundation of your faith resides in the modern state of Israel. Your beliefs concerning the modern state of Israel have made you susceptible to this great mystery and a partaker in the blindness given to her.

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

2 Corinthians 3:13-16
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.



Isaiah 11:11 does NOT say he would RETRIEVE his people from the four corners and bring them back to the Levant. The passage that you quoted says that he will RECOVER the remnant of his people.


Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day,
that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time
to recover the remnant of his people,
which shall be left, from Assyria,
and from Egypt, and from Pathros,
and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar,
and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Recover, from the Hebrew, reference: Bible Study Tools

qānâ​

kaw-naw'
Parts of SpeechVerb

qānâ Definition​

1. to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
   1. (Qal)
      1. to get, acquire, obtain 1a
   2. of God originating, creating, redeeming His people1a
      1. possessor 1a
   3. of Eve acquiring 1a
   4. of acquiring knowledge, wisdom
      1. to buy
   5. (Niphal) to be bought
   6. (Hiphil) to cause to possess

Jesus redeemed the remnant of his people at the cross, the potters field purchased for 30 pieces of silver.

 

[miamited]

Recover, from the Hebrew, reference: Bible Study Tools

Mornin' ezrider

So, you're thinking these things have already happened based on your understanding of the word 'recover'? That the use of the word recover negates the words 'from the islands of the sea', and the other seven nations specifically mentioned. Is it possible that you can tell us when this event actually happened that God 'recovered' His people from seven nations and the islands of the sea? What historical evidence is there that this event happened according to your timeline?

 

[ezrider]

Is it possible that you can tell us when this event actually happened that God 'recovered' His people from seven nations and the islands of the sea?

I have already told you when that happened.

What historical evidence is there that this event happened according to your timeline?

What evidence do you have of the crucifixion?

 

[miamited]

Hey ezrider

I have the same evidence of the crucifixion that I have of God calling His people Israel back from seven nations and the islands of the sea. I trust that both of them are true.

 

[ezrider]

Hey ezrider

I have the same evidence of the crucifixion that I have of God calling His people Israel back from seven nations and the islands of the sea. I trust that both of them are true.

NO Ted. You DON'T.

You have absolutely NO evidence that the crucifixion ever happened. But you do use the modern state of Israel to provide your evidence towards the other.