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We Are In The END TIME!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Elijah674
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We are speaking of spiritual matters, here, are we not? Let's not get too combative.
The point is, if you want to learn about history, you learn it from one of those "uninspired" history books. If you want to learn about science, you learn it from one of those "uninspired" science books. In other words, truth is where you find it, because all truth is God's truth.

If there is truth in the writings of Josephus or Tacitus, who are you to dismiss it?

If there is truth in Rabbinical writings, who are you to dismiss it?

I think that's a fair question. Do you think I'm too stupid not to judge what I read outside the Bible against the Bible???

Or should we simply ban then burn all those other "treacherous, uninspired writings" and revel in glorious ignorance?

Find truth where you will but please don't presume to judge my search for God's truth.

I'm sorry, but you dismissed everything else I wrote in that post simply to lecture me on "uninspired writings???"

Vic C. wrote on another thread that his views on eschatology were changed by reading Newton! Have you treated him the same way you treated me???

Just wondering.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Non-combatively Yours. :thumbsup
 
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If it bothers you for someone to point out that historians do not produce God-breathed material, that is something that needs to be worked on. I am not treating you in any way other than I would speak to a brother in Christ. It is indeed treacherous to seek the Truth of God about something only He speaks about with authority, because we in our easily influenced minds can become confused or led astray.

Holy Spirit has the power to teach us all truth.
He says so, and I believe Him.

John 16:13 NLT
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.


Now, that said, I do like what you wrote at the end of your post in question. The most important thing of all is already accomplished, and that is our Saviour has bought our pardon on Calvary.
 
If it bothers you for someone to point out that historians do not produce God-breathed material, that is something that needs to be worked on.

You do understand that everything in the Bible is true but not everything that's true is in the Bible, don't you? :shame

It is indeed treacherous to seek the Truth of God about something only He speaks about with authority, because we in our easily influenced minds can become confused or led astray.

And so history that's not in the Bible is toxic to the mind and soul of a believer?

Understanding how Jews view their history and religion is toxic to the mind and soul of the believer???

Please don't presume to judge this workman and I won't presume to judge you.
 
You do understand that everything in the Bible is true but not everything that's true is in the Bible, don't you? :shame



And so history that's not in the Bible is toxic to the mind and soul of a believer?

Understanding how Jews view their history and religion is toxic to the mind and soul of the believer???

Please don't presume to judge this workman and I won't presume to judge you.

All I am saying is that we mustn't look for Biblical or spiritual truth outside of God's inspired word.
 
All I am saying is that we mustn't look for Biblical or spiritual truth outside of God's inspired word.
And I disagree. That which we find outside the Bible that agrees with the Bible can certainly add to our knowledge of the Bible.

There are many commentaries and archaeological sources - for instance - that are not part of the canon of scripture yet they add to our knowledge of the Bible immeasurably.

Quite frankly, I've often heard this admonition from people on other boards who are really quite ignorant. My suspicion is that they use this view to excuse their laziness when it comes to studying the Bible.

For my part, I will pursue God's truth wherever it may be found. To do any less would be a waste of the brain God gave me.
 
But my point for posting that was that I was impressed, for one, that even a ***Beep*** atheist understood Jesus' words.
I'm not so sure he understood Jesus' words.

And frankly, that person died in their sins partly do to the Christians not believing in their own Savior's words.
How so?
 
But that's equally true of many in the church. We've gotten away from traditional methods of reading and interpreting scripture, and have replaced much of our eschatology with books like "The Late Great Planet Earth", "Left Behind", and movies like "End of Days", The Seventh Sign" and "The Omen."
But yet you promote reading history books, etc. to help you interpret scripture - this seems like a contradiction in your argument. Prepare to take some flack for this!

But not from me. For instance, as I was reading (and this was over 20 years ago), an article in Scientific American about the "Big Bang", I was moved in that, in the 20-some pages of intensely technical and mathematical writing - I realized that what the author was describing seemed to be VERY close to what I read in early Genesis.

Amusingly, I later read diatribes, some of them quite snotty, by scientists who began to criticize "the Big Bang" because even THEY saw it's similarity to early Genesis, seems they could not support any science that sounded uncomfortably like verses from the Bible!

It was obvious, as I read this article years ago, that when scientists "looked back in time" they were seeing the moment of creation. Oddly enough, my faith (and even understanding of early genesis), became stronger due to reading a Scientific American article!
 
All I am saying is that we mustn't look for Biblical or spiritual truth outside of God's inspired word.
I am forced to agree with you, but what our friend here HAS illustrated is what I tried to illustrate in my post above - truth is truth, and all truth is GOD'S truth.

Science, mathematics - it's all God's truth. His math or science is no different than MIT's. Clearly, MIT is not INVENTING math or science, but discovering His math and/or science.
 

Holy Spirit has the power to teach us all truth.
He says so, and I believe Him.

John 16:13 NLT
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

That is perfectly consistent with what Stormcrow is saying. Only the Holy Spirit can tell you the future. However, of the past you can learn from many regular everyday human sources. Do you disbelieve everything you've read aboot Canadian history? Any Canadian history you've read could not possibly have been 'God breathed'. Is it all false?

Perhaps the Spirit of truth would guide you to another lesser source for a particular truth.
 
But that's equally true of many in the church. We've gotten away from traditional methods of reading and interpreting scripture, and have replaced much of our eschatology with books like "The Late Great Planet Earth", "Left Behind", and movies like "End of Days", The Seventh Sign" and "The Omen."

But yet you promote reading history books, etc. to help you interpret scripture

It's the difference between historical fact and Hollywood fiction. I wouldn't equate Flavius Josephus - who was an eyewitness to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem - to Hal Lindsey.

The point I was trying to make - if inelegantly - was that too much of the church's understanding of scripture seems to come from the latter rather than the former.
 
@Pizzaguy and Alabaster:

The following is a very clear example of how extra-Biblical resources can lead to a fuller understanding of the Bible:

But there was an Egyptian false prophet that did the Jews more mischief than the former; for he was a cheat, and pretended to be a prophet also, and got together thirty thousand men that were deluded by him; these he led round about from the wilderness to the mount which was called the Mount of Olives, and was ready to break into Jerusalem by force from that place; and if he could but once conquer the Roman garrison and the people, he intended to domineer over them by the assistance of those guards of his that were to break into the city with him.

But Felix prevented his attempt, and met him with his Roman soldiers, while all the people assisted him in his attack upon them, insomuch that when it came to a battle, the Egyptian ran away, with a few others, while the greatest part of those that were with him were either destroyed or taken alive; but the rest of the multitude were dispersed every one to their own homes, and there concealed themselves.

Flavius Josephus, The Works of Flavius Josephus, trans. William Whiston (Hartford, CN: S. S. Scranton, 1905), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 700.

Now, here's where secular history meets Biblical truth:

{37} As Paul was about to be brought into the barracks, he said to the commander, "May I say something to you?" And he *said, "Do you know Greek? {38} "Then you are not the Egyptian who some time ago stirred up a revolt and led the four thousand men of the Assassins out into the wilderness?" {39} But Paul said, "I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people." Acts 21:37-39 (NASB)

This is just one example. The "four thousand men of the Assassins" would have been a subgroup of the larger 30,000 man group of followers the Egyptian had gathered around him. These were members of the Sicarii, also described in Josephus.

For what it's worth. :thumbsup
 
It's the difference between historical fact and Hollywood fiction. I wouldn't equate Flavius Josephus - who was an eyewitness to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem - to Hal Lindsey.

The point I was trying to make - if inelegantly - was that too much of the church's understanding of scripture seems to come from the latter rather than the former.
:clap <-- On all counts.
 
Hey Pizzaguy and Alabaster:

If you liked that little blurb from Josephus, check this out!

Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.

Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year.

Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.

At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple.

Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies.

So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them.

Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."

But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city.

However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" And when Albinus (for he was then our procurator) asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him.

Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow, "Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force, "Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!" And just as he added at the last, "Woe, woe to myself also!" there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.

Flavius Josephus, The Works of Flavius Josephus, trans. William Whiston (Hartford, CN: S. S. Scranton, 1905), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 848.
I first discovered Josephus on the web doing research on Daniel 8. I found his works so fascinating and informative, I downloaded Bible Explorer 4 (free), and the Complete Works of Flavius Josephus for it (it was also free).

I don't think any library is complete without Josephus and Foxe's Book of Martyrs, the latter being critically important for understanding what the early church was going through.

Peace. Out. :thumbsup
 
Anyone who doesn't believe in God cannot believe in Jesus.

Russell didn't understand Jesus' words at all.

And how could he? it is impossible for the unspiritual to understand the spiritual they cannot receive the things of the spirit without having the spirit to give them understanding and discernment.

p.s.I told you I would be following you;)
 
Studying uninspired writings for truth is treacherous, to say the very least. The truth is found in Scripture, and the only thing we need to do is ask Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to our spirits, and search the WORD. He will.


Amen sista!!!
 
Please point me to the passage in scripture that reveals the law of gravity or the physics of flight. (If you can't find them in the Bible, might I suggest some of those "treacherous, uninspired writings?")

Looking forward to your prompt response. :thumbsup


Good grief, I am sure that the poster was referring to spiritual things not worldy things,that have no bearing on our understanding of God.

That would be like a doctor seeking knowledge from a book about unicorns, that would also be treacherous.
 
Studying uninspired writings for truth is treacherous, to say the very least.
Amen sista!!!
Truth is where you find it and I believe all truth is God's truth. The idea that we shouldn't go beyond the Bible to understand the Bible is ridiculous and - IMHO - is little more than an excuse to be lazy.

Do you know how many archaeological books have been written about Biblical times? How many commentaries? If you think those works are "treacherous", then I suggest people put down the newspaper and encyclopedia!

It's a shame to see ignorance lauded as virtue. :shame
 
Truth is where you find it and I believe all truth is God's truth. The idea that we shouldn't go beyond the Bible to understand the Bible is ridiculous and - IMHO - is little more than an excuse to be lazy.

Do you know how many archaeological books have been written about Biblical times? How many commentaries? If you think those works are "treacherous", then I suggest people put down the newspaper and encyclopedia!

It's a shame to see ignorance lauded as virtue. :shame

I agree with you Stormcrow.

God wants us educated, knowledgeable, informed!


But, I do at times warn against some writings. I warn those who primarily read the expositors of doctrine & do not truly study scripture for themselves.
 
God wants us educated, knowledgeable, informed!

{2} And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2 (NASB)

God cares as much about our minds as He does our souls. :thumbsup
 
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