We are NOT in the End Times

[Hitch]

No one knows when Jesus will return. But prophecies are being fulfilled as we speak and they do not have to happen in a certain order for him to return. In my opinion I think he will return when we are in our most desperate times. What happens when your children are suffering? You save them. So when we are at the point when us his children are suffering then the command will be given for him to return but these are just my viewpoints.

Has there been a time in church history that some of His were not suffering?

 

[MarkT]

i dont think we even can understand what the time of gentiles fully mean. when it will end and how. its not meant for us to know. only hints are given.

Whether it is given for you to know, I don't know. Try doing what he said. "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates." Mt. 24:32-33 If you do that then maybe you will know what generation he is referring to when he says, Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Whether it is his generation or another I'll leave it up to you to decide, however it will be the last generation before the coming of the Son of man and the terrible Day of the LORD.

There were some even in Paul's time who were saying the resurrection was past already. So the ones who are saying it now are not new. Stay with your first impression Jason. It's the right one.

 

[Stormcrow]

Whether it is given for you to know, I don't know. Try doing what he said. "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates." Mt. 24:32-33 If you do that then maybe you will know what generation he is referring to when he says, Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Whether it is his generation or another I'll leave it up to you to decide, however it will be the last generation before the coming of the Son of man and the terrible Day of the LORD.

There were some even in Paul's time who were saying the resurrection was past already. So the ones who are saying it now are not new. Stay with your first impression Jason. It's the right one.

How about just reading what the Word says?

{29} "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [Was He talking to any other generation here???] For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, {30} and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' {31} "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. {32} "Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. {33} "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

{34} "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, {35} so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. {36} "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:29-36 (NASB)

These were the same folks asking Him for a sign earlier in the gospels and here He is, again, confronting them.

"This generation" clearly refers to those people who were standing right there in front of Him!

This is the same generation mentioned in the parable of the fig tree (and all the trees in Luke). It was the generation that crucified Him and persecuted to death the apostles He sent to them!

And - once more - how do we know this for sure?

{24} "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." Revelation 18:24 (NASB)

Rome killed NT witnesses for Jesus. Babylon may have killed a prophet or two. Only one city ever killed both the prophets of the OT and the apostles of the New:

Jerusalem.

It was judged in 70 AD for this, just as it had been in 587 BC.

Not my words: Christ's.

 

[Stormcrow]

These are the times of the Gentiles, Jason. Don't reject me just because I don't sound Jewish. My understanding doesn't depend on your culture at all. Sorry. I don't mean to offend; but God is greater than your culture. And if I understand the Scriptures, it is God's will and not my own doing. Don't be jealous of your younger brother.

Everything is given its own time. There are things the disciples heard that they did not understand that I understand. So some things were meant for this time, for us, and some things were meant for them, for their time. That's why I say what I say.

Hubris. :bigfrown

 

[jasoncran]

why would jesus tell them to look at signs for his coming if it wasnt for them?

man even my pastor gets that right. and he is dispy!i have never claimed that i have got it all figured out, but i do believe that jesus mainly telling the jews and the christians of a local judgment.

 

[Stormcrow]

why would jesus tell them to look at signs for his coming if it wasnt for them?

man even my pastor gets that right. and he is dispy!i have never claimed that i have got it all figured out, but i do believe that jesus mainly telling the jews and the christians of a local judgment.

Jesus was a Jew (born of a woman, born under the Law) sent to save the lost sheep of Israel.

So why should it come as a surprise to anyone that His prophecies revolved around the Temple and the covenant people? He was operating in the same spirit of prophecy God had given Isaiah, Joel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Amos, and Hosea (to name a few.)

Each one of these OT prophets prophesied of judgment against Jerusalem (and Israel), too.

Jesus was a Jew. All of His apostles were Jews. Why wouldn't the end of the Jewish Temple-based religion signify the end of their world and be described in language befitting such an earth-shattering change?

 

[jasoncran]

imho there are some unfilled prophecies but im not at the level nor have the time to defend them. i need to read up on those.

i do believe that jesus will come to judge all men on the earth and put an end to the curse of sin from adam. death will be no more. sorrow etc. that hasnt happened.

 

[Elijah674]

why would jesus tell them to look at signs for his coming if it wasnt for them?

man even my pastor gets that right. and he is dispy!i have never claimed that i have got it all figured out, but i do believe that jesus mainly telling the jews and the christians of a local judgment.

If one believes (truely believes the Word) Inspiration, this is what you can weigh the bible contents with. The verses are either true or false! (even down to Matt. 24:14 second time prophecy!)

Eccl. 1:9-10
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

(There is nothing salvational that is not to be repeated, even down to the Heb. 6:6 'spiritual' re/cruifixion of Christ. The very few times that it does not happen has been told us.. such as the world flood & that sin will not arise a second time. Nah.1:9)
Eccl. 3:14-15
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, (or says!) it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
[15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

(The Virgin Fold of Christ? Your House IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE. And Laodicea of Rev. 2:16?? [SPEWED OUT]. Both became the Rev. 3:9's SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN. In other words, when Christ was put out, who immediately replaced Him?? Note Isa. 5:3 + 'we have NO KING' but Ceasar!)

Gen. 41:32
[32] And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, [[and God will shortly bring it to pass]].

The dream?? It matters not what 'the thing' is, this is as God documents, DOUBLED TWICE! And the Eccl. verses say what to you? Not once, but OVER & OVER AGAIN. (even down to the time of the mark of the beast)
And God will now shortly bring what to pass?? Check out old Israel's 'seven times' of their Midnight Cry in Matt. 25's parable for Laodicea.

And Matt. 24 is [[[ALL TO BE DOCUMENTED REPEAT'S!]]] (even for what now comes on from verse 21 on!;)

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

imho there are some unfilled prophecies but im not at the level nor have the time to defend them. i need to read up on those.

i do believe that jesus will come to judge all men on the earth and put an end to the curse of sin from adam. death will be no more. sorrow etc. that hasnt happened.

That is excellent understanding.

s

 

[jasoncran]

If one believes (truely believes the Word) Inspiration, this is what you can weigh the bible contents with. The verses are either true or false! (even down to Matt. 24:14 second time prophecy!)

Eccl. 1:9-10
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

(There is nothing salvational that is not to be repeated, even down to the Heb. 6:6 'spiritual' re/cruifixion of Christ. The very few times that it does not happen has been told us.. such as the world flood & that sin will not arise a second time. Nah.1:9)
Eccl. 3:14-15
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, (or says!) it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
[15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

(The Virgin Fold of Christ? Your House IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE. And Laodicea of Rev. 2:16?? [SPEWED OUT]. Both became the Rev. 3:9's SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN. In other words, when Christ was put out, who immediately replaced Him?? Note Isa. 5:3 + 'we have NO KING' but Ceasar!)

Gen. 41:32
[32] And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, [[and God will shortly bring it to pass]].

The dream?? It matters not what 'the thing' is, this is as God documents, DOUBLED TWICE! And the Eccl. verses say what to you? Not once, but OVER & OVER AGAIN. (even down to the time of the mark of the beast)
And God will now shortly bring what to pass?? Check out old Israel's 'seven times' of their Midnight Cry in Matt. 25's parable for Laodicea.

And Matt. 24 is [[[ALL TO BE DOCUMENTED REPEAT'S!]]] (even for what now comes on from verse 21 on!;)

--Elijah

sorry as much i as like adam clarke and and the reformers. i dont and cant see the rcc as the beast or false prophet.

now then can you defend your position on the idea that the gentiles were to do the law?

the shabat was given at horeb not to adam. noah, or abraham.

and it was done as in fullfilled in christ at the cross. he is our shabat.

 

[smaller]

sorry as much i as like adam clarke and and the reformers. i dont and cant see the rcc as the beast or false prophet.

It's a problem 'wherever' one tries to dialog with an SDAer. Drop in the marble at the top and it can only result in landing in the same place every time. Sabbath keeping, condemnation to others automatically if they don't do it like they do, RCC anti-Christ, and no eating pork.

And regardless of what the Word might say to the contrary of their views, it doesn't matter. The marble can't reason or go anywhere else.

No offense intended in the above. It's just comes with the territory.

s

 

[Fedusenko]

Well, as I was raised an SDAer I will say you are incorrect. I took in swine, crustation, caffeine and I was not condemned for it by my family, my church, friends or even myself.

SDAers do not believe they are the only one's going to heaven. My grandfather had a good sense of humor and he always had a joke about his own faith. "I got up to heaven and Peter was showing us around when I heard a bunch of singing and raucous going on behind a door so I asked Peter what all that was about. Peter just gestured dismissively to the door and said, "Oh, that's the Church of Christ folks. They have their own room because they think they are the only ones getting into heaven."

Many of the SDAers you are referring to follow those thing in faith, not in law. They tithe in faith. They keep their temple of God (bodies) clean (healthy) in faith. You might fall asleep before they get done praying at their bedside. They do things because they believe it to be good, not because they think it buys them salvation. I am not saying they have it all right or they started off correctly. The great disappointment is proof of this, but as I recall all these denominations contain false doctrines. You are no Sectarian Christian just like me, but don't don't allow knowledge get in the way of wisdom.

Stop with this apostate church business (smaller didn't mention this in his post, but it's mentioned elsewhere)! All of them are apostate churches, Baptists, Prespertarian, Church of Christ, RCC. There is only one true congregation and that is the one that follows Christ. Any church that teaches one thing other than the truth IS the anti-christ. "The devil only tells lies when they are almost true." 99% truth and 1% lie still makes it 100% untrue. How can there be so many theologies and churches? It's all a circus.

 

[jasoncran]

my mil is sda, we have some of that discussion.

if was going to be "kosher" then messianic judiasm here i come. since im of the seed of abraham it would be best thing to do in that sense but christ gave us liberty to follow the law and feasts or not to. see romans 14.

i may skip easter this year and do passover.

 

[smaller]

Well, as I was raised an SDAer I will say you are incorrect. I took in swine, crustation, caffeine and I was not condemned for it by my family, my church, friends or even myself.

SDAers do not believe they are the only one's going to heaven. My grandfather had a good sense of humor and he always had a joke about his own faith. "I got up to heaven and Peter was showing us around when I heard a bunch of singing and raucous going on behind a door so I asked Peter what all that was about. Peter just gestured dismissively to the door and said, "Oh, that's the Church of Christ folks. They have their own room because they think they are the only ones getting into heaven."

Many of the SDAers you are referring to follow those thing in faith, not in law. They tithe in faith. They keep their temple of God (bodies) clean (healthy) in faith. You might fall asleep before they get done praying at their bedside. They do things because they believe it to be good, not because they think it buys them salvation. I am not saying they have it all right or they started off correctly. The great disappointment is proof of this, but as I recall all these denominations contain false doctrines. You are no Sectarian Christian just like me, but don't don't allow knowledge get in the way of wisdom.

A certain 'fact' of the SDA practice is to bring forth the condemnation of other believers being 'sinners' who don't practice as they practice and believe as they believe. If the marbles don't fall into their slots, you are in fact a sinner standing at the gate of eternal death. That's just the way they have to roll and there is no getting by their forced condemnation that they bring to other believers in this so called practice of faith. They will just have to live with those conclusions.

I CONDEMN NONE OF THEM as believers. Zero. They are free to believe what they want to. But I am not going to get sucked into their views on The RCC system/people as the beast/anti-Christ/false prophet regiment as I can not see the truth in that sling whatsoever, period. It's just another practice of condemnation to other believers. This is prohibited by my 'faith.' WE all see only in part. This is a fact of 'faith.'

Stop with this apostate church business (smaller didn't mention this in his post, but it's mentioned elsewhere)! All of them are apostate churches, Baptists, Prespertarian, Church of Christ, RCC. There is only one true congregation and that is the one that follows Christ. Any church that teaches one thing other than the truth IS the anti-christ. "The devil only tells lies when they are almost true." 99% truth and 1% lie still makes it 100% untrue. How can there be so many theologies and churches? It's all a circus.

A circus for sure. But I have a great HOPE not only for myself, but for ALL other believers regardless of the positions they hold or the measures they put forth for those outside their sects. This is the reward that God in Christ has given me internally to 'practice.'

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Fedusenko]

I am baking my noodle on this certain 'fact' and I can not recall a single instance of this being preached. I looked it up in the Statements of Faith on their website and that simple 'fact' is not there. You might have heard this 'fact' from the mouth of an individual, but that is something different and must be separated from the community.

I believe this 'fact' is not of SDAers, but self-righteous, fire and brimstone sidewalk preachers who have a vast misunderstanding of love and practice a social ineptness that renders them ineffective and belligerent. They are in all churches. They are in all faiths.

 

[smaller]

I am baking my noodle on this certain 'fact' and I can not recall a single instance of this being preached. I looked it up in the Statements of Faith on their website and that simple 'fact' is not there. You might have heard this 'fact' from the mouth of an individual, but that is something different and must be separated from the community.

I believe this 'fact' is not of SDAers, but self-righteous, fire and brimstone sidewalk preachers who have a vast misunderstanding of love and practice a social ineptness that renders them ineffective and belligerent. They are in all churches. They are in all faiths.

It has been conveyed to me by several SDA'ers (not saying it is their official doctrine) that if one does not 'Sabbath keep' as they see it, other believers are factually sinning by not doing so and are therefore condemned as sinners at peril of eternal death. I haven't had any outright cast me in, but that's pretty close. And of course many 'sects' practice this same measure in different ways. Baptists for example for the 'non fully immersed,' RCC'ers for not bowing to their every jot and tittle of traditions and findings of their multitude of 'council' determinations, not having 4 additional words in a statement of faith from the E.O., on and on the list goes.

I grew rather weary of these practices of faith long ago and put them away from my own heart as I do not view any of those measures as truthful or beneficial to my insides.

Of course this also led to an entirely different view of 'end times' for me as well.

I know for a fact the 'time' of the devil and his messengers grows progressively shorter and in the end, there will be both a division of those working entities from within mankind, and an final execution of sentencing performed by God In Christ.

I look forward to that Great Day, even while the sin and evil of the tempter that I factually carry 'fears and trembles.'

The Kingdom of Heaven is like a seed which is buried in the ground, and after a time, it springs up out of that darkness, how, we do not know.

enjoy!

s

 

[jasoncran]

:eeeekkknah smaller cant be jason777 on another forum.

 

[smaller]

:eeeekkknah smaller cant be jason777 on another forum.

Nope...I've posted as smaller for more than a decade at various boards. I also post sometimes and places as 'squint.'

Self deprecation is my bag...:yes

 

[reba]

I am baking my noodle on this certain 'fact' and I can not recall a single instance of this being preached. I looked it up in the Statements of Faith on their website and that simple 'fact' is not there. You might have heard this 'fact' from the mouth of an individual, but that is something different and must be separated from the community.

I believe this 'fact' is not of SDAers, but self-righteous, fire and brimstone sidewalk preachers who have a vast misunderstanding of love and practice a social ineptness that renders them ineffective and belligerent. They are in all churches. They are in all faiths.

All denominations have the main stream and the edges.. My f-i-L was 'relaxed' SDA His Mother thought he was going to hell because of it... We are all people with views and headaches..

 

[MarkT]

How about just reading what the Word says?

{29} "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [Was He talking to any other generation here???] For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, {30} and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' {31} "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. {32} "Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. {33} "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

{34} "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, {35} so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. {36} "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:29-36 (NASB)

These were the same folks asking Him for a sign earlier in the gospels and here He is, again, confronting them.

"This generation" clearly refers to those people who were standing right there in front of Him!

This is the same generation mentioned in the parable of the fig tree (and all the trees in Luke). It was the generation that crucified Him and persecuted to death the apostles He sent to them!

And - once more - how do we know this for sure?

{24} "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." Revelation 18:24 (NASB)

Rome killed NT witnesses for Jesus. Babylon may have killed a prophet or two. Only one city ever killed both the prophets of the OT and the apostles of the New:

Jerusalem.

It was judged in 70 AD for this, just as it had been in 587 BC.

Not my words: Christ's.

He was speaking to the scribes and the Pharisees. All those things will come upon them at the judgment. But they have not been judged yet. They will be judged on the day of judgment when the dead will be raised and everyone will stand before God. But until the day of judgment, those spirits are being kept in prison.

Likewise the men of Nineveh will arise at the judgment with his generation. Again, that has not happened yet. His coming, the Day of the LORD, the thousand year reign and the resurrection of the dead have to happen before the judgment.

Now we know Jesus' generation was not the last generation since they did not see his coming and it is now at least 70 generations since his generation passed away.