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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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We Must Maintain Our Identity As People Of God.
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
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The Babylon/whore referred to is antithetical/against/opposed to the Spirit, which equates to a call away from fleshly captivity of sin and thus a universal call to believers everywhere no matter what country they are in.
Located where our own feet are planted no matter what country that happens to be.
Thanks for delineating what you thought you saw, Babylon/her as an actual country.
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We can't talk about it, or can we here? It's getting to the point where I'm not interested in bothering to share 'actual written facts in the public domain' because of censorship/intervention.
Quite sad really. Again, antithetical to the Spirit.
But we see it here and everywhere christians post, openly, potentially and perpetually dangling each others over the possibility of eternal damnation in the pits of hell, as if that will make the other believer believe some jot or tittle should be slanted one way or another.
It's a pathetic demonstration, in direct opposition to love one another, but it's tolerated as if it were nothing when it's the absolute lowest form of sin in the flesh. There is no greater hatred that can be "inside" a believer.
Such are, in the now, already in the deepest form of captivity.
Infected on the inside.
I believe they'll be saved anyway, but God will deal with such adversity in the flesh in a heightened fashion, in the flesh, in the now, by various means stipulated in the text. Internal hatred will consume their own flesh. They already have one foot in the grave in the activity above.
We can, right now, observe the open insanity in/of the flesh of the unbelieving populace, looking in just about any direction. Only a blindman would miss it.
Love will be the LAST MAN, STANDING. God in Christ IS LOVE.
1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
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The "judgment" of God came first, to the church. God has been exceptionally patient in tolerating adversity. But there will come an end to the the time that God has allowed for such patience. Wrath will come up into His Nostrils at some point.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
How and when did adverse judgment of God "in the church" begin?
Paul isolated the matter here, even showing us the "sign" of those who bear it in themselves:
Acts 20:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Many of you have seen what happens when we turn "judgment" in "adversity" toward our own flesh, first, and the "grievous wolves" are pinpointed to be in our own flesh. And then they HOWL like madmen, rather than taking in understanding of the contrariness of the flesh, and it's cause.
The flesh is not "fit" for Truth. It is contrary. The flesh of NONE care to hear of it. We are all deeply in love with our own flesh. We'll condemn other flesh, but never our own.
Here is the direction of turning, in the super finale:
Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Without a "basis" for "not loving" our lives there will be no place to turn. The flesh will lead, always to destruction.
The bit will come to the mouth of the horse for every person who tames it with judgment.
There are many "allegories" put forth in the O.T. about the Ways of God that were put forth in the natural, in the EXTERNAL as "ensamples" for our views. Israel riding into the parted Red Sea with the enemies of Israel in "hot pursuits" are one of those pictures.
Pharaoh for example led his armies, horses and chariots into the Red Sea with Israel, following them.
But who really was Pharaoh? Ezekiel pulled the covers off Pharaoh, for our views, here:
Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
Who is the great dragon? Every believer should know this by heart:
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
IF the flesh of any believer thinks it was not included in the deception of the whole world, the flesh is blind. The domain of the adversary is the flesh.
It is Pharaoh who rides the flesh of adversity, FOLLOWING wherever the Word is sown. See Mark 4:15 for the spiritual example of what happens and who follows after the Word. This is an identical picture of the Spiritual reality and disclosure of what was shown at the Red Sea.
Hebron 101. Hebron meaning "associations." It is in Hebron that the fathers of faith took their ruling seat of their own flesh. Why? Because they are ALL buried there. That is the association of "dead flesh" that Paul speaks of often in the N.T. And exactly none of that means a physical city on a spot of ground in the middle east country called the nation/state of Israel.
It was of significance that Abraham wept for his wife Sarah who had died, then buried in Hebron. Gen. 23:2. Where she remains to this day. The Holy Spirit brought this to our attentions, again, in Acts 7:15-16, speaking through Stephen. It was there that all the fathers of faith, were buried, and remain, pertaining their flesh, after having sojourned in EGYPT.
So, yeah, a lot of interesting matters to observe. All quite personally applicable to every person in faith of Christ.
We have all gone down into Egypt here on earth. We have all died here, in our own flesh. And we are, like they, hidden in associations. This was the "territory" that Paul opens for us to view.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
How and when did adverse judgment of God "in the church" begin?
Paul isolated the matter here, even showing us the "sign" of those who bear it in themselves:
Acts 20:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Many of you have seen what happens when we turn "judgment" in "adversity" toward our own flesh, first, and the "grievous wolves" are pinpointed to be in our own flesh. And then they HOWL like madmen, rather than taking in understanding of the contrariness of the flesh, and it's cause.
The flesh is not "fit" for Truth. It is contrary. The flesh of NONE care to hear of it. We are all deeply in love with our own flesh. We'll condemn other flesh, but never our own.
Here is the direction of turning, in the super finale:
Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Without a "basis" for "not loving" our lives there will be no place to turn. The flesh will lead, always to destruction.
The bit will come to the mouth of the horse for every person who tames it with judgment.
There are many "allegories" put forth in the O.T. about the Ways of God that were put forth in the natural, in the EXTERNAL as "ensamples" for our views. Israel riding into the parted Red Sea with the enemies of Israel in "hot pursuits" are one of those pictures.
Pharaoh for example led his armies, horses and chariots into the Red Sea with Israel, following them.
But who really was Pharaoh? Ezekiel pulled the covers off Pharaoh, for our views, here:
Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
Who is the great dragon? Every believer should know this by heart:
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
IF the flesh of any believer thinks it was not included in the deception of the whole world, the flesh is blind. The domain of the adversary is the flesh.
It is Pharaoh who rides the flesh of adversity, FOLLOWING wherever the Word is sown. See Mark 4:15 for the spiritual example of what happens and who follows after the Word. This is an identical picture of the Spiritual reality and disclosure of what was shown at the Red Sea.
Hebron 101. Hebron meaning "associations." It is in Hebron that the fathers of faith took their ruling seat of their own flesh. Why? Because they are ALL buried there. That is the association of "dead flesh" that Paul speaks of often in the N.T. And exactly none of that means a physical city on a spot of ground in the middle east country called the nation/state of Israel.
It was of significance that Abraham wept for his wife Sarah who had died, then buried in Hebron. Gen. 23:2. Where she remains to this day. The Holy Spirit brought this to our attentions, again, in Acts 7:15-16, speaking through Stephen. It was there that all the fathers of faith, were buried, and remain, pertaining their flesh, after having sojourned in EGYPT.
So, yeah, a lot of interesting matters to observe. All quite personally applicable to every person in faith of Christ.
We have all gone down into Egypt here on earth. We have all died here, in our own flesh. And we are, like they, hidden in associations. This was the "territory" that Paul opens for us to view.
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smaller
Member
Romans 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Psalm 105:6
O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Micah 7:20
Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
John 8:
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Psalm 105:6
O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Micah 7:20
Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
John 8:
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
smaller
Member
When we maintain our "identity" is it the SAME identity of the fathers of faith. And this, I do not speak to fleshly understandings.
Believers for example ARE like Jacob. Even like Jacob and his TWIN. There is a first man, a flesh man, who emerges from the womb, and there is the SECOND man, whom God blesses, NOT the first, who also emerges, even held, hand to heel, who usurps the first. And the first is to be the second man's servant, even giving up his "birth right."
This identical matter Paul shows in 1 Cor. 15: 42-49, and this is a picture of Jacob and his twin, first flesh brother, whom God does actually hate. But both "men" are the same person, shown with Jacob as an example. Flesh men will see two separate men. That was never the case to be seen.
Flesh will have a hard time boring into this matter and will not understand, guaranteed.
It will be even harder to see, that we, like Jacob, come before our father of promise as Jacob did, as a liar and a thief and a usurper of his brother, and that man is BLESSED.
This is hard to understand, how God can bless a liar, a thief, even significantly clothed in GOAT skin. But the man who comes before Him with the contrary flesh and speaks TRUTHFULLY of it, is in fact BLESSED with the truth of Jacob.
Believers for example ARE like Jacob. Even like Jacob and his TWIN. There is a first man, a flesh man, who emerges from the womb, and there is the SECOND man, whom God blesses, NOT the first, who also emerges, even held, hand to heel, who usurps the first. And the first is to be the second man's servant, even giving up his "birth right."
This identical matter Paul shows in 1 Cor. 15: 42-49, and this is a picture of Jacob and his twin, first flesh brother, whom God does actually hate. But both "men" are the same person, shown with Jacob as an example. Flesh men will see two separate men. That was never the case to be seen.
Flesh will have a hard time boring into this matter and will not understand, guaranteed.
It will be even harder to see, that we, like Jacob, come before our father of promise as Jacob did, as a liar and a thief and a usurper of his brother, and that man is BLESSED.
This is hard to understand, how God can bless a liar, a thief, even significantly clothed in GOAT skin. But the man who comes before Him with the contrary flesh and speaks TRUTHFULLY of it, is in fact BLESSED with the truth of Jacob.
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Member
Jesus Is Lord of the House of Jacob.
Isaiah 2:5
O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.
When we read of the time of Jacob's trouble, that trouble is to the FLESH man.
Isaiah 58:1
Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
Amos 3:13
Hear ye, and testify in the house of Jacob, saith the Lord God, the God of hosts,
Amos 9:8
Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord.
Luke 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Isaiah 2:5
O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.
When we read of the time of Jacob's trouble, that trouble is to the FLESH man.
Isaiah 58:1
Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
Amos 3:13
Hear ye, and testify in the house of Jacob, saith the Lord God, the God of hosts,
Amos 9:8
Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord.
Luke 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
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Member
No flesh man can see his Spiritual Reality on the adverse side of the ledgers. They are immobilized by their TWIN, who is slated for DEATH. That flesh man will cry to be saved and will not be spared, even with many tears.
Here is the picture of Jacob and Esau. This is the same picture as Isaac and Ishmael, even born from the same father. A first man who will not inherit, and a second man who can not be damned. Abraham himself had TWO sons, both from HIMSELF. One doomed to dust and ashes (Gen. 18:27) and one slated for eternal life. Again, we have external examples in Abraham's sons. We have the IDENTICAL example in Isaac's sons.
Here is Paul's depiction of this SAME matter in FULL UNVEILING LIGHT.
1 Corinthians 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
It is 'impossible' to make the FIRST MAN the SECOND man. It can not be done.
Both reside currently in one place, the first exposed for what that man IS, the second HIDDEN but held "in faith in Jesus Christ" PLANTED by faith in the FIRST MAN who serves the purposes of the Second Man.
Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Here is the picture of Jacob and Esau. This is the same picture as Isaac and Ishmael, even born from the same father. A first man who will not inherit, and a second man who can not be damned. Abraham himself had TWO sons, both from HIMSELF. One doomed to dust and ashes (Gen. 18:27) and one slated for eternal life. Again, we have external examples in Abraham's sons. We have the IDENTICAL example in Isaac's sons.
Here is Paul's depiction of this SAME matter in FULL UNVEILING LIGHT.
1 Corinthians 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
It is 'impossible' to make the FIRST MAN the SECOND man. It can not be done.
Both reside currently in one place, the first exposed for what that man IS, the second HIDDEN but held "in faith in Jesus Christ" PLANTED by faith in the FIRST MAN who serves the purposes of the Second Man.
Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
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Member
When we view matters of end time, that is the END of the flesh man, the sinful kingdom.
It is the end of the natural planting and the unveiling of The Son of Promise.
Every believer who has passed from this first, natural life, already KNOWS this, and they are "released" from that "first man."
At the end however, it will be 'catch up' time for all believers who walk in Truth and the DIVISION will come.
So, it may be good to see that the 'end time' is DIRE, even unto us, in our first NATURAL state of existence.
These are not "little stories" about how bad it's going to be for "the other guys." That much is certain.
It is the end of the natural planting and the unveiling of The Son of Promise.
Every believer who has passed from this first, natural life, already KNOWS this, and they are "released" from that "first man."
At the end however, it will be 'catch up' time for all believers who walk in Truth and the DIVISION will come.
So, it may be good to see that the 'end time' is DIRE, even unto us, in our first NATURAL state of existence.
These are not "little stories" about how bad it's going to be for "the other guys." That much is certain.
smaller
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Most who read of this matters will have their natural man resist these types of disclosures.
Many of you may notice that under the guise of OSAS that the natural man still seeks to save the entirety of himself. That won't happen, guaranteed. It can't happen.
And it's the same old story on the other side of the ledgers. Every natural man will claim their "obedience" and likewise their salvation in such obedience to the natural man. And that won't and can't happen either.
And likewise, every natural man will always try to destroy the other natural men, as this is the way of the natural man. Believers in OSAS will condemn those who are legalist/obedience you can lose your salvation camps, AND vice verse from the other side of the ledgers. All of these natural men are wasting their breath. No amount of correct jots and tittles is going to be capable of saving the first natural man. It can not happen. But they are openly identified in such activity, are they not?
The person in the Spirit of Christ will turn their faces to destruction of the natural man, even to themselves FIRST, in HOPE for the Second Man to EMERGE. The flesh, the natural man however will go kicking and screaming, to it's end.
It can be a somewhat terrifying picture to understand this matter personally or to have God deal with the natural man ADVERSELY, even when we think the natural first man is ALL GOOD, because that is NEVER the case,
and it is often comical, to see natural men trying to bail themselves out, in the Name of God and perfect doctrines, of course.
That will all be flushed down the toilet when the Reality of the Spirit of Christ arrives and is revealed. There will be no flesh men saved by correct doctrines or actions. It won't and can not happen nor does any amount of correct jots and tittles do the FIRST MAN any good.
Paul lays up a DOCTRINE of Priority in 1 Cor. 13. He lays it again in Romans 13:8-10, and further in that chapter showing it is we who are to put off works of darkness. That means we HAVE such to LAY OFF. And this shows us the PATH that the Spirit takes, and that we must then follow. It is as CLEAR as a BELL. We are LED by the LIGHT OF LOVE and we are also led to JUDGE OUR OWN DARKNESS.
1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Now, ask what the CLOTHING OF CHRIST IS. It is LOVE and JUDGMENT, personally applied.
You will see with your own eyes, the necessary CLOTHING.
Now ask how much value all knowledge is by comparison.
His Spirit is FREELY given to anyone who is LED to walk INTO it. And there are TWO EDGES of His Sword, waiting there.
Every flesh man who condemns his brother on the basis of knowledge is wasting their breath and is shown by that action to be the antithesis to The Spirit.
Flesh men will be battling in the churches over as little as the meanings of 4 words or even less, and fall HEADLONG into damnation of each others, not seeing the reality of what counts. The ONLY thing that counts.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Consider this in the assembly of any you join yourselves to.
There is only going to be ONE SURVIVOR. He, from the Everlasting, The Son of God in whom all blessings reside.
Make "associations" there, on His Ground.
Many of you may notice that under the guise of OSAS that the natural man still seeks to save the entirety of himself. That won't happen, guaranteed. It can't happen.
And it's the same old story on the other side of the ledgers. Every natural man will claim their "obedience" and likewise their salvation in such obedience to the natural man. And that won't and can't happen either.
And likewise, every natural man will always try to destroy the other natural men, as this is the way of the natural man. Believers in OSAS will condemn those who are legalist/obedience you can lose your salvation camps, AND vice verse from the other side of the ledgers. All of these natural men are wasting their breath. No amount of correct jots and tittles is going to be capable of saving the first natural man. It can not happen. But they are openly identified in such activity, are they not?
The person in the Spirit of Christ will turn their faces to destruction of the natural man, even to themselves FIRST, in HOPE for the Second Man to EMERGE. The flesh, the natural man however will go kicking and screaming, to it's end.
It can be a somewhat terrifying picture to understand this matter personally or to have God deal with the natural man ADVERSELY, even when we think the natural first man is ALL GOOD, because that is NEVER the case,
and it is often comical, to see natural men trying to bail themselves out, in the Name of God and perfect doctrines, of course.
That will all be flushed down the toilet when the Reality of the Spirit of Christ arrives and is revealed. There will be no flesh men saved by correct doctrines or actions. It won't and can not happen nor does any amount of correct jots and tittles do the FIRST MAN any good.
Paul lays up a DOCTRINE of Priority in 1 Cor. 13. He lays it again in Romans 13:8-10, and further in that chapter showing it is we who are to put off works of darkness. That means we HAVE such to LAY OFF. And this shows us the PATH that the Spirit takes, and that we must then follow. It is as CLEAR as a BELL. We are LED by the LIGHT OF LOVE and we are also led to JUDGE OUR OWN DARKNESS.
1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Now, ask what the CLOTHING OF CHRIST IS. It is LOVE and JUDGMENT, personally applied.
You will see with your own eyes, the necessary CLOTHING.
Now ask how much value all knowledge is by comparison.
His Spirit is FREELY given to anyone who is LED to walk INTO it. And there are TWO EDGES of His Sword, waiting there.
Every flesh man who condemns his brother on the basis of knowledge is wasting their breath and is shown by that action to be the antithesis to The Spirit.
Flesh men will be battling in the churches over as little as the meanings of 4 words or even less, and fall HEADLONG into damnation of each others, not seeing the reality of what counts. The ONLY thing that counts.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Consider this in the assembly of any you join yourselves to.
There is only going to be ONE SURVIVOR. He, from the Everlasting, The Son of God in whom all blessings reside.
Make "associations" there, on His Ground.