We The People

[JohnDB]

Oppression...it's never worked.

The people at large actually either support a government or try to live at odds with them.

Taiwan and Hong Kong have had Westernized governments. Then for one reason or another the Communist Government came back to control these regions.

Now everyone is upset.

What I don't understand is how the Communist Government can not understand that if you don't have people you rule over nothing.

 

[JohnDB]

China covers a huge demographic area. Several languages and cultures make up the population.
And at one time the Government respected those differences but united themselves as "One China". From the Exiles in Taiwan to the UK governed Hong Kong to the Burmese to the border with Russia and the Soviet Union to the Koreans and Viet Nam. We see these as all being Asians but each of these people groups are distinct from each other with huge cultural and language differences.
And yet "One China".

Now, the current regime culture seems to be bent on enforcing one culture, one government, one way to think...

It's not going to work. Tenimen Square?

And where you can use bullets and force to "control" the protesters...it ALWAYS comes back to more trouble in the future. China has always played "the long game" in times past. In other words they have customarily positioned themselves for large gains in the future.
Their Solution for their drug/opium problem is a classic example. They bankrupted all the opium importers by first legalizing and subsidizing domestic opium to where it became cheap and then stopped all production and made it illegal to even be addicted. Death penalty was issued for all opium sellers after a particular date.

It worked...no more drug problem.

China used to play the long game. Not so anymore for some reason.
And I'm not sure as to why. Why are they doing the very things that will incite even more civil unrest? Have they learned nothing from recent history?

 

[Boaz]

Oppression...it's never worked.

The people at large actually either support a government or try to live at odds with them.

Taiwan and Hong Kong have had Westernized governments. Then for one reason or another the Communist Government came back to control these regions.

Now everyone is upset.

What I don't understand is how the Communist Government can not understand that if you don't have people you rule over nothing.

They own everything including the people and the natural resources. It is about power and complete power is having control of all the people, the penalty of rebellion being death. The people in power are extremely wealthy, the people suffer horrendously. So they begin by indoctrination which includes propaganda, out and out lies. Then before you know it free speech is removed, the people are told what they are allowed to say or even think and opposition is punishable with torture, imprisonment and death, and all means of the people being able to defend themselves is removed. It is for that very reason the second amendment is part of our constitution.
Your right though. Eventually it implodes or someone comes to rescue the people.

 

[JohnDB]

What is even more "twisted" is the demographics of Hong Kong itself.
It has more "1%-ers" than anywhere else in the world population. The rich are very rich and everyone else is low comfortable class.
Which lends itself to political influence by the wealthy.

The small business owners (comfortable class poor) are supportive of the free market supporters...but they also are getting attacked and vandalized.

It's a huge mess of mob rule right now with no one able to claim the high moral ground.

 

[Michael74]

Several languages and cultures make up the population.

91.59% of China is Han. The other 55 ethnic groups are a minority. China does not even want most of the minorities, but will tolerate them if they don't rebel. They will be put into reeducation camps if they do rebel, or simply be exiled en masse if they prove intractable.

Assad in Syria has forced millions of Sunni citizens supporting rebels to flee the country. Pol Pot zapped a million dissenters. Stalin zapped 10 million Ukrainians when they rebelled, before WWII even began. Dictators want to remain in power, no matter what.

 

[jasonc]

All the more reason to sewer ties with Peking

 

[jasonc]

All the more reason to sewer ties with Peking

Sever ties ..

 

[JohnDB]

Sever ties ..

I was wondering if...

 

[Michael74]

All the more reason to sewer ties with Peking

China is a rising super power. Their GDP is already ahead of the USA in PPP. They learned that political freedom is not necessary for production, only economic freedom. Meanwhile the USA is going backward with bank central planning of the economy, plus lobbyist nest feathering.

Economic power eventually translates into military power. It takes a few decades to research and build war machines. They have additional war machines each year, while the USA has fewer tanks, ships, and planes each year.

 

[jasonc]

China is a rising super power. Their GDP is already ahead of the USA in PPP. They learned that political freedom is not necessary for production, only economic freedom. Meanwhile the USA is going backward with bank central planning of the economy, plus lobbyist nest feathering.

Economic power eventually translates into military power. It takes a few decades to research and build war machines. They have additional war machines each year, while the USA has fewer tanks, ships, and planes each year.

If China has no communist bank or central planning please show me.

I believe they do .you can't as a simple person without party loyalties visit the us a and learn .plenty of Chinese flags fly in my county ,these speak no English and also are pilots in training .

 

[jasonc]

They control speech ,see the NBA kow tow .

 

[Michael74]

If China has no communist bank or central planning please show me.

Of course they do, but they have a 50% savings rate. They can afford to waste some of their capital on central planning silliness, and still move forward. The USA has a zippo savings rate, so central planning moves the country backward by removing capital from productive use. Millions of empty McMansions in 2008 are one example.

 

[jasonc]

Of course they do, but they have a 50% savings rate. They can afford to waste some of their capital on central planning silliness, and still move forward. The USA has a zippo savings rate, so central planning moves the country backward by removing capital from productive use. Millions of empty McMansions in 2008 are one example.

You might not be aware of how wealthy my,county is.plenty of millionaires move,tear down here,if a home is abandoned for any reason on the beach it sells or is razes.perfectly inhabitable homes are razed to make room,for bigger houses with an increase of return.
Of these I have a few photos

 

[Michael74]

You might not be aware of how wealthy my,county is.plenty of millionaires move,tear down here,if a home is abandoned for any reason on the beach it sells or is razes.perfectly inhabitable homes are razed to make room,for bigger houses with an increase of return.
Of these I have a few photos

I have no problem with the rich building whatever luxury house they want on their own land. Its only when they prevent Joe average from building a modest home on his own land that I object.

 

[Christ_empowered]

im not a fan of communism, but i don't think un-regulated capitalism would work, either. The US version of neoliberal capitalism has caused a lot of problems, here at home.

those who own the corporations, those who run the banks...more and more, they call the shots. I'm --not-- a huge fan of Marx, but he makes some valid points...in capitalism (without some serious gov't regulation+intervention...), the wealth of labor tends to go upstream, to the upper classes. the upper classes...the rich, and definitely the super rich...own the factories, they own the hospitals, they own the rental properties...

thru lobbyists and other forms of influence, they (increasingly...) set the rules the rest of us live by. tax codes, worker protections (if any...), environmental regulations, even criminal laws...

of course, the elites generally run the show, wherever you go. and its not just about the economy. Sociologist Max Weber writes about 'the iron law of oligarchy,' which is just the way wealth, power, influence, control tend to concentrate in a few hands...

in extended families, in communities, in businesses, in bureaucracies, and in government and society as a whole. so...

as a Christian, I try to remind myself that Jesus saves us, even as we go on living a fallen, corrupt, sin damaged world. what was the verse... fear not, for I have overcome the world...I think that's more or less correct.

as a side note...internationally, inequality has grown and is growing. right now, its especially rough in the US, but its a global trend. as the rich and powerful gain more power and get more stuff...

more wealth flows upwards...to the top, even to the very top. im not a fan of communism, but i think it might be time to push the politicians to please do something about the situation, for the majority.

 

[jasonc]

I have no problem with the rich building whatever luxury house they want on their own land. Its only when they prevent Joe average from building a modest home on his own land that I object.

I was making a comment about empty homes ,the value might,have dropped .but I saw plenty of building in,said recession here. Large homes being perfectly ok,are razed because they can increase its value by building a new .

 

[jasonc]

im not a fan of communism, but i don't think un-regulated capitalism would work, either. The US version of neoliberal capitalism has caused a lot of problems, here at home.

those who own the corporations, those who run the banks...more and more, they call the shots. I'm --not-- a huge fan of Marx, but he makes some valid points...in capitalism (without some serious gov't regulation+intervention...), the wealth of labor tends to go upstream, to the upper classes. the upper classes...the rich, and definitely the super rich...own the factories, they own the hospitals, they own the rental properties...

thru lobbyists and other forms of influence, they (increasingly...) set the rules the rest of us live by. tax codes, worker protections (if any...), environmental regulations, even criminal laws...

of course, the elites generally run the show, wherever you go. and its not just about the economy. Sociologist Max Weber writes about 'the iron law of oligarchy,' which is just the way wealth, power, influence, control tend to concentrate in a few hands...

in extended families, in communities, in businesses, in bureaucracies, and in government and society as a whole. so...

as a Christian, I try to remind myself that Jesus saves us, even as we go on living a fallen, corrupt, sin damaged world. what was the verse... fear not, for I have overcome the world...I think that's more or less correct.

as a side note...internationally, inequality has grown and is growing. right now, its especially rough in the US, but its a global trend. as the rich and powerful gain more power and get more stuff...

more wealth flows upwards...to the top, even to the very top. im not a fan of communism, but i think it might be time to push the politicians to please do something about the situation, for the majority.

Good luck with that .
I,might post something on,that more on how it fails.

Using utilities and California

 

[Michael74]

I was making a comment about empty homes ,the value might,have dropped .but I saw plenty of building in,said recession here. Large homes being perfectly ok,are razed because they can increase its value by building a new .

That's not what happened in myriad American neighborhoods. The homes just sat empty for years, because locals couldn't afford them.

 

[Michael74]

i don't think un-regulated capitalism would work, either.

The US does not have free market capitalism. It has central planning of the economy by bankers. It has lobbyists demanding monopolies/oligopolies, which are the opposite of free market capitalism.

...the wealth of labor tends to go upstream, to the upper classes. the upper classes...

Bankers are confiscating goods from the majority, and redistributing those goods to rich hedge fund managers and such. If prices were allowed to become more affordable (deflation), the average person would benefit from trade and technological improvements in production. Joe average would be able to buy more stuff at the store.

...thru lobbyists...

Its similar to India's former licence raj. Inefficient.

 

[jasonc]

That's not what happened in myriad American neighborhoods. The homes just sat empty for years, because locals couldn't afford them.

You mentioned mcmansions,I,adreessed that only .I know my dominion .I didn't take it out of context .I had a few in my,area where I live lose their homes,but honestly,some people overspent and bought something to much for them.I will,say I have turned off plenty of wealthy homes water ,all them toys and can't pay.these live on credit too.some homes they build in sections because the way the banks loan .