Bible Study WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

[jocor]

I also agree that these scriptures are teaching us not to believe people who speak against Him, they are anti-christ.

There is a big difference between speaking against Messiah and speaking against erroneous views of Messiah.

 

[Deborah13]

There is a big difference between speaking against Messiah and speaking against erroneous views of Messiah.

I agree.

 

[Chopper]

There is ample Scripture that proves that Jesus was divine, or God. The Gospels have Jesus claiming this. I realize that Jesus was not called "God the Son" in those exact words. Our Christian doctrine's and theology of those words can be interpreted God the Son without defiling those words about the Christ of God.

I find it curious that instead of adding to the Scriptures by posting some additional truths concerning the Scripture that is the focus of study, instead, post what is wrong with how the study is presented. If that is all this study is, something to find wrong with it, I have wasted my time and will cease from further posting the study.

 

[ezrider]

There is ample Scripture that proves that Jesus was divine, or God. The Gospels have Jesus claiming this. I realize that Jesus was not called "God the Son" in those exact words. Our Christian doctrine's and theology of those words can be interpreted God the Son without defiling those words about the Christ of God.

I find it curious that instead of adding to the Scriptures by posting some additional truths concerning the Scripture that is the focus of study, instead, post what is wrong with how the study is presented. If that is all this study is, something to find wrong with it, I have wasted my time and will cease from further posting the study.

Chopper,

No disrespect, but what do you really expect when you teach a message before a bunch a Pharisees? We are all students of the Bible here, and we are all as Pharisees defending our own doctrines. As a Pharisee, we look in the Bible and analyze every single word to find deeper meaning, and we do so with the words that others use when conveying their thoughts, picking apart the words, yet never hearing the spirit of the message.

As you know from our past conversations, I feel that when we look at the man Jesus as God, then we are making God into the image of a man. This I can not do, and while you may have used the phrase "God the Son" innocently enough, to me it does in some ways imply the the image of a man as God, whereas saying the Son of God does not imply that same connotation. Jesus was also called the son of man: imagine how that would sound had I called him Man the Son!

 

[Chopper]

Chopper,

No disrespect, but what do you really expect when you teach a message before a bunch a Pharisees? We are all students of the Bible here, and we are all as Pharisees defending our own doctrines. As a Pharisee, we look in the Bible and analyze every single word to find deeper meaning, and we do so with the words that others use when conveying their thoughts, picking apart the words, yet never hearing the spirit of the message.

As you know from our past conversations, I feel that when we look at the man Jesus as God, then we are making God into the image of a man. This I can not do, and while you may have used the phrase "God the Son" innocently enough, to me it does in some ways imply the the image of a man as God, whereas saying the Son of God does not imply that same connotation. Jesus was also called the son of man: imagine how that would sound had I called him Man the Son!

I hear what you're saying friend, it's just that the testimony to our belief system is critical to the fact that Jesus was God incarnate. God in a human body. Many of the cults do not believe in the divinity of Jesus which is a critical difference in our fundamental doctrine of the Son of God.
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[Deborah13]

I hear what you're saying friend, it's just that the testimony to our belief system is critical to the fact that Jesus was God incarnate. God in a human body. Many of the cults do not believe in the divinity of Jesus which is a critical difference in our fundamental doctrine of the Son of God.
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I believe this is what John is talking about in these scriptures.....
There were those in cults that were teaching that Jesus the Christ (the Messiah) had Not come in the flesh and blood body of a man. They were of different gnostic like beliefs. Things like He was really a spirit and it was just an allusion that He was in the flesh. John is saying that those who taught those things were false teachers, he calls them anti-christs. We can read about them in the writings of the church fathers of that time and they are mentioned in other scriptures.

 

[Deborah13]

I hear what you're saying friend, it's just that the testimony to our belief system is critical to the fact that Jesus was God incarnate. God in a human body. Many of the cults do not believe in the divinity of Jesus which is a critical difference in our fundamental doctrine of the Son of God.
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I'd like to add to my statement about these scriptures. If one does not believe that Jesus the Anointed/Chosen One of God, the Son of God, came in the flesh as a man the whole Christian doctrine falls apart.
If there was no incarnation of Him then there is , no sacrifice, no resurrection, no eternal life.

 

[Chopper]

I'd like to add to my statement about these scriptures. If one does not believe that Jesus the Anointed/Chosen One of God, the Son of God, came in the flesh as a man the whole Christian doctrine falls apart.
If there was no incarnation of Him then there is , no sacrifice, no resurrection, no eternal life.

Answer one question for me please. Was Jesus God in the flesh?

 

[Deborah13]

Answer one question for me please. Was Jesus God in the flesh?

I believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Which I already said I did in a previous post.

 

[jocor]

I find it curious that instead of adding to the Scriptures by posting some additional truths concerning the Scripture that is the focus of study, instead, post what is wrong with how the study is presented. If that is all this study is, something to find wrong with it, I have wasted my time and will cease from further posting the study.

Had you presented what Yeshua meant, I would have no problem. Instead, you attack those who believe differently and claim that that is what Yeshua meant.

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.​

The only way to make the tree good is by receiving Yeshua as Savior. No amount of works can accomplish that. Once we have Yeshua on the throne of our heart, we begin to bear good fruit. However, it may take years to discard the bad fruit that we bore for all those years prior to receiving him. It may also take years to bear the good fruit.

The "evil man" of verse 35 is not the one who denies Yeshua's deity, but the one who denies Yeshua period. He is the unregenerate man who is without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The "idle words" of verse 36 are those that do not work. They are "inactive" or "unemployed" as lexicons define it. They are not gracious or edifying. They accomplish nothing.

The most effective words that shall justify a person are "I believe in Yeshua the Messiah as my Master and Savior."

 

[ezrider]

Answer one question for me please. Was Jesus God in the flesh?

This is probably a topic for a different thread, but then again that would end up in a furious debate with a couple hundred posts that the moderators would none the less have to close. While to me there is no debate that the fulness of God was in Jesus in the flesh, and you ask was Jesus God in the flesh?

Let me re-phrase your question so you might think upon it differently. Was the Flesh of Jesus God?

God is a Spirit.

 

[Chopper]

Had you presented what Yeshua meant, I would have no problem. Instead, you attack those who believe differently and claim that that is what Yeshua meant.

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.​

The only way to make the tree good is by receiving Yeshua as Savior. No amount of works can accomplish that. Once we have Yeshua on the throne of our heart, we begin to bear good fruit. However, it may take years to discard the bad fruit that we bore for all those years prior to receiving him. It may also take years to bear the good fruit.

The "evil man" of verse 35 is not the one who denies Yeshua's deity, but the one who denies Yeshua period. He is the unregenerate man who is without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The "idle words" of verse 36 are those that do not work. They are "inactive" or "unemployed" as lexicons define it. They are not gracious or edifying. They accomplish nothing.

The most effective words that shall justify a person are "I believe in Yeshua the Messiah as my Master and Savior."

Please, I don't attack people. I'm sorry you believe that. That's why I'm ceasing to present any further studies

 

[Chopper]

This is probably a topic for a different thread, but then again that would end up in a furious debate with a couple hundred posts that the moderators would none the less have to close. While to me there is no debate that the fulness of God was in Jesus in the flesh, and you ask was Jesus God in the flesh?

Let me re-phrase your question so you might think upon it differently. Was the Flesh of Jesus God?

God is a Spirit.

No, the flesh of Jesus was human flesh ruled by the divine Jesus.

 

[jocor]

Please, I don't attack people. I'm sorry you believe that. That's why I'm ceasing to present any further studies

That would be unfair to those following this study. I'll just drop out of this thread for the sake of others. Say what you will. I will not contribute or correct.

 

[Chopper]

Hey, if anyone wants to take over the Matthew study, be my guest. It doesn't look like Karl is going to continue. I'm all through.

 

[jasonc]

Day 100 Monday 1/26/15 Matthew 12:33-37 Word Judgment.

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

After laying down an important teaching on the unforgivable sin, (No it's not divorce) It is my opinion that Jesus looks at his disciples and instructs them on how to spot His enemies like the Scribes and Pharisees. The instruction is; when you meet someone who claims to be God's representative to His people, they were to examine closely what comes out of his mouth.

First of all, is this person attributing the works of Jesus to the evil one. Secondly, a believer is to discern what the person is saying about Jesus. Is it good, or is it evil. Example: For us it might be, is Jesus, God's Son, the very God. In other words, is Jesus "God the Son."

An amusing story told of Billy Sunday, an evangelist to men who liked to live out of a bottle of booze. Several times he would open up his message with "You generation of vipers, you bunch of snakes." Wow, talk about an introduction! Apparently, it woke some out of a drunken stupor.

The test of anyone who thinks they might be God's spokesman is quite simple. A good man speaks good things about Jesus Christ. A bad man speaks bad or evil things about Jesus. Again, a good man will emphasize that Jesus is God the Son. He was God incarnate. The Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses do not claim this. They claim that Jesus was created like the angels, or close to that.

V. 36 & 37 Speak of unbelievers IMO. Personally, I believe that there will be levels of punishment for those who reject Jesus as their Savior. It may be that some of the judgment against them on the day of their judgment, will be by the words that come out of their mouth. There are actually unsaved men who are so lost and so evil that their words are an abomination, filthy talk and disgusting to man, let alone to a holy God.

ok without knowing the jewish thoughts and teaching on sheol. many Christians say this with gehenna, why do you think that is?

 

[Chopper]

ok without knowing the jewish thoughts and teaching on sheol. many Christians say this with gehenna, why do you think that is?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Could you please rephrase?

 

[jasonc]

I'm not sure what you are asking. Could you please rephrase?

how do you come to the conclusion that hell has levels?

 

[Chopper]

how do you come to the conclusion that hell has levels?

Oh boy Jason. that's a good question. I haven't addressed that position for years. I'll have to think about it, jog my memory some. Thanks for asking though, perhaps someone can help me.

 

[jasonc]

Oh boy Jason. that's a good question. I haven't addressed that position for years. I'll have to think about it, jog my memory some. Thanks for asking though, perhaps someone can help me.

I can but I think it would based on the assumption of dante's view of hell, and also statements by jesus. on the stripes for those that knew to do his will but didn't. sheol in Judaism since the time of Christ had levels to it.some of it was viewed as a puragatory. but I don't see that , you could use one peter 3:18 as such but well that is another topic and the arguments against that in the past of the souls in the flood isn't strong.