What church do you attend?

[Rose of Sharon]

Henry,

Why beat around the bush, I know the inside scoop here. Let the room know that you think that the Oneness folks are the only "real" christians on the earth. Certainly you would never dare to say a trinitarian was a "real" Christian.

No, because I beleive that most Trinitarians are christians ,Although I beleive the trinity doctrine is wrong. But some are christians as other groups, some are not. They are followers of their own selves and put on a front, hypocrites. But naturally Christians follow Christ, do they not? Now as for being a " real" chrisitian, well, a "real" christian would really follow Christ, don't you think?
I beleive that the only way to obtain salvation is through the book of Acts.
Any other way is not salvation.

Oh no, you have attacked and bashed the RCC and all others quite well. But here is the problem you have been shown clearly in the word of God, not just by me, but others as well, that the Oneness doctrines are not biblical. Your responce is the attack that person and ignore the biblical text.

No, I don't attack the RCC. But I do say it like I beleive it to be. Just like they do. They say they are THE church, I say they are not. They say they don't pray to Mary, I say they do by their actions. They say I'am a heretic because I'm not of the universal church, I say they are because they have left the first faith.
You have had your say concerning the RCC also, not too kind if I remember correctly. So, do not throw water without it splashing back at you.

Ha! No one, not even you has shown me anything in the word
against Oneness. There is absolutely nothing in the word to prove trinity. I'am pretty intelligent if I say so myself, without being hi-minded, I'm not a scholar, but I cannot see your trinity anywhere.
If it was proven to me without a shadow of a doubt, I would forsake the Oneness and beleive Trinity, but as I can read and understand the word, I see only oneness.
I don't ignore the biblical text, I ignore your concept of them.

Accusing one of heresy and proving it are two different things, and the Oneness teaching have been shown to be heresy time and time agian through out history.

No, it hasn't. Prove it.

well your buddies the UPCI went to Rome and after kissing the Popes ring got his permission to worship there in the big ta do Church they have.

It was on the news dear.

Stop calling me dear


Find a news web site or an article about it. I don't beleive you.

OH yes you have no TV so you do not know what goes on in the world,
Oh I forgot part of UPC legalism says that TV is of the devil.

Your rude behavior is showing Henry. It's not very christian like.
I don't need a tv to know what goes on in the world. The press doesn't tell it all in the first place. I can find out more on the BBC news radio, then the tv if I want to.

A mis perception on your part, if you wish to give me my own medicine then show me biblical proof for your arguements.

I have Henry , I have and you tear the scripture up so badly it's not even funny.

 

[Vic C.]

OK, Henry, you got in your word and Rose, your rebuttal. If either one of you respond outside of the topic at hand, I will lock it. You have been forewarned.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Okay Vic,

Since I started this topic, I will say that I go to the United Pentecostal Church international. It is an Apostolic Pentecostal church. We beleive in The baptizm of the Holyghost and Jesus name Baptism. We are holiness beleivers and oneness, not trinity. I have been attending for 35 years.


http://www.upci.org/


God bless

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I attend a Catholic Church.

I like your user name.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I am a practicing Wiccan of he Dianic Path and I currently attend he Church of Witchy_womyn. I see no need to follow organized religion.

Why?

 

[Vic C.]

Okay Vic,

Since I started this topic, I will say that I go to the United Pentecostal Church international. It is an Apostolic Pentecostal church. We beleive in The baptizm of the Holyghost and Jesus name Baptism. We are holiness beleivers and oneness, not trinity. I have been attending for 35 years.


http://www.upci.org/


God bless

Milk and cookies for you!

:

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Okay Vic,

Since I started this topic, I will say that I go to the United Pentecostal Church international. It is an Apostolic Pentecostal church. We beleive in The baptizm of the Holyghost and Jesus name Baptism. We are holiness beleivers and oneness, not trinity. I have been attending for 35 years.


http://www.upci.org/


God bless

Milk and cookies for you!

:

:wink:

 

[Henry]

http://www.upci.org/about/index.asp

Doctrinal views

The doctrinal views of the UPCI reflect most of the beliefs of the Holiness-Pentecostal movement, with the exception of the "second work of grace," the historic doctrine of the Trinity, and the traditional Trinitarian formula in water baptism. It embraces the Pentecostal view that speaking in tongues is the initial sign of receiving the Holy Spirit.

The UPCI holds a fundamental view of the Bible: "The Bible is the only God-given authority which man possesses; therefore all doctrine, faith, hope, and all instructions for the church must be based upon and harmonize with the Bible" (Manual of the United Pentecostal Church, 19). The Bible is the Word of God, and therefore inerrant and infallible. The UPCI rejects all extrabiblical revelations and writings, and views church creeds and articles of faith only as the thinking of men.

The UPCI holds that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works. Faith in Jesus is the means by which a person is justified. At the same time, a sinner must believe the gospel; he is commanded to repent of his sinful life, to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ, and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 4:12; 8:12-17; 10:43-48; 19:1-6). Thus the various aspects of faith and obedience work together in God's grace to reconcile us to God.


1. In the first paragraph they deny the trinity and the triune formula of baptism, both of which trace right back the apostles and are the historical teachings of the Church, they claim that the wicked RCC forced this into the church in 300 to 500. And that all who adhere to this teaching are unsaved and not Christians.

In the last sentence, they mislead us a bit. The mainline trinitarian pentecostals, to infact teach that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit, but NOT as part of being saved, rather after one is saved and when God has a job for them to do, this is an empowerment.

The Oneness Church on the other hand teaches this part of being saved and if one has not spoken in tongues they are not saved and are not Christians. The main line pentecostals fully reject this doctrine. Feel free to go to any Assemblies of God site and check this out for your self.

2. I agree with the statement "The Bible is the only God-given authority which man possesses; therefore all doctrine, faith, hope, and all instructions for the church must be based upon and harmonize with the Bible" As do all other Christians.

The problem however is that Oneness pentecostals tend to read into the text things that are not there, and presume teaching which are not found in the textual context. For example they know very well that the bible never once says that one who is saved will always speak in toungues, but since they teach this to be true, they say "we see that in the book of acts it was part of the salvation experience, so we PRESUME it to be so"

And so we find the same type of presumptive teachings through out the doctrines of the Oneness pentecostals.

The bottom line is that when we say the bible is the final authority, we mean the clear consise and contextual teaching of the bible as a whole. Not just a string of verses used for the promotion of a certain doctrine.

In the last part of this they say "The UPCI rejects all extrabiblical revelations and writings, and views church creeds and articles of faith only as the thinking of men.''

When you are in the Oneness church this is how they get you to reject any other teaching aprior, basically if it is not Oneness theology it is not of the bible, and is extra biblical. Becuase they are very stuborn in the idea that they alone have the correct understanding of the bible, never mind that it contredict the last two thousand years of teaching.


3. The last thing here dealing with salvation is nothing less then double talk, and I am not sure why anyone would fall for it. They that we are saved by grace and through faith alone and not by works, but that is to"look" Christian, there after they explain that faith is realy something we do, and that the gospel is something we obey, hence the phrase "faith and obedience work together in God's grace" which means that the works they do to be saved, they call works of faith. So, while they say that we are saved by grace, what they mean is that by grace we are given the chance to obey and do the works neccary to be saved.

And like all these arminian type thinkers, they also teach that if you do not keep doing works you will be rejected by God, and tossed into hell anyways. So in the end you can never really be sure if you will make it or not, if you happen to sin then die with out a show of grand repentance, you are out if there.

Well, there is much more to that site. Go and check it out, read carefully. You will find these things, a denile of jsut about basic historic doctrine, the insinuation that they alone are saved, allot or presumtive teachings, and verses used out of context.

Oh, by the way I only pointed this stuff out because Rose posted this site, she is here to proseltize whom ever she can, and thinks that if only we would read that site we would see the 'light' and turn to oneness theology. So, I offer this rebutle just in case some one is fooled by the slick way

 

[thor]

wels

I am a member of a wisconsin Lutheran synod church we are in fellowship with the els synod ( the evangelical Lutheran synod)
at one time we also were in fellowship with the Lcms /missouri synod.
I hope some day that can happen again.As their are many confessional Lutherans in that synod

 

[Henry]

thor

Does it matter if they are a Confessional Lutheran? Would you call and pentacostal or baptist brother?

 

[Henry]

rose said--No, because I beleive that most Trinitarians are christians

LOL are you for real. Sometime ago you got after another Oneness person for saying that, and told them they where a compromiser of the faith.

Not to mention that you told me that since I left the Oneness Church I was going to hell.

Besides, the very theology of Oneness can not alow a trinitarain to be a Christian. Becuase said person must not be baptised in the "titles" or they are not saved and hence not Christian.

said--I beleive that the only way to obtain salvation is through the book of Acts.
Any other way is not salvation.


Ok, so then if someone says, no we are saved by the things that Jesus said and baptised in the name of the.... as he said, then they are not saved. So, then who ever is not baptised in Jesus name is not saved, so when you said "I beleive that most Trinitarians are christians" you where lying becuase, certainly one can not be a Christian according to you if they where baptised in the 'titles'

said-- a "real" christian would really follow Christ, don't you think?

Well, I don't know ask the Mormons, or the Jahovah witnesses. They say they aer real Christians.

said--No, I don't attack the RCC. But I do say it like I beleive it to be.

Oh boy, you have been quite insultive in the words that you use in saying what you believe, calling them vile wicked and so on. Typical though of you, when I say that Oneness is wrong, I am hate monger, and worse names that you called me. But you are speaking truth to say the same of others, they call that hyprocasy.

said--Ha! No one, not even you has shown me anything in the word
against Oneness. There is absolutely nothing in the word to prove trinity.

falt out wrong, you have been shown the error of every single oneness doctrine from the biblical text right down the line, you just refuse to see it. As for the trinity you are still stuck on this straw man doctrine you have been taught, and you are right THAT doctrine is not founded in the bible, however THAT is not the doctrine of the Trinity in the first place.

said--but as I can read and understand the word, I see only oneness.

Exactly, as you have been brainwashed to see things, you will only see what you have been programed to see. The hair and make up thing for example, blue was very good at showing you the greater context of the verses used to promote that doctrine do not teach that woman can not cut their hair or wear make up.

Oh, I know that you do not think you are brianwashed. But no one in a Cult thinks they are untill they are freed from the false teaching and have had some time to be deprogramed.

Hmmm,, Sorry Modalism has been struck down as heresy everytime it came up in history. And all one needs to do is read the bible to see why. Come on, you read a verse then say it means all kinds of things that are not found in the entire chapter, can't you see the problem there.

For example, you say that when Jesus said be born of the water, he refered to water baptism, and stick that as being the only right interpretation. However the context, and the meaning of that word, in that verse and the whole chapter says nothing about being baptized, it actually negates that idea all together, since JEsus clearly says that we are save by believing in him in the same chapter.

said--Stop calling me dear

LOL cute Oneness leaders are kissing the popes ring and worhsiping in his temple, and that is all you have to say. Cute

said--Your rude behavior is showing Henry. It's not very christian like.

As I have said, if I disagree and state my reason, I am rude or hatefull or what ever. But if you say that the trinity is a lie from satan that some how is OK. NO, I am not behaiving rudely at all, only speaking the truth.

said--I have Henry , I have and you tear the scripture up so badly it's not even funny.

Cute, I tear the scripture? I geuss you mean that I will only read it for what it says and in the context it is written in. And I will alow for all subjective and presumptive readings from the Oneness Church.

Sorry, you are the one that tears the bible to sheads.

 

[SRA]

Greetings All...

The church I attend is in the body of Christ. I am raised by God for the purposes of sharing the Ultimate Love message of Universal Reconciliation. I serve as Minister, tending the sheep like a dog! Here's finding you all blessed... Remain in Love...

Sister Rachel Agness :B-fly:

 

[Henry]

UR is not a love message, it is heresy.

 

[SRA]

Greetings....

Why that was nice. It is too bad that your opinion is so. Needless to say, it is the ultimate message of Love. UR loved..... Remain blessed... SRA :B-fly:

 

[rmills]

Greetings All...

The church I attend is in the body of Christ. I am raised by God for the purposes of sharing the Ultimate Love message of Universal Reconciliation. I serve as Minister, tending the sheep like a dog! Here's finding you all blessed... Remain in Love...

Sister Rachel Agness :B-fly:

SRA, define yourself for those of us who do not know. What is Universal Reconciliation? Then, what is Universalism? Then, how does the word of God support either?

Thanks.

 

[evanman]

Love is an action that does what is right and just in any, and all, situations.

If a person is trapped sometimes they have to have a limb amputated in order to be freed!

Speaking the truth is always an act of love!

 

[Vic C.]

SRA, define yourself for those of us who do not know. What is Universal Reconciliation? Then, what is Universalism? Then, how does the word of God support either?

Thanks.

:o We have an 80+ page thread on this subject. Lets keep the conversation there. Thanks!

 

[Henry]

Gladly the whole thing turns my stomache.

 

[paxigoth7]

The church I regularly attend, and am a member of, is an Evangelical Lutheran Church. We're currently adressing, questioning, and creating our policy for gay people.

I'm only a Lutheran in a very broad sense. In reality, I'm trans-denominational (not non-denominational!). I'm a Lutheran - Episcopal - United Church of Christ - Vatican III Catholic type hybrid. Yes, I know, there isn't a Vatican III yet. But there should be. And I anticipate there will be. Hmm, perhaps 'progressive Catholic' states it better.

 

[Henry]

paxigoth7

Dude you are going to have to land somewhere soon