What do Calvinists really believe?

[mlqurgw]

Give me a bullett list on the things that seperate hypers from regular Calvanists.



..................please.

• Hypers believe that God saves His elect apart from the preaching of the Gospel just because He has chosen them.
• Hypers who do preach the Gospel in some sense do so in such a way that it applies only to the elect.
• Hypers seem to fear that an un-elect sinner might hear the Gospel and believe.
• Hypers make election salvation rather than Christ.

 

[Danus]

Ah, a NEW determinist doctrine has arrived.

Salvation by LAW.

I think Calvin would be rolling over in his grave over that claim.

s

We need an "AGREE" Button, so we are not wasting valuable scrolling space, but since I just did for lack of such, I felt the need to say you are correct sir.

 

[mlqurgw]

Good thread mlgurgw. Hope you get some good questions without being burned at the stake......(joking)

I'm in vast agreement with john Calvin as well, but I don't call myself a "Calvinist".
I prefer to call myself a reformist. John Calvin was one of many brilliant reformist as well, and I would consider him among some of the greatest theologians, along with Augustine, Luther, Wesley....many others.

When I read your title I thought...."This ought to be interesting". I would hope that you might be given the consideration you've asked for.

I would appreciate any assitance you and other reformists might be able to give in answering. Thanks for your comments.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mlq:

No I wouldn't. I was one at one time though. I once held to the belief that God saves His elect whether they ever hear of Christ in the Gospel or not simply because they were the elect of God.

I would not go that far, but I do believe the Elect are Justified from all their sins and have a imputed righteousness before they hear the True Gospel, but I believe that God has ordained that they receive the Knowledge of it through the Gospel sometime during their lifetime because He covets their Thanksgiving of it while they are on earth to testify of it..

Eph 1:


13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

ps 116:

12What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me?


13I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

14I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.

15Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

16O LORD, truly I am thy servant; I am thy servant, and the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds.
17I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.

 

[mlqurgw]

Ah, a NEW determinist doctrine has arrived.

Salvation by LAW.

I think Calvin would be rolling over in his grave over that claim.

s

I am asking you kindly to not try and turn this thread into a fight. You have your right to disagree with anything said here but please don't bring strife and hostility to it. Thanks in advance.

 

[smaller]

We need an "AGREE" Button, so we are not wasting valuable scrolling space, but since I just did for lack of such, I felt the need to say you are correct sir.

What? Did you just agree with me?

I will say that Mr. SBG57, whoever he is, DOES not have a very good grip on determinist doctrines on many counts and does NOT accurately represent classic determinism.

There are many GOOD tenets of determinism that I can and do agree with. Not everything they claim however is TOTALLY right, nor can it be.

 

[Strangelove]

I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven..

[lolz...so basically....no-one under the curse of the law is getting into Heaven]

But...no-one knows if Christ died for them so isn't it the duty of every sinner to try?

So...if you dont mind me asking,

....would you class yourself as a hyper, high or regular Calvinist?

 

[smaller]

I am asking you kindly to not try and turn this thread into a fight. You have your right to disagree with anything said here but please don't bring strife and hostility to it. Thanks in advance.

Well, one of you supposed 'determinists' JUST CLAIMED salvation by LAW.

Would you like to AGREE or DISAGREE?

Spinning is not a requirement.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

Hypers make election salvation rather than Christ.

That's not a issue, if they mean by that having been chosen in Him, who is Gods Elect isa 42:1 before the Foundation of the World.

As Per Eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I cannot see how you or anyone can seperate Christ and Election..

 

[mlqurgw]

mlq:



I would not go that far, but I do believe the Elect are Justified from all their sins and have a imputed righteousness before they hear the True Gospel, but I believe that God has ordained that they receive the Knowledge of it through the Gospel sometime during their lifetime because He covets their Thanksgiving of it while they are on earth to testify of it..

Eph 1:


13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

ps 116:

12What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me?


13I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

14I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.

15Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

16O LORD, truly I am thy servant; I am thy servant, and the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds.
17I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.

I would agree with that. Though many Calvinists do not hold to eternal justification I do. My theology is more along the lines of John Gill rather than John Calvin. I call myself a Calvinist because it is much simpler to use that label than it is to explain where I differ from Calvin.

 

[savedbygrace57]

strange:

But...no-one knows if Christ died for them

They will Know when God reveals it them through the Gospel of their salvation.

 

[Danus]

mlq:



I would not go that far, but I do believe the Elect are Justified from all their sins and have a imputed righteousness before they hear the True Gospel, but I believe that God has ordained that they receive the Knowledge of it through the Gospel sometime during their lifetime because He covets their Thanksgiving of it while they are on earth to testify of it..

Eph 1:


13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

ps 116:

12What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me?


13I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

14I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.

15Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

16O LORD, truly I am thy servant; I am thy servant, and the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds.
17I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.

As for election...I'm not totally sure what of it I grasp. However I do believe in predestination. Although I've come to realize there are variations of this belief.

I found a pretty good series by RCS that deals with this; one I've been studying on and off for the last 6 months. Might find it interesting.
Chosen By God Teaching Series by Dr. R.C. Sproul from Ligonier Ministries

 

[savedbygrace57]

Ah, a NEW determinist doctrine has arrived.

Salvation by LAW.

I think Calvin would be rolling over in his grave over that claim.

s

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

 

[mlqurgw]

Well, one of you supposed 'determinists' JUST CLAIMED salvation by LAW.

Would you like to AGREE or DISAGREE?

Spinning is not a requirement.

s

I suspect that no matter what I say you are determined to undermine the intent of this thread. So I will just ignore your posts and ask that others do so as well. This thread isn't about my personal beliefs or agreement with anyone but about seeking to expalin simply what Calvinists as a whole believe. I will not hold back my personal beliefs when they are relevant and apply but it ain't about my beliefs.

 

[Danus]

What? Did you just agree with me?

I will say that Mr. SBG57, whoever he is, DOES not have a very good grip on determinist doctrines on many counts and does NOT accurately represent classic determinism.

There are many GOOD tenets of determinism that I can and do agree with. Not everything they claim however is TOTALLY right, nor can it be.

Yes I agreed with your statement about John Calvin rolling over in his grave on this point, but again I'd rather we just had an agree button. I'm not totally disagreeing with SBG, but I would not totally fit his statement into Calvinism.

 

[Danus]

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

AH...now I'm back with you. I misunderstood you as well.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mlq:

Hypers believe that God saves His elect apart from the preaching of the Gospel just because He has chosen them.

Well, The Elect are Justified before God apart from their hearing about it in the Gospel, but I will agree, that they come into experiential salvation and conversion by means of the Preaching of the True Gospel.

The Gospel will bring immortality and life to Light 2 tim 1:

10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The Light and Life were not produced by the Gospel, but by The quickening of the Holy Ghost ! But the Gospel makes manifest that quickened Life..

 

[smaller]

Yes I agreed with your statement about John Calvin rolling over in his grave on this point, but again I'd rather we just had an agree button. I'm not totally disagreeing with SBG, but I would not totally fit his statement into Calvinism.

A valid observation about Calvinism and determinism in general is that it DOES continue to MORPH, which also means that Mr. Calvin was NOT totally right or there would be no MORPHING required.

The father of modern day determinism in its BEST FORMS are from Karl Barth imho. That man was a determinist genius who received praise from a Pope. How utterly cool was that?

Even THE POPE bowed to Karl Barths forms of understandings in some measures.

s

 

[Danus]

OK...I'll play devils...or maybe Romes, advocate here and ask a question.

Do Calvinist believe that once you are saved you can not loose your salvation...IE, reject ...walk away from it......HUMMM?

 

[savedbygrace57]

AH...now I'm back with you. I misunderstood you as well.

Yes Jesus proposed to one young man once this:

matt 19:17

And he [Jesus] said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.