What do Calvinists really believe?

[mlqurgw]

mlq:



Well, The Elect are Justified before God apart from their hearing about it in the Gospel, but I will agree, that they come into experiential salvation and conversion by means of the Preaching of the True Gospel.

The Gospel will bring immortality and life to Light 2 tim 1:

10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The Light and Life were not produced by the Gospel, but by The quickening of the Holy Ghost ! But the Gospel makes manifest that quickened Life..

I would agree. But our understanding isn't the normal way Calvinists see it. We are among the minority in this as well. Most Calvinists would say that we are justified when we believe. If I am wrong on this then perhaps another Calvinist could better explain.

 

[smaller]

I suspect that no matter what I say you are determined to undermine the intent of this thread. So I will just ignore your posts and ask that others do so as well. This thread isn't about my personal beliefs or agreement with anyone but about seeking to expalin simply what Calvinists as a whole believe. I will not hold back my personal beliefs when they are relevant and apply but it ain't about my beliefs.

You claim determinism? So do I.

You are welcome to dialog on what those matters might be. Some of you claim things that do not exist in classic determinism as sbg57 does REPEATEDLY.

Now when 'those things' POP OUT, I ask YOU if you AGREE because 'some' of his statements are NOT determinist positions, but PERSONAL FAIRY TALES.

That's all there is to it.

s

 

[Strangelove]

I suspect that no matter what I say you are determined to undermine the intent of this thread. So I will just ignore your posts and ask that others do so as well. This thread isn't about my personal beliefs or agreement with anyone but about seeking to expalin simply what Calvinists as a whole believe. I will not hold back my personal beliefs when they are relevant and apply but it ain't about my beliefs.

I had smaller on 'ignore' mode for a while but you cant report his malicious slander if you do that.

 

[smaller]

OK...I'll play devils...or maybe Romes, advocate here and ask a question.

Do Calvinist believe that once you are saved you can not loose your salvation...IE, reject ...walk away from it......HUMMM?

No legitimate form of Calvin Determinism makes that claim.

Perseverance is well entrenched and means that one CAN be proven a NON-ELECT if they do not LIVE the Gospel as such were NEVER saved to begin with and THIS FATE could 'technically' fall upon ANY or ALL of the adherents.

s

 

[smaller]

I had smaller on 'ignore' mode for a while but you cant report his malicious slander if you do that.

Oh please. Move on.

 

[Strangelove]

They will Know when God reveals it them through the Gospel of their salvation.

So why is it not the duty of every sinner to at least get to the point of the Gospels to see if that is revealed?

 

[savedbygrace57]

OK...I'll play devils...or maybe Romes, advocate here and ask a question.

Do Calvinist believe that once you are saved you can not loose your salvation...IE, reject ...walk away from it......HUMMM?

If you walk away from your profession of Faith, then you were never born again of God.

The Covenant Mercies and Grace that Brings Salvation has this attachment and promise .

Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

You see, Christ Sheep have taken Part in the Blood of the everlasting Covenant heb 13:

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So they cannot depart from the LORD..

 

[mlqurgw]

OK...I'll play devils...or maybe Romes, advocate here and ask a question.

Do Calvinist believe that once you are saved you can not loose your salvation...IE, reject ...walk away from it......HUMMM?

No they don't. Calvinists hold to what is normally called perseverance of the saints. This doctrine differs from what is known as once saved always saved in that osas grew from easy believism and decisionism while perseverance of the saints teaches that all who are truly saved will persever to the end in faith because they are kept by the power of God. While they may fall they will never become apstate. It is very closely tied with definate atonement and Christ not losing any for whom He made atonement. Of course there is more to it than that including the Suretyship of Christ, the indwelling of the Spirit and being born of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So why is it not the duty of every sinner to at least get to the point of the Gospels to see if that is revealed?

God sends it to those He wants to Hear it and reveal their salvation to.

rom 10:

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

 

[Strangelove]

I would not go that far, but I do believe the Elect are Justified from all their sins and have a imputed righteousness before they hear the True Gospel, but I believe that God has ordained that they receive the Knowledge of it through the Gospel sometime during their lifetime because He covets their Thanksgiving of it while they are on earth to testify of it..

Ok..do other Calvinists agree with that red bold bit?

The verse he quotes is:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[smaller]

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

uh, yeah, you did, right here, and you even admit that it is NOT a
Calvinist position, but yours.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven..} "

That statement flat out says that those who follow the LAW will NOT be excluded from heaven.

You are welcome to retract that statement.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

mlq:

Most Calvinists would say that we are justified when we believe

Yes, I would consider that a works orientated gospel, and a False one, be it from a calvinst or otherwise..

 

[Strangelove]

AH...now I'm back with you. I misunderstood you as well.

It was a trap.

And smaller bit like a 12 pound tuna.

 

[Strangelove]

uh, yeah, you did, right here, and you even admit that it is NOT a
Calvinist position, but yours.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven..} "

That statement flat out says that those who follow the LAW will NOT be excluded from heaven.

You are welcome to retract that statement.

s

LOLZ!

And there he just fell for it again.

oh smaller.

 

[savedbygrace57]

uh, yeah, you did, right here, and you even admit that it is NOT a
Calvinist position, but yours.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven..} "

That statement flat out says that those who follow the LAW will NOT be excluded from heaven.

You are welcome to retract that statement.

s

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

 

[mlqurgw]

So why is it not the duty of every sinner to at least get to the point of the Gospels to see if that is revealed?

A legitimate question. But keep in mind that what I am about to say is my belief and not those of Calvinists generally.

Duty faith implies that it is the duty of all sinners to believe the Gospel because God commands it. I differ from them in that it isn't their duty, as in a requirement, but it is insanity to not believe the Gospel. Now since we are all insane by nature and not only will not come to Christ that we might have life but cannot God must do something in us and for us that we cannot and will not do for ourselves. But since I have not gotten onto the debate among Calvinists on the issue for a long while I might need to refresh my memory of the duty faith teaching.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Ok..do other Calvinists agree with that red bold bit?

The verse he quotes is:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

If you pay attention closely with what is written, you will discover that Paul states that it was their salvation, before they heard of it, and trusted or believed.

 

[smaller]

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

YOUR claim was that obedience to THE LAW exclusive of CHRIST would be entrance to heaven.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.."

You are welcome to ignore your own statement any way you please.

s

 

[mlqurgw]

YOUR claim was that obedience to THE LAW exclusive of CHRIST would be entrance to heaven.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.."

You are welcome to ignore your own statement any way you please.

s

Take it somewhere else fellas.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mlq:

Duty faith implies that it is the duty of all sinners to believe the Gospel because God commands it

Yes, But the command to believe it is only for those who are born of God 1 jn 3:

23And this is his commandment, That we [The regenerated] should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another[other regenerated], as he gave us commandment.

So it is the Duty of the Regenerated Sons of God to Believe on Jesus Christ and to Love their Brethren in the LORD..