What do Calvinists really believe?

[savedbygrace57]

YOUR claim was that obedience to THE LAW exclusive of CHRIST would be entrance to heaven.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.."

You are welcome to ignore your own statement any way you please.

s

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

 

[mlqurgw]

mlq:



Yes, But the command to believe it is only for those who are born of God 1 jn 3:

23And this is his commandment, That we [The regenerated] should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another[other regenerated], as he gave us commandment.

So it is the Duty of the Regenerated Sons of God to Believe on Jesus Christ and to Love their Brethren in the LORD..

I would call it the delight of the regenerated to believe the Gospel of their salvation.

 

[mlqurgw]

I never said salvation is by Law, its by Grace [ election of Grace], but there is no grace for those who Christ did not die for. Their only Hope is a hopeless one.

I ask one more time that you take it somewhere else.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I ask one more time that you take it somewhere else.

Yes, I will ignore him for now, he has a bad habit of misrepresentation !

 

[mlqurgw]

Yes, I will ignore him for now, he has a bad habit of misrepresentation !

Thanks.

 

[Danus]

YOUR claim was that obedience to THE LAW exclusive of CHRIST would be entrance to heaven.

"I cannot speak per se for all who call themselves Calvinist, but No, Faith nor repentance are duties of anyone Christ did not died for. All those for who Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law and must obey it completely or else they will be excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.."

You are welcome to ignore your own statement any way you please.

s

Well, I believe that Christ died for all man, but not all men will embrace their salvation. Further, God has foreknowledge of who will and who will not respond. Those who will are the elect; they are predestined. Those who do not are left to their own free will, but that does not mean they can not be saved. I belive this is true for all men regardless of hearing the Gospel or not. I realize I just opened a CAN-O-Worms....and I'm not going to defend any of it, but rather if anyone wants to speak on it feel free.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I would call it the delight of the regenerated to believe the Gospel of their salvation.

It is, Keeping any command of the Lord is a delight to the regenerated.

Rom 7:

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

 

[savedbygrace57]

danus:

Well, I believe that Christ died for all man,

Yeah, thats a common myth in religion today. He died for His Sheep though, and not the goats of mankind.

 

[mlqurgw]

Well, I believe that Christ died for all man, but not all men will embrace their salvation. Further, God has foreknowledge of who will and who will not respond. Those who will are the elect; they are predestined. Those who do not are left to their own free will, but that does not mean they can not be saved. I belive this is true for all men regardless of hearing the Gospel or not. I realize I just opened a CAN-O-Worms....and I'm not going to defend any of it, but rather if anyone wants to speak on it feel free.

Well that certainly isn't what is usually called Calvinism. It seems closer to Amyryldianism(sp?).

 

[Sissy]

Quote from John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 3, Section 1

That there exists in the human minds and indeed by natural instinct, some sense of Deity, we hold to be beyond dispute, since God himself, to prevent any man from pretending ignorance, has endued all men with some idea of his Godhead, the memory of which he constantly renews and occasionally enlarges, that all to a man being aware that there is a God, and that he is their Maker, may be condemned by their own conscience when they neither worship him nor consecrate their lives to his service.

 

[Danus]

OK....another question for you :twopistolsCalvinist! What's the deal with Total Depravity of man?

I mean, I'm not the best person, but I'm not as bad as some. I'm not Hitler! How is it that man is totally depraved. Frankly I'm a little offended by the accusation! Explain yourselves. humfp

 

[savedbygrace57]

Quote from John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 3, Section 1

I believe that God has given men a Natural Revelation of Himself, but without Grace it dengerates into Idolatry and Wickedness.

Rom 1:

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

So sissy, there is no hope for men to have a relationship and fellowship with the True God apart from the Redeeming Death and Blood of Christ being applied to them, by the Holy Ghost..

 

[Danus]

Well that certainly isn't what is usually called Calvinism. It seems closer to Amyryldianism(sp?).

Correct. But, I had to look it up.

 

[Strangelove]

If you pay attention closely with what is written, you will discover that Paul states that it was their salvation, before they heard of it, and trusted or believed.

Huh? No...it definately says AFTER.

Heres the verse again:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

...maybe you can help me pay closer attention?

 

[mlqurgw]

OK....another question for you :twopistolsCalvinist! What's the deal with Total Depravity of man?

I mean, I'm not the best person, but I'm not as bad as some. I'm not Hitler! How is it that man is totally depraved. Frankly I'm a little offended by the accusation! Explain yourselves. humfp

Perhaps someone else can take this one? I must go and clean my garage so that my wife can get her car in it for the winter. I fear her more than I fear you. I will check back though and give an answer if no one else does.

 

[savedbygrace57]

OK....another question for you :twopistolsCalvinist! What's the deal with Total Depravity of man?

I mean, I'm not the best person, but I'm not as bad as some. I'm not Hitler! How is it that man is totally depraved. Frankly I'm a little offended by the accusation! Explain yourselves. humfp

Yes, Man is totally Depraved, that is why he must be born again. Being totally depraved does not mean one has to be a murderer or a thief, but one can be very sincere in their religion, treat their neighbors right, be very moral in public and private, give to charities and on and on and yet be totally depraved.

Isa said of man's righteousness, those things he does that are considered right things :

Isa 64:

6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[mlqurgw]

Quote from John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 3, Section 1

Is there a question in there some where or were you seeking to make a point? Just for the record I would agree with Calvin's statement as quoted.

 

[smaller]

Well, I believe that Christ died for all man, but not all men will embrace their salvation. Further, God has foreknowledge of who will and who will not respond. Those who will are the elect; they are predestined. Those who do not are left to their own free will, but that does not mean they can not be saved. I belive this is true for all men regardless of hearing the Gospel or not. I realize I just opened a CAN-O-Worms....and I'm not going to defend any of it, but rather if anyone wants to speak on it feel free.

We are factually advised of WHY unbelievers do not and CAN NOT believe. It has nothing to do with the 'free will' of man.

Deterninism in MOST forms accepts that the unbeliever is BLINDED, intentionally so, by GOD. And here is HOW in black on white SHOWING this to be a FACT apart from the WILL of THE MAN alone:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Any FREE WILL proponent obviously CAN NOT see that the CAUSE of unbelief and spiritual BLINDNESS is NOT solely of the MAN, but of A BLINDING SPIRIT that is NOT the MAN.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

ALL of us who now BELIEVE were ONCE thusly BLINDED.

We did not 'free' ourselves from that SPIRIT. God REMOVED that SPIRIT so that we could BELIEVE.

This same SPIRIT resides today on the people of ISRAEL as well, and was PUT UPON them BY GOD HIMSELF:

Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

NO MAN can REMOVE THIS BLINDING SPIRIT.

THAT BLINDING SPIRIT MUST BE REMOVED BY GOD as it was and IS GOD who places that SPIRIT.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

Huh? No...it definately says AFTER.

Heres the verse again:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

...maybe you can help me pay closer attention?

I aint going to argue with you. So be it, but you are wrong..

 

[Sissy]

Quote from John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin, Book 2, Chapter 2, Section 22

If the Gentiles have the righteousness of the law naturally engraven on their minds, we certainly cannot say that they are altogether blind as to the rule of life.