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What do Muslims think about Jesus?

Heidi said:
But the Muslims apparently feel that Mohammed who killed and lusted after women knows better who God is than Jesus was never found guilty of one sin. Is that correct? If so, they Muslims can put theire lives in the hands of a murderer rather than one who gave up his life for them, if they like, but they then deserve their fate. Jesus has proven his love for me by sacrificing his life for me. I'll believe someone like that any day over one who would kill me if he didn't like me!
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Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has no sins and nor Jesus (PBUH) because they are prophets. Do you think any prophet can commit sins?
And why Jesus needs to sacrifice his self for you to prove that he loves you, he can’t do this without killing himself?!!!!!
 
Mohammed sinned. Jesus had no sin because he was ALWAYS obedient to God from conception to His death.

yet another example of Equating mohammed with jesus!
 
'yet another example of Equating mohammed with jesus!'

Its nothing to do with equating Muhammed with Jesus. To Muslims, it doesnt matter how great the person is, no-one is worthy excect the creator of the universe - God. Even the bible affirms that noone who is born of woman can be compared to God.
 
Qasim786 said:
"... To Muslims, it doesnt matter how great the person is, no-one is worthy excect the creator of the universe - God..... "
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Gary: Not true. Muhammad boasted "...If you love Allah, then follow me (Mohammed)..." (Sura 3:31).
"Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah a beautiful pattern of (conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." (Sura 33:21).

So Muhammad did claim to be a role-model.

However, he failed.


Muhammad was a licentious man, a murderer, barbaric and unethical, a liar and a hypocrite. He was deceitful, inconsistent, immoral, lustful, a polygamist, an adulterer. He had slaves and concubines, a low regard for women. He encouraged wife beating.

Muhammad had little regard for the value of human life, especially those who opposed or exposed him. He instituted Jihad and called for the death of all who opposed him or Islam. Muhammad sent his men to kill his opponents in the middle of the night using deceit and lies. He was an assassin.

He showed signs of physical, spiritual and mental derangement. He was delusional and even attempted suicide. His wife reported that he was bewitched.

Muhammad massacred his prisoners of war indiscriminately. He was a criminal and a mass murderer. Muhammad raided merchant caravans and stole their goods. He was a highway robber. Muhammad made and then broke treaties. He was dishonest.

Muhammad cursed people and preached hatred towards other human beings.

Muhammad captured human beings and sold them or asked for a payment of a ransom to release them. He was a slave merchant and a terrorist.

Muhammad was sex-mad. Muhammad, at the age of 53, became aroused by a 9-year-old child. He was a paedophile. Muhammad forced himself on a captured woman on the same day that he killed her father, husband and many of her relatives. He was a rapist.

Evidence? Read more ---CLICK HERE---

:o
 
: Not true. Muhammad boasted "...If you love Allah, then follow me (Mohammed)..." (Sura 3:31).
"Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah a beautiful pattern of (conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." (Sura 33:21).

I stand by what i said, that no-one is worthy or WORSHIP, apart from God. Every prophet that came was supposed to be followed by his people. I which case this could be applied to any prophet, because they were the mouthpieces of God and were the role models for thier people. Moses's followers followed the role model of Moses, Jesus's followed the role model of Jesus and so on. Does this in any way show that should be worshipped. No. People were told to follow the message brought and the role model of the prophets. They were not to be worshipped.
 
God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just. (Quran 60:8)

God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:9)

For all those who think that we cannot deal kindly, with the Jews and the christians, or any non-muslim for that matter!
 
Qasim786 said:
"... To Muslims, it doesnt matter how great the person is, no-one is worthy excect the creator of the universe - God..... "
Click to expand...
Gary said:
Not true. Muhammad boasted "...If you love Allah, then follow me (Mohammed)..." (Sura 3:31).
"Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah a beautiful pattern of (conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." (Sura 33:21).

So Muhammad did claim to be a role-model.

However, he failed.


Muhammad was a licentious man, a murderer, barbaric and unethical, a liar and a hypocrite. He was deceitful, inconsistent, immoral, lustful, a polygamist, an adulterer. He had slaves and concubines, a low regard for women. He encouraged wife beating.

Muhammad had little regard for the value of human life, especially those who opposed or exposed him. He instituted Jihad and called for the death of all who opposed him or Islam. Muhammad sent his men to kill his opponents in the middle of the night using deceit and lies. He was an assassin.

He showed signs of physical, spiritual and mental derangement. He was delusional and even attempted suicide. His wife reported that he was bewitched.

Muhammad massacred his prisoners of war indiscriminately. He was a criminal and a mass murderer. Muhammad raided merchant caravans and stole their goods. He was a highway robber. Muhammad made and then broke treaties. He was dishonest.

Muhammad cursed people and preached hatred towards other human beings.

Muhammad captured human beings and sold them or asked for a payment of a ransom to release them. He was a slave merchant and a terrorist.

Muhammad was sex-mad. Muhammad, at the age of 53, became aroused by a 9-year-old child. He was a paedophile. Muhammad forced himself on a captured woman on the same day that he killed her father, husband and many of her relatives. He was a rapist.

Evidence? Read more ---CLICK HERE---
Click to expand...
Qasim786 said:
I stand by what i said, that no-one is worthy or WORSHIP, apart from God. Every prophet that came was supposed to be followed by his people. I which case this could be applied to any prophet, because they were the mouthpieces of God and were the role models for thier people. Moses's followers followed the role model of Moses, Jesus's followed the role model of Jesus and so on. Does this in any way show that should be worshipped. No. People were told to follow the message brought and the role model of the prophets. They were not to be worshipped.
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So do you consider the actions of Muhammad as described above to be something you aspire to? Is he your role-model in his actions?

:o
 
Dealing kindly with Jews and Christians..

Qasim786 said:
God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just. (Quran 60:8)

God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:9)

For all those who think that we cannot deal kindly, with the Jews and the christians, or any non-muslim for that matter!
Click to expand...

Very interesting that you conveniently quote Surah 60. That is the fourth of the ten Medina suras...

A few months after granting permission to fight in self-defense, the command was given making war (in self defense) a religious obligation. At first, the only enemies in the picture were the "unbelievers" of the Quraish tribe in Mecca, who were idol worshipers. They were the ones who had in a sense declared war on the Muslims. Starting with the battle of Uhud, the hypocrites (Arabs who claimed to be Muslims, but really did not believe) began to show themselves as enemies. In the beginning of this stage the Jews were not considered enemies because Muhammad was still expecting them to accept him as a prophet like Moses!

  • Sura 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is hell - an evil refuge (indeed)."
The Muslims continued to gain strength until the Meccans surrendered (in 630 AD). Most of the pagans of the city then became Muslims, so Muhammad and his followers were able to take over the city and cleanse the Ka’aba of some 360 idols resident there. At this point a new order was given to fit the new situation. By this time it was evident that the Jews would not accept Muhammad's claim to be a prophet, so the list of enemies now included all unbelievers - Jews and Christians as well as the pagans.

Now it is no longer just defensive fighting, but aggressive Jihad against all unbelievers is commanded. Since this is the final teaching of the Qur’an regarding Jihad, it is what is still in force today.

  • Sura 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book (i.e Christians and Jews), until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued....

    Sura 9:123 O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you, and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."

    Sura 5:36-38 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.

    Sura 5:54 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Read more about Jihad ... ---CLICK HERE---

:o :o
 
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Yes. Now what does that mean. It means (as Yusuf Ali's footnote explains) that the Muslims were told not too look to them for help and comfort, because, as the circumstances were, they were more likely to plot against them, than help the Muslims. This had happened in the lifetime of the Prophet. I dont think it is universally significant, but some may differ. The conditions were such that the Muslims were told to seek help from one another, and not those outside Islam, inorder to not hinder Islam's progress. Even now, if i needed help in a certain matter, i would go to a Muslim rather than someone outside of Islam. It was even more important then as Islam was only beginning then, and much weaker in size.
 
Very interesting that you conveniently quote Surah 60. That is the fourth of the ten Medina suras...

What are you trying to prove? Just because was revealed at an earlier time, does not mean that it does not count any more. Certain verses are given at specific times, whereas some are to be applied universally. Thats not to say that all verses revealed at a later date are the ones to implement for all times. There were certain laws that were gradually put into pracitise, for example the prohibition of alcohol did not come in one verse, but it was gradually laid down first by showing that there is a small amount of goodness that one can gain from alcohol, but that the loss is more than the profit and then by outlining that we should not come to prayer in a state of intoxication. We then get in a later surah, the total prohibition. But im not quite sure what red-herring you are trying to cover my eyes with here. Please explain if you can.(If Allah wills)
 
Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors....

Qasim786 said:
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Yes. Now what does that mean. It means (as Yusuf Ali's footnote explains) that the Muslims were told not too look to them for help and comfort, because, as the circumstances were, they were more likely to plot against them, than help the Muslims. This had happened in the lifetime of the Prophet. I dont think it is universally significant, but some may differ. The conditions were such that the Muslims were told to seek help from one another, and not those outside Islam, inorder to not hinder Islam's progress. Even now, if i needed help in a certain matter, i would go to a Muslim rather than someone outside of Islam. It was even more important then as Islam was only beginning then, and much weaker in size.
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Gary: So now you agree that you would not take Jews and Christians as your friends! See how you have changed your tune already. Also, you have not quoted Yusuf Ali fully.... I wonder why? He said about these verses...

Yusuf Ali said:
They (the Jews and Christians) are more likely to combine against you than to help you. And this happened more than once in the lifetime of the Apostle, and in after-ages again and again. He who associates with them (the Jews and Christians) and shares their counsels must be counted as of them. In the early days in Mecca the enemies were the pagan Quraish while Jews and Christians were respected. In Medina, after the Jews rejected Muhammad's claim of prophet-hood, the enemies of Islam grew to include the Jews and Christians.
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Gary: Of course the Jews rejected Muhammad! He was a false prophet! Now what you have NOT shown is where this verse is abrogated. If it is not abrogated, then it must apply still!

:-?
 
Jihad...

Qasim said:
What are you trying to prove? Just because was revealed at an earlier time, does not mean that it does not count any more. Certain verses are given at specific times, whereas some are to be applied universally. Thats not to say that all verses revealed at a later date are the ones to implement for all times.
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Gary: OK, please list which verses are for specific times and which verses are universal. How do you know that? I have listed a few of the last Jihad verses. Are they specific or universal? If you say they are specific, please quote the verses which abrogate them. Thanks.

:-? :-?
 
"Of course the Jews rejected Muhammad! He was a false prophet!"

Right!! Just Like Jesus was a False Prophet to them. The Jews rejected many prophets and killed many of them. They felt themselves a superier nation to any other who had been favoured by God (which they had been) but that didnt give them the right to reject the prophets. But one question still remains, why did Waraka, the devout christian recognise Prophet Muhammed as the prophet of Allah, that they had been waiting for, aswell as Bahira the chrisitan Monk knew that he was the seal of the prophets. Were they mysteriously decieved!

I havent changed my tone, what i said was that the verse about not taking Jews and Christians is aimed at a more specific time of the prophets life, and that it does not mean that Muslims are not supposed to be kind and act justly towards christians and Jews or anyone who are not fighting or persecuting you for your faith.
 
Gary: Of course the Jews rejected Muhammad! He was a false prophet!

Qasim: Right!!! Just Like Jesus was a False Prophet to them.

Gary: All the Apostles were Jews. The first converts to Christianity were Jews. Read Acts.

:)
 
Qasim786 said:
"Of course the Jews rejected Muhammad! He was a false prophet!"

Right!! Just Like Jesus was a False Prophet to them. The Jews rejected many prophets and killed many of them. They felt themselves a superier nation to any other who had been favoured by God (which they had been) but that didnt give them the right to reject the prophets. But one question still remains, why did Waraka, the devout christian recognise Prophet Muhammed as the prophet of Allah, that they had been waiting for, aswell as Bahira the chrisitan Monk knew that he was the seal of the prophets. Were they mysteriously decieved!

I havent changed my tone, what i said was that the verse about not taking Jews and Christians is aimed at a more specific time of the prophets life, and that it does not mean that Muslims are not supposed to be kind and act justly towards christians and Jews or anyone who are not fighting or persecuting you for your faith.
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If the Jews & Muslims understood forgiveness then there would be no problem between them, would there?
 
"If the Jews & Muslims understood forgiveness then there would be no problem between them, would there?"

If your talking about Israel and Palestine, their also many palestinian christians who oppose the Israeli occupation and slaughtering of palestinians thats been going on for the last 50 years, and are therefore in the same boat as the Muslims in that respect.

But with regards to the claims Muhammed was a false Prophet, why not apply the test that the bible gives about false prophets: "The Prophet that confesseth that Jesus is the Messiah, is of God." The Prophet Muhammed fits in nicely here since he alone confessed that Jesus Christ Was the promised messiah (Messiah=annointed one). The Jews levelled similar claims to Jesus that the christians are now claiming about Muhammed. (Peace be upon them both).

"Mr. Josh McDowell is a Biblical scholar who has researched the topic of the Jewish Talmud's view of Jesus. The Talmud, of course, is the ultimate authoritative body of Jewish tradition, comprising the Mishnah and Gemara. In Mr. McDowell's book, "Evidence that demands a verdict," he quotes extensively from the Jewish Talmud with regard to the official Jewish view of Jesus (pbuh). The following is a small sampling from this book:


"Tol'doth Yeshu. Jesus is referred to as 'Ben Pandera'." Note: 'Ben Pandera' means 'son of Pandera'. He was a Roman soldier the Jews allege to have raped Mary to produce the illegitimate son Jesus (God forbid).

Yeb. IV 3;49a: "Rabbi Shimeon Ben Azzai said (regarding Jesus): 'I found a genealogical roll in Jerusalem wherein was recorded, such-an-one is a bastard of an adulteress."

Joseph Klausner adds:

"Current editions of the Mishnah, add: 'To support the words of Rabbi Yehoshua' (who in the same Mishnah says: What is a bastard? Everyone who's parents are liable to death by the Beth Din), that Jesus is here referred to seems to be beyond doubt."


The Jews had adopted in their ancient references a system of referring to Jesus with code names when heaping upon his person allegations of evil and blasphemy. One good reference on this topic is "The Jewish Encyclopaedia," in twelve volumes. The following information is obtained from that book.


Under the heading of "Jesus in Jewish legend" (Vol. VII, page 170-173), we are told that Jesus is referred to in Jewish references by such code names as "that man," "that anonymous one," "Yeshu," "bastard," "son of Pandera," "son of Stada," "Balaam," (destroyer of the people) etc. Most allegations which are associated with Jesus (peace be upon him and his mother), concern themselves either with belittling the person of Jesus, ascribing to him illegitimate birth, ascribing to his mother Mary (pbuh) acts of whoredom, attributing to Jesus acts of black magic through the vain use of the given name of God, and attributing to him a shameful death as well as severe and denigrating punishment in the afterlife.


These references to Jesus in Jewish records and law claim that Jesus was born to a well known adulteress named "Mary," who conceived him through adultery with a Roman soldier who was named either "Pandera" or "Stada." Jesus is then claimed to have traveled to Egypt and entered into the service of magicians, he lusted after a woman and was excommunicated, he set up a brick as his god and led all of Israel into apostasy. He is claimed to have cut his magic formulas into his skin, by having taken a parchment containing the "declared name of God" and cut it into his skin in order to steal it from the Temple. All of his miracles were then performed through this stolen parchment which was later forcibly retrieved from him. It was Judas Iscarlot who volunteered to retrieve it from Jesus. An arial battle ensued between Judas and Jesus. Judas found that he could in no way touch Jesus so he "defiled" him. Judas emerged victorious and Jesus fled. Forty days before the condemnation of Jesus, a herald called upon anyone who could say anything in Jesus' favor. Not a single person came. The scholars of Israel then bound him to a pillar, however, his disciples attacked them and freed him. He disguised himself and rode an ass into Jerusalem, however, Judas saw through his disguise and exposed him.


We are told that Jesus was then taken to be hung on the tree as the law required, however, he had conjured all of the trees with his black magic and none of them would receive him. Finally they hung him up on a large cabbage stalk which received him. After Jesus' body was placed in the tomb it disappeared and his disciples tried to claim that he had risen, however, it was later discovered that "Judas the gardener" had taken Jesus' body and used it as a dam to hold back the water in his garden. Jesus' body was then retrieved and flung before the Queen. In this manner the lies of the apostles were silenced and there was great rejoicing throughout the land. This same encyclopaedia aleges that the Qur'an "alludes to" the insult delivered to the body of Jesus in the streets of Jerusalem. A claim that is not only preposterous and unfounded, however, the authors are hereby publicly challenged to produce the text of the Qur'an that "alludes to" such evil claims against Jesus, peace be upon him and his mother Mary."

Now you are doing the same to Muhammed. The Muslims dare not speak about the holy prophets in such a manner. We love and revere all the prophets and hold them all in high esteem.
 
Qasim said:
Now you are doing the same to Muhammed. The Muslims dare not speak about the holy prophets in such a manner. We love and revere all the prophets and hold them all in high esteem.
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I have zero respect for Muhammad. He was a thug... a deceiver, a thief, a rapist, a murderer. Islamic sources prove that.

:-?
 
I do not call a murderer holy. If you call murder holy, then you haven't a clue who God is. As Jesus says; "For where your heart is, there will be your treasure." No wonder the Muslims justify killing! When Christians kill, they are disobeying Christ. But when Muslims kill, they are obeying allah! You can put your trust in a murderer if you like. I prefer to trust a man who GAVE UP his life for me rather than takes it if he doesn't like me. Even children can tell which one is more trustworthy!
 
The topic of this thread is how Moslem's view jesus Christ.

Islam teaches that He was a prophet and an extremely godly man, but NOT the Son of God, nor the Saviour of the World, Nor the Lamb of God that would "Take away the sins of the world".

These are the fundamental beliefs of "Christianity". On these essential points Moslems and Christians differ, to the Moslem these are Heretical beliefs, and no Moslem can denigh what their laws teach concerning "Heretics".
 
Sharing the Gospel with Muslims - by John Gilchrist

I think that the following chapters are an excellent witness to what Muslims and Christians believe about Jesus Christ. There is some common ground....

:)
 
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