What do Muslims think about Jesus?

[DivineNames]

You are only the liar or the idiot

read

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have read that Islam (or the major historical interpretation) demands war against Jews and Christians. If this is the case, to talk of Muslims being kind to them is fairly ridiculous. (At the level of doctrine anyway).

No thats wrong, In Islam we are not permitted to demand war on any group, unless we are forced to, i.e if we are being fought against. And even then, with strict conditions and rules, no woman or children or any non-combatants must be hurt. With regards to how Muslims should treat the people of the scripture, read the following.

Unfortunately, Qasim hasn't backed that up yet. Even if he did, that would only be at the level of doctrine. That wouldn't show that Muslims have not been involved in offensive war as the historical reality, and of course, they have been involved in offensive war. What you said is completely false.

 

[Muhsen]

I posted before "It is known that all the wars which Muslims waded was for the self-defense from the aggression."

And you told me "you are liar or idiot we are talking about different topic" but in fact you did talk. and I have showed you your post

 

[DivineNames]

I posted before "It is known that all the wars which Muslims waded was for the self-defense from the aggression."

And you told me "you are liar or idiot we are talking about different topic" but in fact you did talk. and I have showed you your post

My post:

"Perhaps I am wrong, but I have read that Islam (or the major historical interpretation) demands war against Jews and Christians. If this is the case, to talk of Muslims being kind to them is fairly ridiculous."


What I put forward was that Islam demands offensive war against Jews and Christians. I didn't claim that Islam demands that they be converted.


And you told me "you are liar or idiot we are talking about different topic"


I never actually said this. You are mixing up two different posts.

I said you were either a liar or an idiot for saying, "It is known that all the wars which Muslims waded was for the self-defense from the aggression".


I said in the next post, with regard to forced conversions, "anyway, we aren't even talking about forced conversions..."

 

[Heidi]

I posted before "It is known that all the wars which Muslims waded was for the self-defense from the aggression."

And you told me "you are liar or idiot we are talking about different topic" but in fact you did talk. and I have showed you your post

So if a person has decided that you are threatening, then he can kill you. Is that correct? What if he has misinterpreted your motives? This is why Jesus tells us NOT to kill ANYBODY. He also shows us how to forgive others. Therefore, NO Christian can justify murder. I find it sad that you would prefer to worship someone who DOES justify murder. But as Jesus says; "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." We worship the God who agrees with what's in our hearts.

I'm glad I can forgive my enemies instead of murdering them because they are no worse than me. We ALL have envy, greed, lust, sloth, anger, lust, & pride in our hearts. Those who don't admit this simply have a larger amount of pride in them. If we all forgave eeach other, there would be NO wars or killing! But after the Muslims and the Jews kill each other off for land that will be gone when they die, then how did that benefit them? Valuing material objects more than the human being leaves nothing to take with you to heaven except the notion that you valued land more than people. But unfortunately, we will always have people in the world who justify killing which means there will ALWAYS be wars and murder.

 

[YESHUA]

I posted before "It is known that all the wars which Muslims waded was for the self-defense from the aggression."

And you told me "you are liar or idiot we are talking about different topic" but in fact you did talk. and I have showed you your post

So if a person has decided that you are threatening, then he can kill you. Is that correct? What if he has misinterpreted your motives? This is why Jesus tells us NOT to kill ANYBODY. He also shows us how to forgive others. Therefore, NO Christian can justify murder. I find it sad that you would prefer to worship someone who DOES justify murder. But as Jesus says; "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." We worship the God who agrees with what's in our hearts.

I'm glad I can forgive my enemies instead of murdering them because they are no worse than me. We ALL have envy, greed, lust, sloth, anger, lust, & pride in our hearts. Those who don't admit this simply have a larger amount of pride in them. If we all forgave each other, there would be NO wars or killing! But after the Muslims and the Jews kill each other off for land that will be gone when they die, then how did that benefit them? Valuing material objects more than the human being leaves nothing to take with you to heaven except the notion that you valued land more than people. But unfortunately, we will always have people in the world who justify killing which means there will ALWAYS be wars and murder.

shalom Heidi
regarding your remark about Jews and arabs killing each other over land is not justified at all the Jews is not killing any body over land they simply want to live in peace as any normal human being and thats a fact I should after being there enough times.
what do you know about the conflict thats going on in the M.E? do know what the Bible says about it do you know what the GOD of YISRAEL has to say about it I guess not
so please do your self and others a favor and read about it in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament and don't give the one oh but we don't believe in the Old Testament because we have the New Testament because without the Old Testament you wouldn't even have the New Testament
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA, coming soon
chana

 

[Muhsen]

So if a person has decided that you are threatening, then he can kill you. Is that correct? What if he has misinterpreted your motives? This is why Jesus tells us NOT to kill ANYBODY. He also shows us how to forgive others. Therefore, NO Christian can justify murder. I find it sad that you would prefer to worship someone who DOES justify murder. But as Jesus says; "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." We worship the God who agrees with what's in our hearts.

I'm glad I can forgive my enemies instead of murdering them because they are no worse than me. We ALL have envy, greed, lust, sloth, anger, lust, & pride in our hearts. Those who don't admit this simply have a larger amount of pride in them. If we all forgave eeach other, there would be NO wars or killing! But after the Muslims and the Jews kill each other off for land that will be gone when they die, then how did that benefit them? Valuing material objects more than the human being leaves nothing to take with you to heaven except the notion that you valued land more than people. But unfortunately, we will always have people in the world who justify killing which means there will ALWAYS be wars and murder.

If you follow Jesus, why Christians and Jews kill Muslims in Palestine and Iraq?
Did Jesus tell them? as Muslims, to make others refrain to call us killers. What we have to do. Have we to stay waiting other to kill us to occupy our country to steal our money and oil? Without self-defense. What you will do if somebody come and killed your family and drive you out of your home and steal your money. What you will do it's logically you will defends your self


Islam doesn’t like killing it's forbidden and I have posted the proofs many verses from Quran.

 

[Muhsen]

shalom Heidi
regarding your remark about Jews and arabs killing each other over land is not justified at all the Jews is not killing any body over land they simply want to live in peace as any normal human being and thats a fact I should after being there enough times.
what do you know about the conflict thats going on in the M.E? do know what the Bible says about it do you know what the GOD of YISRAEL has to say about it I guess not
so please do your self and others a favor and read about it in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament and don't give the one oh but we don't believe in the Old Testament because we have the New Testament because without the Old Testament you wouldn't even have the New Testament
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA, coming soon
chana

Just forgive my ignorance. Who kill Palestinians every Day? Who destroys the hoses over its owner? who kill childrens and women? Who commit crimes against humanity?


Israel's War Crimes against Palestinians

We all have a general idea of what a war crime is, so I am not going to elaborate upon that term here. But there are different degrees of heinousness for war crimes. In particular are the more serious war crimes denominated "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the start of the Al Aqsa Intifada, the world has seen those inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian People living in occupied Palestine: e.g., willful killing of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army and Israel's illegal paramilitary settlers. These Israeli "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention mandate universal prosecution for their perpetrators, whether military or civilian, as well as prosecution for their commanders, whether military or civilian, including Israel's political leaders.

Israel's Crimes Against Humanity against Palestinians

But I want to focus for a moment on Israel's "crime against humanity" against the Palestinian People -- as determined by the U.N. Human Rights Commission itself, set up pursuant to the requirements of the United Nations Charter. What is a "crime against humanity"? This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. And in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish People.
The paradigmatic example of a "crime against humanity" is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People. This is where the concept of crime against humanity came from. And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian People: Crimes against humanity. Legally, just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews.

The Precursor to Genocide

Moreover, a crime against humanity is the direct historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of "crime against humanity." And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.
In fairness, you will note that the U.N. Human Rights Commission did not go so far as to condemn Israel for committing genocide against the Palestinian People. But it has condemned Israel for committing crimes against humanity, which is the direct precursor to genocide. And I submit that if something is not done quite soon by the American People and the International Community to stop Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian People, it could very well degenerate into genocide, if Israel is not there already. And in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire--one who has already committed genocide in the past.
Mr. Francis A. Boyle is a Professor in International Law.


Some of the documented Zionism massacres details

http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass03.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass01.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass04.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass02.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass05.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass06.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass07.htm
http://www.palestinehistory.com/mass08.htm



http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine46.html

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine52.html

http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/E ... _3of10.htm

http://emperors-clothes.com/gilwhite/deiryassin.htm
http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more. ... _0_1_0_M10

 

[YESHUA]

shalom Heidi
regarding your remark about Jews and arabs killing each other over land is not justified at all the Jews is not killing any body over land they simply want to live in peace as any normal human being and thats a fact I should after being there enough times.
what do you know about the conflict thats going on in the M.E? do know what the Bible says about it do you know what the GOD of YISRAEL has to say about it I guess not
so please do your self and others a favor and read about it in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament and don't give the one oh but we don't believe in the Old Testament because we have the New Testament because without the Old Testament you wouldn't even have the New Testament
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA, coming soon
chana

Just forgive my ignorance. Who kill Palestinians every Day? Who destroys the hoses over its owner? who kill childrens and women? Who commit crimes against humanity?


Yeah I will forgive your ignorance, so Israelis kill Palestinians every day and in you view they have been doing so since god knows when right so my question it you is what are 1.2 million arabs doing in Israel?
and how many busses have the Israelis blown up lately? and how many Israeli children have had explosives strapped around them in order to kill as many Arabs as possible, and by the rate of this killing by the Israelis there shouldn't be that many Arabs left should there?
And the definition of a Martyr is not one who blows himself in order to kill as many people as possible its the other way around my friend, a suicide bomber is never a Martyr his a murder nothing else, and your lucky its only houses the IDF is destroying not the terrorist a house for the lifes of innocent people is pretty cheap don't you think.? And what about the Christians who have been forced to flee from Palestine because of abuse from the muslims is that a crime against humanity or is it just your definition of humanity that counts and not forgetting the slaughter that is going on by the muslims in the Islamic countries is that a crime against humanity? answer if you can and please not the usual its a liar
shalom and love in the name of YESHUA coming soon
chana

 

[Muhsen]

What are about 5 million Jews doing in Palestine?

You think you came and occupied Palestine and kill Palestinians every day without any sacrifices.
I think Israel will not have security unless they end the occupation and end killing the Palestinians

 

[Heidi]

So why kill Jews at all? Unless of course you value land more than human beings. Some people value money more than human beings, and yet others put human life at the bottom of the list.

You still haven't answered my question about why allah appeared THOUSANDS of years after men were on this earth.

 

[Muhsen]

it's Rant, what's your laws man, anybody on this world, face enemy and occupied his country and commit crimes against him and against his children and his family it's logically to fight him, isn't it? So its logically our earth more value than this enemy we do not put any value for him. they are criminals and killers.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Okay, I've let this arguement go on long enough. The Topic is what do Muslims think about Jesus, stick to that topic. If you must argue the ethics around the Iraq war, go to polotics or general talk.
If this thread continues down this bunny trail, it will be locked.

 

[Nicolaj]

Muslims believe Jesus was a liar.

 

[Heidi]

Muslims believe Jesus was a liar.

But they hail him as a great prophet which shows the contradictions in their belief sytem.

 

[Qasim786]

'Muslims believe Jesus was a liar.'

How do we believe he was a liar? We simply believe that he not God incarnate, nor was he the 'begotten' son of God.

The Jews go to one extreme and say he was an imposter, and the christians go to another, hailing him as God Almighty in human form. Muslims simply believe that he was a mighty messenger of God, and there were many messengers before him.

 

[Nicolaj]

'Muslims believe Jesus was a liar.'

How do we believe he was a liar? We simply believe that he not God incarnate, nor was he the 'begotten' son of God.

The Jews go to one extreme and say he was an imposter, and the christians go to another, hailing him as God Almighty in human form. Muslims simply believe that he was a mighty messenger of God, and there were many messengers before him.

If we go to extremes that means you think Jesus went to extremes...because it is his words we follow and believe...If I am wrong...please explain what you mean..when you say we are extreme for believing Jesus, when he tells us he is the son of God..


John 5



17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.



18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.



20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.


22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.


37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


Do you believe or not these above words that Jesus spoke?

If you do, you believe his is the son of God...

If you don't...you believe he was lying.

You cannot say you don't believe and still say, you don't call him a liar...that isn't possible.

 

[Qasim786]

As stated many times before, 'Son of God' in the bible is not unsusual, or specific to Jesus (peace be upon him).

"...Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3:38)
"...Israel is My son, even My firstborn:" (Exodus 4:22)
"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9)
"...the Lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art My son: this day have I begotten thee." (Psalms 2:7)
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 18:14)
"Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever."
(1 Chronicles 22:10), (also 1 Chronicles 28:6)

As you can see God has many sons in the Bible, it meant nothing more that a righteous servant of God.

In John 10:30 Jesus says,'I and the Father are one'

The context begins at verse 23. The Jews are are questioning Jesus saying 'if thou be the christ tell us plainly' alleging that he was speaking ambiguously, which of course is not the case, because Jesus put forth his claim and had told them clearly that he is the christ, but they did not believe him. Jesus says 'The Miracles, I do im my FATHERS NAME show who i am'. What can this be interpreted to mean. He is trying to emphasize that the Miracles that he is diong are not his works. We see the same in other passages such as "...I cast out devils by the Spirit of God then the kingdom of God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)
"I can of mine own self do nothing " (John 5:30)
"I with the finger of God cast out devils" (Luke 11:20)

"Show who i am" - the miracles that i perform by the power of God does indeed prove that God sent me, they prove that i am the christ.

"But you dont believe, because you are not my sheep" - You are not my disciples or close followers, therefore you do not accept me as the christ. '' My sheep listen to my voice, i know them and they follow me." This is an important line and it shows that his sheep are his followers and know and accept him. "I give them eternal life" - Because they have accepted me, and followed my message and example, they will live in heaven for eternity. "Noone can steal them out of my hand. MY FATHER GAVE my sheep to me. HE IS GREATER THAN ALL, and no person can steal my sheep out of my Fathers hand." To see that once a man has accepted faith, he remains in faith and cannot be diverted, and Jesus is emphasizing that he himself as a teacher will do his best to see to that promise, God almighty also sees to the promise that once a man has accepted faith, he remains in faith. Verse 30 "I and my father are one", in purpose me and God are one.

Consider John 17:21 Where Jesus Says : " Father, I Pray, that they can be one. As you are in me and i am in you , i pray that they can be one in us. Then the world will believe that you sent me. "

The Greek word for one - hen, which is the same greek word that is used in John Chapter 10:30 where Jesus says i and the father are one. The word one is used to denote one in purpose. Both in 17:21 and 10:30. He is not claiming to be the same as God!

http://www.thegreatestpuzzle.com/sons.htm Also read this

 

[Nicolaj]

And you believe Jesus was no more than this because Mohammed tells you so...
and you take his word for that....but we are not supposed to believe Jesus.

 

[Qasim786]

No, i believe all this because it is what the bible states and it confirms the Quran. I havent come to the Quran, all those references were from the bible.

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." Quran 17:81

 

[Nicolaj]

No, i believe all this because it is what the bible states and it confirms the Quran. I havent come to the Quran, all those references were from the bible.

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." Quran 17:81

Where in the Bible actually does it tell us Jesus is not the son of God?...

Some Muslims say...because the bible is corrupt and man as changed it to look that way...though you are saying the Bible says he is not......

If you think because of prophets, people call God father in the Bible...means that Jesus is not....that is no proof....only your intereptation of it....

You have no proof like I have none...I have ony my faith he is...with the words he spoke...


Where in the Bible does it state another prophet was coming to show us the true way after Jesus left/died whatever?

Why would we need another covenent with God... (the Koran) so soon after Jesus gave himself up for our sins? Muslims don't believe Jesus died at all on the cross....do they...?

Do Muslims think his death was staged......what reason do Muslims believe Jesus came for?....


What do you think is so wrong with Chrisitianity that God so quickly his mind and now wanted the new religion to be Islam..