Ecc 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The LXX translates the Hebrew word ruah H7307 as “spirit”, it should be translated as “breath” G4157..
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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What does it means, man was made in the Image of God?
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The LXX translates the Hebrew word ruah H7307 as “spirit”, it should be translated as “breath” G4157..
Carry_Your_Name
Job 34:14 - If He should set His heart on it,
If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath,
Job 34:15 - All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.
The breath of man belongs to the Spirit of God.
What returns to dust is man.
Man is what was formed from the ground in God’s image.
God’s image returns to dust.
Job 34:14 - If He should set His heart on it,
If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath,
And man would return to dust.
The breath of man belongs to the Spirit of God.
What returns to dust is man.
Man is what was formed from the ground in God’s image.
God’s image returns to dust.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
"Father, into your hand I commit my spirit!" (Lk. 23:46)Carry_Your_Name
Job 34:14 - If He should set His heart on it,
If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath,
Job 34:15 - All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.
The breath of man belongs to the Spirit of God.
What returns to dust is man.
Man is what was formed from the ground in God’s image.
God’s image returns to dust.
After three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them (the two witnesses). and they stood on their feet. (Rev. 11:11)
We know he died, so he was committing his life into the hands of his Father.
Stephen said a similar thing before he died. Except he committed his life into the hand of Jesus.
The Father raised Jesus from the dead, and Jesus will raise Stephen.
How is that the idea when Jesus is talking about its destruction? What would his point be when it goes without saying that mam cannot restore life to man? You’re actually making Jesus say nothing of importance at all, which completely does away with the clear seriousness of the statement.
As I have told you before, words have multiple meanings and the context determines the meaning.Mat 16:24 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
Mat 16:25 - “For whoever desires to save his life(SOUL)will lose it, but whoever loses his life(SOUL)for My sake will find(or save)it.
Mat 16:26 - “For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul(LIFE)? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul(LIFE)?
Mat 16:27 - “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
If a man loses his LIFE or SOUL for Jesus sake, he will save or find it.
If a man desires to save his LIFE or SOUL for his own sake, he will lose it.
Again, that doesn’t fit the verse in question.
You must always post your sources. That looks like Thayer’s, for which you conveniently left out the rest. That shows a lack of honesty. Here is the entire entry:
Thayer Definition
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Then please address my post about Jesus’s statment.
Not necessarily.
Be careful in arguing to a “biblical definition,” when there can be multiple definitions and when the NT often makes more clear things that were stated in the OT.
"This wonderful thing which is a soul, a thing created by God to give man His image and likeness as an unquestionable sign of His Most Holy Paternity, shows signs of the qualities characteristic of Him Who creates it. It is therefore intelligent, spiritual, free, immortal, like the Father Who created it." — Jesus (The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. III)
You can read about my source in the opening post here.
When we compare what Matthew says with what Luke says we understand better what’s being said by Matthew.
Man can kill your body but not take your life completely because God can raise the body and restore your life(soul)
However, God can both kill the body, and the soul(life) by raising you again, and then cast your body and soul or life into Gehenna, killing you completely. That’s a second death from which there is no more resurrection.
I can't agree with this--sorry! ;(
A man is not a "man" until he actually has a human spirit in him! Notice that he is called a "living soul" only after God breathes life into him? So, in my understanding, he is not a living, breathing human being unttil he actually has life animating him. He is not a "non-living soul," but he is not a "soul" at all yet--not until he receives the breath of life.
We read in the Scriptures that Man is like a container, or vessel, that has been filled with something that is spiritual, which we call the "living soul." If the spirit is removed, the encasement of the body is no better than pot shards. Or, am I missing something?
In my view, the human soul is one and the same as the human spirit. When that spirit enters the physical body, it is the man assuming control of his body. When the spirit leaves that physical body, the man is gone, and the body is dead.
When we speak of a "man" before he even has a soul, we are speaking, lingually, of the man "to be." If we speak of the man after he has passed on, and the body is dead, we speak of the body being the "man" only in the sense that "he was."
Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18Both thorns and thistles it shall [f]bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
It's a poetic way of saying that Man is not just a spirit-being, but he is also a physical being. The spirit-man can lose his physical grounding on the earth.
The idea, I think, is that earth was made to be an eternal paradise for those who live in God's image. But when we choose another course, and refuse to reflect who God is, we will be eternally removed, like a burn pile permanently removes refuse.
So though we will lose our "grounding" on the earth, ie our physical bodies, we can have them resurrected by the power of Christ. He forgives us, and God raises us up.
When the Bible says that we are "dust," it is only saying that part of our existence is the bodily encasement for our human spirits. Once our spirits are gone from that body, it is no longer *us.*
Nor are we strictly "dust" now. We are only "dust" with respect to our encasement in physical bodies. When our human spirits leave our bodies, the "dust" we return to will no longer be the residence for our human spirits and will therefore not be *us.*
There are liberties taken in literary vehicles of expression. These various conventions must be understood or we will over-literalize things and not properly understand what is being said.
Oh, I am a we. Thanks.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
More often than not it’s the other way, NT is the continuation of the OT, quotes and references everywhere, to make them clear you have to check them out in the OT. This definition of human soul originated from Gen. 2:7, and that should apply to all other mentions of soul in the Bible.
My main point was to debunk this false concept of “body, spirit and soul” trinity, some people erroneously extrapolate the holy Trinity to other things in other areas such as this; but just because God is three in one doesn’t mean we are, body, spirit and soul are not three distinct co-existing entities. According to Gen. 2:7, the body formed from the dust is activated by the spirit, and BECOMES a living being, so body + spirit = soul.
Yes, Luke does add some understanding.
Luk 12:4 “I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do.
Luk 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! (ESV)
First, clearly the killing of the body is not the killing of the soul--there is "nothing more that they can do." Second, you are reading into the passage the idea that "God can raise the body and restore your life(soul)" and "then cast your body and soul or life into Gehenna, killing you completely." Besides, how is that supposed to cause one to fear God? The text only says, "after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell." There is no mention of raising the body, restoring life, and then casting into hell. It's probably best to just stick with what the text states.
Except that it doesn’t seem to work in every case. Context determines meaning.
Sticking to the text is what I’m doing.
I don’t understand why you refuse to stick to the text of both Moses and Paul who describe the creation of man..why do you deny it?
They say man became a living soul and you say he was given one.
You might want to double check because nowhere is “Immortal soul” found in Scripture. That’s teaching of the RCC.
An immortal soul is a soul that never dies.
Souls are found dying all over scripture.
Adam, who was a living soul, returned to dust.
8 souls were saved in the flood. The other souls died.
A dead body is a dead soul.
Where is it said a soul is immortal?
Nowhere, because that would directly contradict Moses and Paul, not to mention so many others.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Haven't I already done that in post #55? Jesus's teaching in Matt. 10:28 is revealed in Rev. 20, destruction of both body and soul is the second death in the Lake of Fire. The last book is titled Revelation for a reason, the bible interprets itself.
Mortal means to die.
Immortal means to NOT die.
An immortal soul does NOT die.
The Catholic scholar told me man is a body with an immortal soul inside him. And that the immortal soul is the real person.
IOW, the real person is an immortal soul and never dies.
I have no idea what Bible they have. It’s certainly not any one I’ve ever seen.
They take the passage: fear no man who can kill your body but not you soul, as “proving” their claim.
But God can kill both the body and soul. Therefore, the soul is NOT immortal, but mortal.
They told me the soul is immortal from man but not from God. Which contradicts the meaning of immortal.
But souls are being killed by man throughout scripture.
Then they say, “You don’t know what death means”.
According to scripture, Adam became a living soul when the breath of life was breathed into his face. He was not a living soul before that.
The breath Adam breathes is not the man(Adam).The man is what was formed from the ground.
Adam was told that HE was dust, and to dust HE would return.
That means that the living soul he had become, became a dead soul. A soul that no longer was breathing.
So death means to not be living or alive.
And life means to not be dead.
Death means dead,
Alive means living.
The RCC has brought their own philosophy, like that of Plato and Socrates, into the scriptures, and found a few verses, which on the surface, can convince someone who knows no better.
However, those who do know better, can easily see that their idea is contradicted throughout the Bible.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Spirits are immortal in this world, can't be killed with any physical means, but not so in God's kingdom. Their fate was sealed long ago in Ps. 82:6-7. These are the same "sons of God" in Gen. 6:2 and Job 1:6, they are divine beings like God, and they are EVIL. They mustn't be conflated with us the adopted sons and daughters of God through Christ, you know. These are the minions who are with Satan, and they'll be cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan. Anybody who worships Satan is possessed by one of these spirits. Die "like" men indicates they were supposed to be immortal, but die they will in the end.
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
Immortal means not subject to death. If subject to death, not immortal.