What God Wants

[scorpia]

[quote="Spirit Driven":fc4c2]
Our God is awesome, he wanted no man left in any doubt at all about this agenda.... so he chose the last person on Earth you thought you would hear this from....

Did the Lord God Jesus Christ say that He chose Paul as the last person on Earth to whom mankind would hear God's Word? What about after Paul's death? Did God instructed Paul to tell the people that mankind will just study and learn things of God directly from the bible itselfj? Isn't it that even without the bible, God can teach us all the original contents of the real and authentic Holy Scriptures which God allowed men to have it be written?

You missed my point completly....., so I will spell it out for you.

Paul was called as an Apostle of Christ by God, because God wanted to show an example of how nobody would be lost to him.

Saul of Tarsus was a persecutor of those who believed in Jesus, Saul was the sort of person todays Hell preachers would declare is going to burn in Hell forever.

Saul of Tarsus did not come to Jesus willingly, God bent him to his Will but he did with Grace, Saul was overwhelmed by the grace of God through Christ Jesus..... one day so will all the remaining die hard non believers in Jesus.


Grace and Peace to you[/quote:fc4c2]
I have nothing against these things above but just on your phrase "God chose the last person on earth" which other preachers also preach to many in like manner saying that Paul is the last among the apostles, hence the bible is already complete and God is not talking anymore to anyone today. It is in this premise that I came to ask those questions not only to you but to all. Again I am saying that this is the only point that I am driving on in this issue at hand. God bless you.

 

[scorpia]

Scorpia - may I ask you, what do you say the gospel is?

The gospel is the testimony of God to mankind which deals with the reality of the existence of God in His own way so that whoever may read it may call on, come direct to the Lord God in the right way and have God as their only Good Pastor and Teacher in their whole life so that they may attain salvation and eternal life from the Lord God himself and not from the gospel.[/quote]

You don't make sense scorpia. Eternal life is not attained by anything that man can do. Salvation is by faith - which is a gift from God.

You asked me what do I say the gospel is and I did give you my answer. Did I give you a nonsense answer with respect to what do I say the gospel is? Now you are accusing me of making no sense with respect to attaining eternal life because according to you salvation is attain by faith - which is a gift from God, isn't it that calling on and coming to the Lord God in the right way and having God as their only Good Pastor and Teacher in their whole life is the best description and definition of what the phrase "FAITH IN GOD" is all about? How about you, what do say the phrase "FAITH IN GOD" is in your present belief and understanding?

You seem to be advocating something different while showing little regard for scripture.

Put God himself over and above the scriptures, the bible, and other holy writings, ALWAYS. That's all I'm advocating for, no more, no less. God himself, alive and real is more than the scriptures because God himself is our salvation and eternal life..

 

[unred typo]

Mutzrein wrote: Eternal life is not attained by anything that man can do. Salvation is by faith - which is a gift from God.

That makes it sound like easy-believe-ism, Mutz. Let me rephrase that for you:
Salvation can’t be earned by anything we do or say. The law of sin and death requires that we die. The gift of God is the blood of his only begotten son to be our sacrifice for sin that we couldn’t pay for.

Eternal life is the result of being in Christ, putting to death our old self on his cross and rising with him by the Spirit that lives in us. If we die with him, we will be raised with him.

Grace is unmerited favor of God toward all mankind in that he would be willing to save any and all who come to him, that believe in the words spoken by Christ enough to actually follow and do what he said to do in order to be saved from sin and death.

Faith is having a trust in the living words of Christ to love, forgive, be merciful, humble, and turn the other cheek when we are wronged, etc. Basically, being a chump and a nice guy, knowing that in the world, nice guys finish last but believing Jesus who said that in his kingdom, the last shall be first.

 

[scorpia]

Faith is having a trust in the living words of Christ to love, forgive, be merciful, humble, and turn the other cheek when we are wronged, etc. Basically, being a chump and a nice guy, knowing that in the world, nice guys finish last but believing Jesus who said that in his kingdom, the last shall be first.

You did make a good start but derailed yourself in this part which says "Faith is having a trust in the living words of Christ to love, forgive, be merciful, humble, and turn the other cheek when we are wronged, etc". It should have been better should you have said "Faith is having a trust in the living Christ who is our salvation and eternal life", plain and simple words but totally credited to God as our act of true faith in God.

 

[mutzrein]

You don't make sense scorpia. Eternal life is not attained by anything that man can do. Salvation is by faith - which is a gift from God.

You asked me what do I say the gospel is and I did give you my answer. Did I give you a nonsense answer with respect to what do I say the gospel is? Now you are accusing me of making no sense with respect to attaining eternal life because according to you salvation is attain by faith - which is a gift from God, isn't it that calling on and coming to the Lord God in the right way and having God as their only Good Pastor and Teacher in their whole life is the best description and definition of what the phrase "FAITH IN GOD" is all about? How about you, what do say the phrase "FAITH IN GOD" is in your present belief and understanding?

This is from a post I made recently in another thread.

One day a child of mine asked me, “Dad, why are we so poor?†I said, “What makes you think we are poor?†And he told me of all the things others he knew, did and had. So I said to him, “Son, when you go bed at night you don’t have to worry about whether you’ll be warm and safe in your bed. It’s already provided for you. When you wake up in the morning, you don’t have to worry about whether there will be breakfast for you. It’s already provided. The clothes you wear, your food, your schooling, the home you live in and the security of a father that loves you. They are all yours. You have everything you need. “And,†I said, “this is the same relationship I have with my heavenly father. As I walk in the provision of his love every day I know that all of my needs have already been met. And yours are too.â€Â

And this is what faith is. We don’t have to worry about anything because we know that while we walk in the provision of a loving heavenly Father, whatever the circumstance, He cares and will provide for His own. And so our lives become a walk of faith. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to worry. We just need to dwell in Him. And this is the righteousness that we have in Christ. To those who are His son’s and daughters, His provision has already been made.

By Gods grace, through Christ alone, we have been born into His family as sons and heirs of the living God. And by reason of our relationship to Him, the gift of faith enables us to dwell in His provision day by day. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to be anxious for anything because we know God will, rather, has already provided. And this is the inheritance we have through Christ. It is our confidence that even as the gospel was preached in advance to Abraham, the man of faith - to whom God credited righteousness because he believed God and trusted in His provision. This is the same righteousness imputed to us by faith that is inherent in any child who trusts in the provision of all things from his father.

So, faith is not an act of the will or even a state of mind. It is position of implicit trust. And when this is so, we walk as Jesus walked – doing the will of our Father in heaven.

 

[unred typo]

Scorpia wrote to Mutz: The gospel is the testimony of God to mankind which deals with the reality of the existence of God in His own way so that whoever may read it may call on, come direct to the Lord God in the right way and have God as their only Good Pastor and Teacher in their whole life so that they may attain salvation and eternal life from the Lord God himself and not from the gospel.

Scorpia asked Mutz: Did I give you a nonsense answer with respect to what do I say the gospel is?


Yes, you did. You said, “ The gospel is the testimony of God….. that whoever may read it may call on, come direct to …God….so that they may attain salvation ….from… God himself and not from the gospel.â€Â

If they read the gospel, and do what God himself has commanded us to do, they are following God directly because he will take those words and interpret them in our lives on a daily basis. Forgive as you have been forgiven, for instance, will become something like, “Why are you punishing your brother for calling you a dork by not loaning him your weed whacker? Is that being humble and turning the other cheek?â€Â

You see, the two work together to lead us in the narrow way. They are not separable.

Scorpia wrote to me: You did make a good start but derailed yourself in this part which says "Faith is having a trust in the living words of Christ to love, forgive, be merciful, humble, and turn the other cheek when we are wronged, etc". It should have been better should you have said "Faith is having a trust in the living Christ who is our salvation and eternal life", plain and simple words but totally credited to God as our act of true faith in God.

How do you think we have faith in God without believing what he said to do and actually doing it? Do you think God feels threatened by our deeds of doing what he said, that we might somehow claim a right to demand eternal life? LOL. I think anyone who stands before God will melt into a puddle in his pants if they should even entertain such ridiculous notions. Do you think he is so insecure that he would be afraid of losing a particle of his glory if we could do what he commands us to do? Do you ask your children to do the impossible so you can humiliate them in their attempts to please you? What are you thinking here?

 

[scorpia]

This is from a post I made recently in another thread.

One day a child of mine asked me, “Dad, why are we so poor?†I said, “What makes you think we are poor?†And he told me of all the things others he knew, did and had. So I said to him, “Son, when you go bed at night you don’t have to worry about whether you’ll be warm and safe in your bed. It’s already provided for you. When you wake up in the morning, you don’t have to worry about whether there will be breakfast for you. It’s already provided. The clothes you wear, your food, your schooling, the home you live in and the security of a father that loves you. They are all yours. You have everything you need. “And,†I said, “this is the same relationship I have with my heavenly father.

Is this your true to life story? Father and son relationship? Nice presentation indeed and I hope that you really understand the specific elements of your story - the addressor and the addressee or the giver and the receiver. Do you get what I mean. Both the giver and the receiver are real and alive and speaking and interacting with each other, am I right?

“And,†I said, “this is the same relationship I have with my heavenly father. As I walk in the provision of his love every day I know that all of my needs have already been met. And yours are too.â€Â

I'm sure you are referring to the Almighty Lord God with your phrase "heavenly father", aren't you?

And this is what faith is. We don’t have to worry about anything because we know that while we walk in the provision of a loving heavenly Father, whatever the circumstance, He cares and will provide for His own. And so our lives become a walk of faith. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to worry. We just need to dwell in Him. And this is the righteousness that we have in Christ. To those who are His son’s and daughters, His provision has already been made.

By Gods grace, through Christ alone, we have been born into His family as sons and heirs of the living God. And by reason of our relationship to Him, the gift of faith enables us to dwell in His provision day by day. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to be anxious for anything because we know God will, rather, has already provided. And this is the inheritance we have through Christ. It is our confidence that even as the gospel was preached in advance to Abraham, the man of faith - to whom God credited righteousness because he believed God and trusted in His provision. This is the same righteousness imputed to us by faith that is inherent in any child who trusts in the provision of all things from his father.

So, faith is not an act of the will or even a state of mind. It is position of implicit trust. And when this is so, we walk as Jesus walked – doing the will of our Father in heaven.

For these things to match up with your presentation above, these must have been told to you by the Almighty Lord God himself, alive and real and in the same way and manner of talking that transpired between you and your son although in this case of the Almighty Lord God, for sure you did not see Him in His real image but heard Him speaking to you telling you all these things in His own way (probably in any manner that He did to the prophets or the apostles maybe, whichever) and that will be fine because you got the assurance from God himself and not from just what you read. But if it is not the case, then your presentation above is clear but what your saying here about faith now is vague in the sense that you are only making postulations of what you read in the bible.

Or plainly asking you, did you learn these things about faith in God directly from God or under God's tutelage or did you just learn these things from the bible in accordance to how do you understand what is written in the bible about this topic "FAITH IN GOD"? Which is which this time mutzrein?

 

[unred typo]

Mutzrein wrote: By Gods grace, through Christ alone, we have been born into His family as sons and heirs of the living God. And by reason of our relationship to Him, the gift of faith enables us to dwell in His provision day by day. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to be anxious for anything because we know God will, rather, has already provided. And this is the inheritance we have through Christ. It is our confidence that even as the gospel was preached in advance to Abraham, the man of faith - to whom God credited righteousness because he believed God and trusted in His provision. This is the same righteousness imputed to us by faith that is inherent in any child who trusts in the provision of all things from his father.

You have created a false dichotomy. First, the ‘gift of faith’ is not the saving faith of Abraham. The ‘gift of faith’ is one of the gifts of the Spirit to enrich the body of Christ. The ‘faith that saves’ that Abraham had is simply believing God and trusting in him enough to do what he commands.

Second, we are not born of God because he chooses us out of the world through some act of grace. We are born of God when the words that he spoke find root in us, and grow and produce fruit unto everlasting life. In other words, when we obey and grow because of the word, both written in scriptures and on our hearts and also confirmed by the Holy Spirit speaking to us.

Your statements about God’s provision are best understood by the Lord’s words in Matthew to seek first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you, and to take no thought about clothing and food because your father in heaven provides those for you when you walk according to what he has commanded you to do.

 

[scorpia]

Yes, you did. You said, “ The gospel is the testimony of God….. that whoever may read it may call on, come direct to …God….so that they may attain salvation ….from… God himself and not from the gospel.â€Â

Can you tell me what is "no sense" in this part? If you call on and come to God and have God himself as your Good Pastor and Teacher in your life, would you not be able to attain salvation and eternal life whose rewarder and origin is God himself?

If they read the gospel, and do what God himself has commanded us to do, they are following God directly because he will take those words and interpret them in our lives on a daily basis.

You intermix God and the gospel, is the gospel the Lord God? How can you obey God by just reading the bible? God is alive and real, isn't He? You must encounter God first for you to be able to hear God and obey whatever God may command you. Why say "If they read the gospel, and do what God himself has commanded us to do, they are following God directly", how can you be commanded to by God by just reading the gospel and not hearing God literally? Who among the bible characters were commanded to by God by just reading the scriptures, didn't it that God Himself did command each and everyone of the bible characters with whom God has spoken to even without any scriptures at all? We can speak to God and God can speak to us even in the absence of the bible, can't we and can't God?

Forgive as you have been forgiven, for instance, will become something like, “Why are you punishing your brother for calling you a dork by not loaning him your weed whacker? Is that being humble and turning the other cheek?â€Â

You see, the two work together to lead us in the narrow way. They are not separable.

Can't get what you mean here, sorry. Can you please clarify.

Scorpia wrote to me: You did make a good start but derailed yourself in this part which says "Faith is having a trust in the living words of Christ to love, forgive, be merciful, humble, and turn the other cheek when we are wronged, etc". It should have been better should you have said "Faith is having a trust in the living Christ who is our salvation and eternal life", plain and simple words but totally credited to God as our act of true faith in God.

How do you think we have faith in God without believing what he said to do and actually doing it?

How can this be so without hearing God first? How can we hear God without calling on and coming to the real and alive God himself? Hearing God will not be possible if we will not call on and come to God in the right way first but instead just read and read the bible itself.

Do you think God feels threatened by our deeds of doing what he said, that we might somehow claim a right to demand eternal life? LOL. I think anyone who stands before God will melt into a puddle in his pants if they should even entertain such ridiculous notions. Do you think he is so insecure that he would be afraid of losing a particle of his glory if we could do what he commands us to do? Do you ask your children to do the impossible so you can humiliate them in their attempts to please you? What are you thinking here?

Who is pleasing who by the way? All I'm saying is to always put God himself over and above all things, be it the scriptures or the bible or any written holy things of God. God is more that all these things.

 

[unred typo]

Scorpia wrote: You intermix God and the gospel, is the gospel the Lord God? How can you obey God by just reading the bible? God is alive and real, isn't He?

Ok, Scorpia, I think I understand our communication problem here. When you hear the term, ‘gospel,’ you think I mean the facts of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is how it is commonly used on these types of forums. I mean the entire gospel, including the words spoken by Christ, who has told us how to please God in our everyday life. One does not obey the ‘facts’ of Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection. To ‘obey the gospel’ is to repent of our acts of unkindness, greed, pride, ungodliness and faithlessness, and follow the words of Christ to love, forgive and as you say, put God first above all things in our lives. And yes, it must be a real, true working relationship between God and sinner. God is real and speaks today.

Scorpia wrote: We can speak to God and God can speak to us even in the absence of the bible, can't we and can't God?

Absolutely. But you have separated God from his written words as if God did not speak to us through his Son, and you seem to think these written commands recorded by his faithful followers are of no value to live by. Jesus said, “the words I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.†Read them. They explain how to please God and inherit eternal life.

Did your mother or father ever leave a note of instructions to do while they were out? Did you accept what they wrote as their word and obey it or did you say, “I’ll just wait until they get back to hear them say it in person� God is never out, but sometimes, we are away from him and our sins have separated us temporarily or our hearing has been dulled by distractions. Then it is good to have these notes to remind us of how we have strayed and bring us back to the Father again.

Scorpia wrote: How can this be so without hearing God first? How can we hear God without calling on and coming to the real and alive God himself? Hearing God will not be possible if we will not call on and come to God in the right way first but instead just read and read the bible itself.

Some hear God directly speaking to their hearts, some hear through the witness of others or the preaching by ministers of the genuine gospel and some through reading the written words spoken by the Son recorded in the Bible or other writings. The Spirit of God is always ready to interpret the message to us but we are not always ready to listen. Some ears would rather be tickled by cleverly devised fables and doctrines of devils than the true living God.

 

[mutzrein]

Scorpia

Of course what I write is true. My relationship with my Father in heaven is as real as my natural son’s relationship with me. Otherwise how do you think I would be able speak of Him as I do if I did not know Him.

And yes, because of this relationship, God does speak to me and has done so over the years in a variety of ways. I agree with you in this respect that my relationship with my Heavenly Father (who is God) is not by virtue of knowledge gained through any academic assent or by reading scripture. Of course, scripture confirms the nature and character of God to me much the same as a letter from myself to my son reveals more of myself to him. So . . . I don’t have the relationship BECAUSE of the letter. I have it because I am born of the Spirit of God. And this is how I can say I know Him and He knows me.

Many claim relationship WITH God because they do the ‘christian’ thing, therefore believing themselves to be righteous, whereas in fact they only know ABOUT Him and their righteousness is as filthy rags.

 

[scorpia]

Scorpia wrote: You intermix God and the gospel, is the gospel the Lord God? How can you obey God by just reading the bible? God is alive and real, isn't He?

[quote="unred typo":d2013]Ok, Scorpia, I think I understand our communication problem here. When you hear the term, ‘gospel,’ you think I mean the facts of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is how it is commonly used on these types of forums. I mean the entire gospel, including the words spoken by Christ, who has told us how to please God in our everyday life. One does not obey the ‘facts’ of Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection. To ‘obey the gospel’ is to repent of our acts of unkindness, greed, pride, ungodliness and faithlessness, and follow the words of Christ to love, forgive and as you say, put God first above all things in our lives. And yes, it must be a real, true working relationship between God and sinner. God is real and speaks today.

To tell you the truth, gospel means to me as the whole bible itself because the whole bible deals with the testimonies of God to mankind, right? But you failed to answer my question "is the gospel the Lord God himself" instead you just give explanation of what do you say "to obey the gospel" is and acknowledge God is real and speaks today, with whom? Why do you have to obey the gospel, did God instructed anyone to obey the gospel per se? You say God is real, is God alive? I'm sure you would agree that God is alive. If so, then why not call on and come to God and ask God himself to be your Teacher of the gospel instead of obeying the gospel without encountering God first? The gospel is not the Lord God.

Scorpia wrote: We can speak to God and God can speak to us even in the absence of the bible, can't we and can't God?

Absolutely. But you have separated God from his written words as if God did not speak to us through his Son,

We can read in the bible that "God spoke to us in this last days through His Son" and I'm sure that the word "us" there are not "unred typo", Scorpia, mutzrein, and so on but they were people then who were able to witness the Lord's manifestation in the flesh. And I'm sure that when we read in the bible any God's command, we are not the one in particular as the party/ies beings addressed to by the Lord God. But they are testimonies of God for all of us today so that we may know that there is really God in the first place and that if we call on and come to God, God may respond to us in the way that God did to the biblical characters in the old days. God did not give any intruction to anyone to make the bible of today as their manual in knowing God and God's command to mankind. God himself, alive and real is the One who will tell to us today what He really wanted for each and everyone of us, hence we must all call on and come to God in the right way.

and you seem to think these written commands recorded by his faithful followers are of no value to live by.

Thank you for using the words "you seem to think" for it implies only of your own understanding of what I am saying. Written commands of God recorded in the bible were not directly addressed to us in particular unless you encounter God himself and hear from the mouth of the Lord exactly the same command as recorded in the bible. See what the Lord is teaching His flock relative to this subject matter, the Lord said:

“I said unto a woman, what was the last sin that you committed today? The woman replied, I cannot remember, Then I said, you cannot remember or you do not know the meaning of sin. The woman replied, please forgive me because I do not know the meaning of sin.â€Â

â€ÂI then said unto a rich one doing a charitable work, what was the last sin that you committed today? The woman replied, I never did sin because I was busy doing a charitable work and good deeds. You are stupid with your sin. You will never be saved by your good deeds. Come ye all and I will teach you. Only your Lord can teach you what is the meaning of sin much more so that in the bible many are erratic and are not included that’s why if in it is written do not kill, the meaning of do not is not proper to do but if it will not be your Lord who will teach you, then how will you know that even these are wrong or right? UNLESS YOU THROW AWAY THE OLD, THOSE THAT YOU LEARN BY YOURSELF, THERE AND THEN THAT THE WISDOM COMING FROM THE LORD WILL COME TO YOU BUT IF YOU WILL NOT THROW AWAY THE OLD, YOU WILL REMAIN STUPID IN KNOWING THE MEANING OF SIN BECAUSE NOBODY CAN EVER TEACH YOU THE MEANING OF THOSE BUT YOUR LORD GOD. ANY GOOD DEED WILL SAVE YOU NOT UNLESS YOU TRUST AND ENTRUST YOUR LIFE TO YOUR ALMIGHTY LORD GOD.â€Â

Jesus said, “the words I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.†Read them. They explain how to please God and inherit eternal life.

That's why call on and come to the Lord God Jesus Christ himself for you to be also spoken to by the Lord Jesus of this spirit and life directly emanting from Him (Jesus) as the Almighty One.

Did your mother or father ever leave a note of instructions to do while they were out? Did you accept what they wrote as their word and obey it or did you say, “I’ll just wait until they get back to hear them say it in person�

You're banking on a wrong bank bro. With my father and mother is a long and continuous relationship, mutual, real, alive, etc. and we are all attuned with each other day and night. Of course I know that if they leave a note I may be able to recognize their penmanship or as cell phone are already in existence today, I can send them text messages for confirmation and it depends on what kind of command is there on the note, especially if it deals with money matter that I would be able to make more confirmation. I would put all my basis on my father and my mother and not just on the note.

With God and a bible reader, the above is not applicable because the bible reader is only conceptualizing what and who God is based on what he reads and understands from the bible and not based on how God is telling the reader about God himself, about God's real existence, etc., etc.,. In short, there is no yet mutual relationship being in existence between God and the bible reader. but just an understanding of the bible reader on what he read that the bible seems to be saying to him. It is just the bible and the reader without the direct participation of God himself, how would a thing of God be made known to a reader of the bible only?

God is never out, but sometimes, we are away from him and our sins have separated us temporarily or our hearing has been dulled by distractions. Then it is good to have these notes to remind us of how we have strayed and bring us back to the Father again.

Just remember that when you have God himself as your Good Pastor and Teacher, God himself will tell you to always get nigh to God and put in remembrance all the thing that He taught you and put them in your heart and same, not the bible or any other scriptures, will be your guide in coming back to God in case you backslided.

Scorpia wrote: How can this be so without hearing God first? How can we hear God without calling on and coming to the real and alive God himself? Hearing God will not be possible if we will not call on and come to God in the right way first but instead just read and read the bible itself.

Some hear God directly speaking to their hearts, some hear through the witness of others or the preaching by ministers of the genuine gospel and some through reading the written words spoken by the Son recorded in the Bible or other writings. The Spirit of God is always ready to interpret the message to us but we are not always ready to listen. Some ears would rather be tickled by cleverly devised fables and doctrines of devils than the true living God.

[/quote:d2013]
You can simply use Moses in Mt. Sinai and the burning bush, the Damascus experience of Paul, the Revelation to John, the life of Elijah, the life of the apostles Peter et. al, and so on, why hum another tune? How does the Holy Spirit interpret to you the messages that you are talking in this part?

 

[scorpia]

Scorpia

Of course what I write is true. My relationship with my Father in heaven is as real as my natural son’s relationship with me. .

I take your word bro. How did the Lord God introduce himself to you? How did you encounter the Lord God? How sure are you that the Lord God is really the one talking to you? What particular message did the Lord commanded you to spread to all nations?

 

[lily of God]

I had the same question when I read Mutzrein's post. Thank you scorpia.

peace :D

 

[lily of God]

I had the same question when I read Mutzrein's post. Thank you scorpia.

peace :D

 

[scorpia]

I had the same question when I read Mutzrein's post. Thank you scorpia.

peace :D

None at all lily and let us keep on trusting God only, alive and real.

 

[mutzrein]

Lily & Scorpia

Mmmm – well firstly there is a need to understand that I am just like any other man – born of the flesh. Of course as a man of the flesh I perceived things differently to the way I perceive them now, however I cannot ever recall not having believed (in a natural sense) in God. And since I grew (physically) with this knowledge of God (but not relationship with Him) I could only approach Him on an intellectual level.

But there came a point in my life, the circumstances of which I believe God brought about, through which that would change. As a result of these circumstances I cried out to God for mercy. I was absolutely void of any ability to do anything about my circumstances. I liken it to a physical birth. Sometime earlier the seed of the Spirit had been planted within me. The seed had been watered, had grown and at the right time I was brought into a new realm – the realm of the Spirit. In that instant of my (spiritual) birth I knew my Father and I knew it was He who had given me this life. And for the first time it was as though I beheld the beauty of His creation. Everything seemed new.

And as a babe is totally dependant on others for its wellbeing, so was I subject to what was offered to me by others upon whom I depended for spiritual growth. Within three months of being born of God, an incident occurred which decimated the ‘church’ I was attending. As a result I was caused to look to God for direction and so God created within me, what I call ‘a passion for truth.’

How sure am I that God is really the one speaking to me? As sure as I am that every breath I breath is because of His wondrous grace and I know His voice.

As far as a message that the Lord has commanded me to spread to all nations? I will say it like this. There are many running too and fro believing that they have a mandate from God to do and say certain things. And for many this mandate is not from God but from the pages of a book which man has interpreted in the flesh.

My mandate is not taken from the pages of a book. It comes from God. And it was as a young child of God that He first made known to me something of that mandate. God has placed within me His ‘Word’. Many seem to think that His word is merely what is written in the bible and so they commit themselves to studying it, in order that they may use the word to ‘preach’ to the lost. Now I in no way deny the validity of scripture and the messages conveyed therein by men of God. However, God’s Word is living. It is not just words written in ink on the pages of a book. His Word is alive and living within me . . . and those within whom the Word of God dwells. God’s Word is precious. It is truth and life and it can only be quickened by means of the Spirit of God to those to whom God has prepared to receive it.

And this is what was revealed to me those many years ago. Many quote the parable of the sower to support the ‘great commission’ of preaching the gospel. And we all know the outcome. Some seed fell on the path, some on rocky ground, some amongst thistles and some on good ground. But is was only the seed that fell on good ground that grew to maturity and produced a crop. And here is the message for me. I have been given seed to sow. The seed that I have been given is precious and because of this I must be careful as to where I sow it. So the message to me is loud and clear.
And as it says, “do not cast your pearls before swine.â€Â

So you see, I don’t strive or labour, going here and there, indiscriminately scattering seed as I go just because of the ‘great commission.’ My responsibility is to remain in Christ and he in me and so I fulfil the desire of my Father in heaven. When I am prompted by Him to sow a seed or to water it then I know my labour is not in vain because God will give the increase.

Does this answer your questions?

btw - Lily is my daughter's name. It is a beautiful thought 'lily of God'

 

[lily of God]

Mutzrein,

Thank you for your testimony.

You did not mention "the Bible". I am plain simple woman and I could not understand God and Jesus without reading the Bible.

The Bible helped me a great deal in every aspect of my life including discipleship. I have been encouraging people to read the Bible and obey everything what Jesus commands us.

I like my user name too :D

 

[unred typo]

Scorpia wrote:To tell you the truth, gospel means to me as the whole bible itself because the whole bible deals with the testimonies of God to mankind, right? But you failed to answer my question "is the gospel the Lord God himself" instead you just give explanation of what do you say "to obey the gospel" is and acknowledge God is real and speaks today, with whom? Why do you have to obey the gospel, did God instructed anyone to obey the gospel per se? You say God is real, is God alive? I'm sure you would agree that God is alive. If so, then why not call on and come to God and ask God himself to be your Teacher of the gospel instead of obeying the gospel without encountering God first? The gospel is not the Lord God.

I’m sorry I failed to answer your question. The gospel is the Word of God, and Jesus is the Word made flesh, and you are very correct in saying that the gospel in the Bible is not the Lord himself and we must be careful not to substitute the Bible reading and study for real and personal communion with the Lord himself.

Most of the Bible are the histories of how God has dealt with man, some parts are the prophesies dealing with things already passed and things to come, and some are instructions to obey. When Jesus left, he told his followers to go into all the world and preach the gospel, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe whatsoever things he had commanded them, and he would be with them always, even unto the end of the age. They did this. Before they died, they wrote these things as the Holy Spirit gave them remembrance. Why wouldn’t you want to read these precious messages, the Lord’s words of instruction and truth? These are the same words written in the Bible.

They are not only historical, but they bring life to those who obey them. Jesus said the words he spoke to them were instructions of “spirit and life†to those who would do and practice them. They are like a two edged sword to defend ourselves from Satan’s attacks. They are profitable for doctrine, correction and instruction in righteousness.

An encounter with the gospel message, as Mutz said, is not always fruitful. The soil of your heart has to be softened and broken to receive it, and watered by tears of repentance, and the water of the living word, if it is going to grow and produce the fruit of the Spirit.

In this you are absolutely right. The written gospels are not to take the place of God in our lives. I do go to the living God himself for teaching and to give me understanding of the word he has spoken and how it is to be understood in my life everyday. I hear his voice throughout the day, pointing out the answers to my questions, leading me in the right paths, convicting me of things that I should do or not do.

This is getting long and I’ll continue in another post. Thank you for your admonition.

.

 

[unred typo]

Scorpia wrote: In short, there is no yet mutual relationship being in existence between God and the bible reader. but just an understanding of the bible reader on what he read that the bible seems to be saying to him. It is just the bible and the reader without the direct participation of God himself, how would a thing of God be made known to a reader of the bible only?

Why do you say God is not participating in the reading of his words? The Holy Spirit takes those things written and speaks to us as we read to help us understand how it is applicable to our own lives. For instance, when we read “forgive as you have been forgivenâ€Â, he brings those to mind that we are holding a grudge against.

When I was young and first considering the existence of God, I prayed, if you’re real, prove it to me. The creation attested to the fact that something had created it. I spoke directly to the creator to ask him to reveal himself to me. There were times when I felt he was speaking to me and times when I would lose faith that he was even there at all. He used the verse in Hebrews 11:6. I don’t even know exactly where I heard or read it. That one verse came to my mind over and over, sometimes only a few words of it. He that comes to God must believe….that he IS…that he exists…and that he is a rewarder …that he will answer… those that diligently… not half heartedly…but diligently seek him. Through that verse alone, I came to know him and began a lifelong walk with him.

Scorpia wrote: Just remember that when you have God himself as your Good Pastor and Teacher, God himself will tell you to always get nigh to God and put in remembrance all the thing that He taught you and put them in your heart and same, not the bible or any other scriptures, will be your guide in coming back to God in case you backslided. [/S]

Why do you think it is an either/or situation? Why don’t you think it is both the Holy Spirit and the scripture working with the laws written on our hearts to keep us on the Lord’s path?

Scorpia wrote: You can simply use Moses in Mt. Sinai and the burning bush, the Damascus experience of Paul, the Revelation to John, the life of Elijah, the life of the apostles Peter et. al, and so on, why hum another tune? [/S]

It is thought that Moses wrote the first five books of scripture, from things he had been taught as a child about God. I believe it must have been him or Aaron or a scribe of the Israelites while they were slaves in Egypt who personally knew Moses and Aaron. There were scriptures that Noah brought in the ark with him, such as the books written by Enoch, and probably the beginning of Jasher. These histories were considered important records and were carefully kept.
These were written to show us how God relates to man and to seek him as our heavenly father, as you say. They also help us to discern the lying spirits that Jesus told us to beware of. Those who do not have scripture can find God through the display of all he has created and speak directly to him, but they may not understand the full love of God and how he came to sacrifice his son for us. You have made a very good point though.

Scorpia wrote: How does the Holy Spirit interpret to you the messages that you are talking in this part?[/S]

As I said, when I read to forgive one another, the Spirit brings people who I haven’t forgiven to my mind. When I do or say something mean, I hear, “did you forget, love one another as I have loved you?†Sometimes, when I’m all wrapped up in something greedy, I open up my Bible to
read, ‘Lay not up treasures upon earth where moth and rust corrupt and thieves break in and steal’ and I feel the Spirit nudge me. When a worry overcomes me, I am reminded of, “let not your heart be troubled.†I’m sure God does use the verses I have read to speak to me. I agree with your point though. If I were using them just to argue some doctrine I would be better off to put my Bible on a shelf and just listen to God speak to my heart. Sometimes I even take my own advice and do just that. :wink: