G
gingercat
Guest
vic said:
Yes, Scripture is open minded. It is for everyone. All you have to do is to be open minded to the TRUTH. And you will be in paradise under God's rule.
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What Happens at the Moment of Death?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Yes, Scripture is open minded. It is for everyone. All you have to do is to be open minded to the TRUTH. And you will be in paradise under God's rule.
J
John the Baptist
Guest
I try to defend the poster behind the post of gingercat, but it is hard?
Here is the sentence that cause's my problem..
quote: When we die, we go to sleep until resurrection time if we are Jesus' followers. Others who were wicked, unrigheouse or rejected Jesus stay dead. Some never had chance to hear good news they will be given chance in 1000 years of Jesus' raign.
Again, it had been asked, where is this scripture found?
Here is my scripture that this is not so..
---------The 1000 years will start & END for some!----------
It will start when Christ comes for the living righteous & the resurrected dead [Christians] who will all meet Him in the air, And Christ's God Glory + the angels Glory, will kill the rest of the worlds wicked, so that [all] wicked are now D-E-A-D. satan and the evil angels will now again be here on depopulated earth as it was before God created it! The now again 'desolate & void bottom/less pit earth', finds his angel followers and himself in a literal 'bound' chain set of circumstances! They are alone with the wicked all being dead. These who will have their resurrection at the ending of the 1000 years.
This 2nd resurrection is at the 1000 years ending! satan will have 1000 years to think over what his evil rebellion has caused! Yet, at the end of the 1000 years, and at this time, the wicked will all be resurrected, ALL OF ETERNITY will see that ALL have come to the point of full eternal uselessness (rebellion) for they come out of the grave the same rebellious way that they went into it! & God will at this time put them out of their misery! This is the penalty stage of their execution, they will suffer according to their deeds! See Eccl. 12:13-14.
These are to ALL be executed in this Second death slaughter, when the New Jerusalem descends at the end of these 1000 years. Their Judgement as to the 'length of suffering' will have been determined during the 1000 years of judgement by the heavenly accurate record books. See Luke 12:47-48. They will ALL be executed at this time. ALONG with Lucifer and his crew of angels, & all of his human evil Desiree's. (compare Gen. 4:7) The earth and the heavens will be cleansed by fire at this time, and then recreated before New Jerusalem sets down. See Eze. 28:18-19 & Obad. 16.
At the present time there are Non/Christians who are alive, OK?
And at the present time we have Christians who are alive also. Again, both are living on earth at this present time.
In the graves we have two class of dead people.
First, and at this present time we will agree to the thought that there are dead Christians in the grave.
And also at this present time there are dead non/Christians who are in the grave.
Lets look at the Masters Word in Jn. 5:28-29. Pay apt attention! (reread & study this verse)
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which [all that are in the graves] shall hear His voice. And they shall come forth; (notice No. 1) they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; (notice No. 2) [and] they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Also take note, that it does not say that they will all come out of their graves at the same time! Only that, they all will be resurrected, to come forth.
Two different time frames for these two different class of people. But remember that [these both] are now at the present time dead, & in the graves.
Now before we touch upon the same two class of the living at the present time, we are going back to Rev. 20 .We find that the 'd'evil is to be bound for 1000 years by a literal set of circumstances. It was exactly like the first history before man was created. But lets again prove that God is consistent!
Most know that 'man' added chapter titles, periods, numbers & chapters divisions to Gods Word. But it is the period & comma, that gives us some trouble in a few verses of Scripture. (they are in the wrong place) Lets test this in Rev. 20 verse 5? Immediately after the binding of satan in verse four, notice verse 5! "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (OK, 'i' placed a period here as they have done, But we will also place the number 6 here, to start the next verse. And this [new] thought. We will see if this makes more sense?) Verse 6...Blessed AND HOLY [is he that hath part in the first resurrection: (notice) on such the second death hath no power.."
Again the first resurrection brings forth the Blessed and Holy. And the others who are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years will die the second death. (see Rev. 20:14) And as we read in John 5:28-29 the Master promised both the saved & the lost would be resurrected. But not at the same time. But again, remember that this class of people were the ones who had died, both were to be raised from the dead. In other words we are not considering the 'living' yet.
Lets find out what happens to the living on earth when Christ comes again the second time. Remember that there are the Righteous & the wicked alive when He comes.
We will read about the righteous saved ones [first].
"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not [all] sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(notice 'all' will not sleep on...then it says, but [we] all shall be..) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last [trump:] for the trumpet shall sound, (secret? Hardly!)
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
And we read in Rev. 20:6.. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection." And in verse 5 again?? "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."
So lets will try another verse on these who come forth in the first resurrection and we will touch on the living righteous only. (not the living wicked)
Notice the wording, Christ does not want us to be mis/led! or 'ignorant' concerning this 'Word' of His.
"But I would not have you to be ignorant; brethren, concerning them which are asleep, (notice that he knows of these others!) even as others which [have no hope.]...For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, (now we see the living righteous come to view) that we which [are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord] shall not prevent them which are asleep. (secret? silent? hardly) For the Lord [himself] shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, [and] with the trump of God: (do you remember when Moses went upon Mt. Sinai? How God spoke, & the whole mountain shook! but notice the next Words) AND THE DEAD IN [CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST. (did you catch the Words, Word? First, or the first resurrection!) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.." 1 Thess. 5:13-16
Please note again: We have not touched a verse strictly about what happened to the living wicked! The wicked who died are still dead & will not come forth until after the 1000 years. So, Christ called forth 'first' those of the saved in the first resurrection.
Who is left here for us to consider? When the Master came there were two class of people here on earth. Both the Righteous & the wicked living, what happened to the living wicked?? Lets go to Revelation 6:14-17 to check?
We find that when Christ comes to earth the second time, that the earth will
be de/populated, except for satan & his evil angels.
But we did not use these verses. And it can leave NO DOUBT as to the time being that of the Masters SECOND COMING! Rev. 6:14-17 says:
"And the heaven departed as a scowl when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (remember who only are here! the wicked dead are still in their grave & all the righteous are to be brought forth together at this same time, at Christ's second coming. Now notice!)
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondsman, and every free man,
[hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME;] AND WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO STAND?"
You will want these last verses to seal this truth in your mind, as for the time frame.
It is clearly seen as that of our Lords Second coming, and the total temporary 1000 year death of all the wicked! The verses are found in 2 Thess. 2:1-9. (you read it all, i will use just its context)
The righteous are being raptured away' (if i can use this term?)
And the wicked dead will not come forth until the end of the 1000 years. And these living wicked are WANTING TO DIE. And they will do so. Now, the earth is as it was before creation. Dark & Void, the home for the evil angels & their master, satan. Chained by a literal set of circumstances until the 1000 years are finished. Then, they will all take part in the second resurrection to be eternally slain! This is called the SECOND DEATH! try Revelation 20:14.
You will want these verses in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 to see that it is at the Masters second coming that the rest of the wicked are slain & that all the wicked are now dead, and remain so until the end of the 1000 years. Then they will be resurrected for a very short time.
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by [our gathering together unto Him]...And then shall the [wicked be revealed, (pay apt attention) whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING."
---John
Here is the sentence that cause's my problem..
quote: When we die, we go to sleep until resurrection time if we are Jesus' followers. Others who were wicked, unrigheouse or rejected Jesus stay dead. Some never had chance to hear good news they will be given chance in 1000 years of Jesus' raign.
Again, it had been asked, where is this scripture found?
Here is my scripture that this is not so..
---------The 1000 years will start & END for some!----------
It will start when Christ comes for the living righteous & the resurrected dead [Christians] who will all meet Him in the air, And Christ's God Glory + the angels Glory, will kill the rest of the worlds wicked, so that [all] wicked are now D-E-A-D. satan and the evil angels will now again be here on depopulated earth as it was before God created it! The now again 'desolate & void bottom/less pit earth', finds his angel followers and himself in a literal 'bound' chain set of circumstances! They are alone with the wicked all being dead. These who will have their resurrection at the ending of the 1000 years.
This 2nd resurrection is at the 1000 years ending! satan will have 1000 years to think over what his evil rebellion has caused! Yet, at the end of the 1000 years, and at this time, the wicked will all be resurrected, ALL OF ETERNITY will see that ALL have come to the point of full eternal uselessness (rebellion) for they come out of the grave the same rebellious way that they went into it! & God will at this time put them out of their misery! This is the penalty stage of their execution, they will suffer according to their deeds! See Eccl. 12:13-14.
These are to ALL be executed in this Second death slaughter, when the New Jerusalem descends at the end of these 1000 years. Their Judgement as to the 'length of suffering' will have been determined during the 1000 years of judgement by the heavenly accurate record books. See Luke 12:47-48. They will ALL be executed at this time. ALONG with Lucifer and his crew of angels, & all of his human evil Desiree's. (compare Gen. 4:7) The earth and the heavens will be cleansed by fire at this time, and then recreated before New Jerusalem sets down. See Eze. 28:18-19 & Obad. 16.
At the present time there are Non/Christians who are alive, OK?
And at the present time we have Christians who are alive also. Again, both are living on earth at this present time.
In the graves we have two class of dead people.
First, and at this present time we will agree to the thought that there are dead Christians in the grave.
And also at this present time there are dead non/Christians who are in the grave.
Lets look at the Masters Word in Jn. 5:28-29. Pay apt attention! (reread & study this verse)
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which [all that are in the graves] shall hear His voice. And they shall come forth; (notice No. 1) they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; (notice No. 2) [and] they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Also take note, that it does not say that they will all come out of their graves at the same time! Only that, they all will be resurrected, to come forth.
Two different time frames for these two different class of people. But remember that [these both] are now at the present time dead, & in the graves.
Now before we touch upon the same two class of the living at the present time, we are going back to Rev. 20 .We find that the 'd'evil is to be bound for 1000 years by a literal set of circumstances. It was exactly like the first history before man was created. But lets again prove that God is consistent!
Most know that 'man' added chapter titles, periods, numbers & chapters divisions to Gods Word. But it is the period & comma, that gives us some trouble in a few verses of Scripture. (they are in the wrong place) Lets test this in Rev. 20 verse 5? Immediately after the binding of satan in verse four, notice verse 5! "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (OK, 'i' placed a period here as they have done, But we will also place the number 6 here, to start the next verse. And this [new] thought. We will see if this makes more sense?) Verse 6...Blessed AND HOLY [is he that hath part in the first resurrection: (notice) on such the second death hath no power.."
Again the first resurrection brings forth the Blessed and Holy. And the others who are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years will die the second death. (see Rev. 20:14) And as we read in John 5:28-29 the Master promised both the saved & the lost would be resurrected. But not at the same time. But again, remember that this class of people were the ones who had died, both were to be raised from the dead. In other words we are not considering the 'living' yet.
Lets find out what happens to the living on earth when Christ comes again the second time. Remember that there are the Righteous & the wicked alive when He comes.
We will read about the righteous saved ones [first].
"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not [all] sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(notice 'all' will not sleep on...then it says, but [we] all shall be..) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last [trump:] for the trumpet shall sound, (secret? Hardly!)
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
And we read in Rev. 20:6.. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection." And in verse 5 again?? "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."
So lets will try another verse on these who come forth in the first resurrection and we will touch on the living righteous only. (not the living wicked)
Notice the wording, Christ does not want us to be mis/led! or 'ignorant' concerning this 'Word' of His.
"But I would not have you to be ignorant; brethren, concerning them which are asleep, (notice that he knows of these others!) even as others which [have no hope.]...For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, (now we see the living righteous come to view) that we which [are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord] shall not prevent them which are asleep. (secret? silent? hardly) For the Lord [himself] shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, [and] with the trump of God: (do you remember when Moses went upon Mt. Sinai? How God spoke, & the whole mountain shook! but notice the next Words) AND THE DEAD IN [CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST. (did you catch the Words, Word? First, or the first resurrection!) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.." 1 Thess. 5:13-16
Please note again: We have not touched a verse strictly about what happened to the living wicked! The wicked who died are still dead & will not come forth until after the 1000 years. So, Christ called forth 'first' those of the saved in the first resurrection.
Who is left here for us to consider? When the Master came there were two class of people here on earth. Both the Righteous & the wicked living, what happened to the living wicked?? Lets go to Revelation 6:14-17 to check?
We find that when Christ comes to earth the second time, that the earth will
be de/populated, except for satan & his evil angels.
But we did not use these verses. And it can leave NO DOUBT as to the time being that of the Masters SECOND COMING! Rev. 6:14-17 says:
"And the heaven departed as a scowl when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (remember who only are here! the wicked dead are still in their grave & all the righteous are to be brought forth together at this same time, at Christ's second coming. Now notice!)
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondsman, and every free man,
[hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME;] AND WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO STAND?"
You will want these last verses to seal this truth in your mind, as for the time frame.
It is clearly seen as that of our Lords Second coming, and the total temporary 1000 year death of all the wicked! The verses are found in 2 Thess. 2:1-9. (you read it all, i will use just its context)
The righteous are being raptured away' (if i can use this term?)
And the wicked dead will not come forth until the end of the 1000 years. And these living wicked are WANTING TO DIE. And they will do so. Now, the earth is as it was before creation. Dark & Void, the home for the evil angels & their master, satan. Chained by a literal set of circumstances until the 1000 years are finished. Then, they will all take part in the second resurrection to be eternally slain! This is called the SECOND DEATH! try Revelation 20:14.
You will want these verses in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 to see that it is at the Masters second coming that the rest of the wicked are slain & that all the wicked are now dead, and remain so until the end of the 1000 years. Then they will be resurrected for a very short time.
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by [our gathering together unto Him]...And then shall the [wicked be revealed, (pay apt attention) whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING."
---John
G
gingercat
Guest
vic said:
I was the same level as you were when I was a new believer. Then I studied and got out of false religion. You should step back and open to the TRUTH, Vic.
I was never happy with the material that popular churches gave me. I wanted the whole truth.
I had been listening to the same kind of reasoning when I was attending the churches. So most of the areguments I hear in the forums are not anything new.
I would not go backward. :D
T
thessalonian
Guest
Oddly enough everyone I have met that has the same idea as you, i.e. Churches are bad, also has very widely varying beliefs, strikingly different from yours. So evidently it is not the panacea of truth that you think you have found. More likely it is just a manifestation of human pride where the individual trusts his own understanding (Prov 3:5) apart from the Church which is the pillar and support of the truth (1 Tim 3:15). A sheep separated from the flock is prey for wolves to easily devour.
What makes your version of unchurched truth the right one?
What makes your version of unchurched truth the right one?
G
gingercat
Guest
destiny said:
I am still thinking about it. I hope you do the same. :D
vic said:
Vic I suspect that this is in part at least an adoption of JW belief. But I have had a quick squiz on a site frequented by JW's and notice even their contributors disagree on some interpretations.
I wonder what they think of the scripture that says, "It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement."
J
John the Baptist
Guest
Lewis W said:
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
What happens at the moment of Death?
A high dose of DMT is released by pineal gland and you soar off into the neverland......
Read and learn....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine
A high dose of DMT is released by pineal gland and you soar off into the neverland......
Read and learn....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine
Vic C.
Member
Very quickly so we may stay on topic.
1-My answer to gingercat: Actually, I was once where you are.
2- Mut, good point. It occurs to me that in order to experience Judgement and a possible second death, the dead would first have to be brought back from the first death.
Johmn posted some verses, the same ones I would have posted probably. I'm going to check them out now.
to topic
S
Solo
Guest
She would make a good Jehovah Witness.destiny said:
G
gingercat
Guest
vic said:Very quickly so we may stay on topic.
1-My answer to gingercat: Actually, I was once where you are.
2- Mut, good point. It occurs to me that in order to experience Judgement and a possible second death, the dead would first have to be brought back from the first death.
Johmn posted some verses, the same ones I would have posted probably. I'm going to check them out now.
Were you open enough to listen to JW?
I doubt it. You are too closed mind to listen to JW. It takes great courage to go against the flow.
jgredline
Member
Well I ran across this thread a few days ago and has taken me a few days to put my thoughts together and flipping through my concordance, bible dictionary and lots of verse reading. I came to the conclusion that we need to understand certain words to understand where we go. I hope this makes sense and if it helps but one person that’s really cool. Lets start with the word
Death
The word death in all of its biblical applications signifies the loss of vitality. Physical death occurs when the spirit separates from the body. Spiritual death refers to the condition of being spiritually or personally alienated from the living true God Jesus, the source of all life. Finally, the second death is the condition (outwardly as well as inwardly) of existence separated from the experience of God’s life, the natural condition for which man was created. As such it is the condition of final judgment for those who have no relationship with Jesus who is God. Since the human being is holistic, the death of the body is intrinsically related to the more personally significant inner spiritual death. Thus many statements concerning death (and life) are comprehensive, including both physical and spiritual death (e.g., Ro 6:23; Ac 3:17) physical death separation of body and spirit: Ge 3:19; 35:18; Job 34:14–15; Ec 12:7; Lu 23:46; Jn 19:30; Ac 7:59 result of sin: Ge 2:17; 3:19; Ro 5:12–14; 6:23; (cf. Jn 8:44; Heb 2:14) universal: Job 14:1; Ps 89:48; Ec 5:15; 8:8; 9:5; Ro 5:12–14; 1 Co 15:22; Heb 9:27
exceptions Enoch: Ge 5:24; Heb 11:5 Elijah: 2 Ki 2:11; (cf. 1 Co 15:51; 1 Th 4:17): conquered by Christ: Mt 9:23–25; 11:5; Ac 3:15; Ro 6:8–9; 14:9; 1 Co 15:26, 54–57; 2 Ti 1:10; Heb 2:14–15; Re 1:18; 21:4: of saints: Nu 23:10; Ps 23:4; 48:14; 116:15; Pr 14:32; Is 26:19; 57:1; Da 12:2; Lu 16:25; Jn 11:11; Ro 7:24; 8:10, 38; 1 Co 3:21–22; 15:20, 56; 2 Co 5:8; Php 1:21; 1 Th 4:14; 2 Ti 4:8; Heb 11:13; Re 2:10: of the wicked: Job 27:19–20; Ps 34:16; 49:14; 73:19; Pr 11:7; 14:32; Eze 3:19; 18:23; Lu 12:20; 16:22; Jn 8:21; Ac 1:25 a temporal punishment
spiritual death general: Mt 4:16; 8:22; Jn 6:53; Ro 5:12–17; Eph 2:1, 5; 4:18; 5:14; Col 2:13; 1 Ti 5:6; 1 Jo 3:14; Re 3:1 alienation from God: Ro 8:6–7; Eph 4:18; Ga 4:8 result of sin: Ro 5:15–17; 6:23; 8:6–7; Ga 3:10; 6:7–8; Eph 2:1, 5; Col 2:13; Jam 1:15 salvation from: Jn 3:16; 5:24; 8:51; Ro 6:3–11, 23; 8:2; Eph 2:5; 2 Co 7:10; Jam 5:20; Re 2:11; 20:6
second death general: Pr 14:12; Da 12:2; Mt 10:28; Mk 9:43; Jn 5:19; Ro 2:8; 6:23; Jud 12; Re 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8 not cessation of existence: Mt 25:46; Mk 9:43–48; Re 14:10; 20:10
Now lets take a look at the word HELL
The term hell is commonly associated with the place of punishment for the wicked dead. It is variously used in different English versions of the Bible to translate Sheol in the OT and Gehenna and Tartarus in the NT. The NASB uses “hell†only in the NT, for Gehenna and Tartarus. Since the wicked experience punishment (i.e., chastisement) already before the resurrection and final judgment (cf. Lu 16:23–28), “hell†can be used to describe this intermediate state. The primary significance of the term, however, is the place of eternal punishment. A variety of expressions are used, all designed to depict the agony and destruction of existence separated and cut off from God/Jesus, the source of life..
The abode of the wicked : Mt 13:41–42; 25:41–46; Lu 16:23; Re 19:20; 20:14–15 warning against: Mt 5:22, 29–30; 10:28; 18:8–9; Mk 9:43–48; Lu 12:5 descriptions of (punishment) fire: Mt 13:42, 50; 25:41; Mk 9:43; Lu 16:24; Jud 7; Re 9:2; 19:20; 20:10, 14–15; 21:8 Gehenna, a valley south of Jerusalem with loathesome connotations from the time when humans were sacrificed there: 2 Ki 23:10; Je 7:31 Corpses and garbage were permanently burning in Gehenna making it appropriate as a metaphor of eternal punishment: Mt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mk 9:43–47; Lu 12:5; Jam 3:6 darkness: Mt 8:12; 22:13; 25:30; 2 Pe 2:4, 17; Jud 6, 13; Re 16:10; 21:8 the abyss: Lu 8:31; Re 9:1, 11; 20:1, 3 Tartarus, the name in Greco-Latin mythology for the underworld abyss where wicked gods and humans were imprisoned in punishment: 2 Pe 2:4 place of worms: Is 14:11; 66:24; Mk 9:48
Now lets take a look at the Hebrew word SHEOL
The term Sheol is used in the OT to denote the underworld, i.e., the abode of the dead. In some instances, the word it may simply refer to death or the grave (cf. Ge 37:35; 42:38; 44:29, 31; 1 Ki 2:6, 9). Conceived of as situated in the depths of the earth, Sheol is a place of physical death in contrast to the vitality of life on earth with all of its brightness and activity (cf. Job 10:21–22). Both the righteous and the wicked went to Sheol, although there is some indication of a distinction in their condition there (cf. De 32:22; Is 57:1–2; Lu 16:23). Moreover, the righteous looked for ultimate deliverance from Sheol (e.g., Ps 49:15; 73:24). .READ LUKE 16:23 FOR MORE INFO
location of: Ps 63:9; 86:13; Job 11:8; Ps 139:8; Is 14:9; Am 9:2 place of all dead: Ge 25:8; 35:29; 49:33; 2 Sa 12:23; 1 Ki 2:10; Job 21:13; 24:19; Ps 9:17; 31:17; 49:14; 89:48 righteous redeemed from: Ps 16:10; 49:15; 86:13; Pr 15:24; Hos 13:14
characteristics of darkness: Job 10:21–22; 38:17 limited activity (compared to earthly life): Ec 9:10; Is 38:10–20 no praise of God from there: Ps 6:5; 88:10–12; 115:17; Is 38:18 weakness: Is 14:9–10 silence: Ps 94:17; 115:17 a place of rest for the righteous: Job 14:13; Is 57:1–2 a place of God’s wrath on the wicked: De 32:22
God sovereign over: 1 Sa 2:6; De 32:22; Job 14:13; 26:6; Ps 139:8; Pr 15:11
metaphorical uses greed: Pr 27:20; 30:16; Hab 2:5 murder: Pr 1:12 jealousy: Son 8:6 troubles of life: Ps 88:3 grave situations: 2 Sa 22:6; Ps 18:5; 30:3; Jon 2:2 death: Is 28:15, 18
Now lets take a look at the Greek word HADES
Hades is the NT equivalent to the OT Sheol . In the NT Hades is used much more limitedly than the term Sheol in the OT. Sheol is used for the dwelling place of all dead (e.g., Ac 2:27, 31; (cf. Re 6:8; 20:13), and all the dead can be viewed as in the underworld (Lu 16:23, 26). But only the wicked dead are said to be in Hades (cf. Lu 16:23), and it is now more explicitly a place of punishment. Because of the resurrection of Christ, the righteous are in “Paradise†(Lu 23:43), with Christ (Php 1:23; 2 Co 5:8), and in the “heavenly Jerusalem†(Heb 12:23).
location of: Mt 11:23; 12:40; Lu 10:15
characteristics of temporary place of the dead: Lu 16:23, 26; Ac 2:27, 31; Re 6:8; 20:13–14 place of punishment for the wicked: Lu 16:23; (cf. 1 Pe 3:19); Re 20:2, 7 thrown into the lake of fire: Re 20:14
Christ sovereign over: Mt 16:18; Ac 2:24, 27, 31; Re 1:18
metaphorical use kingdom of death: Mt 16:18
Now lets take a look at the greek definition of paradise
3857 παράδεισος [paradeisos /paradisos/] n m. Of Oriental origin cf 6508; TDNT 5:765; TDNTA 777; GK 4137; Three occurrences; AV translates as “paradise†three times. 1 among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters. 2 a garden, pleasure ground. 2A grove, park. 3 the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise. 4 the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world.
John was asking about this verse and in the same contex as above its important to take the writers complete thought (I believe it was written by Paul) so we do not take it out of contex as other liberals like to do.
Hebrews 9:26-28
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was soffered once to bear the sins tof many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Death is in the natural sequence of events for man. For the unsaved man, after death there is nothing but judgment. If you have not received Jesus Christ as God and saviour then your name is not in lambs book of life and the next stop is Hell. If the death of Christ does not save you, there is nothing ahead of you but judgment. This verse is speaking of a physical death.
Lets take a look at one more part of scripture
Luke 16:19-23
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to oAbraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
This is the story of a rich man who lived and died without God. It moves into a realm that we know nothing about. In this parable the Lord God Jesus Christ passes from this world to the next without making any break at all. Although we cannot penetrate the curtain between this life and the next life, our Lord speaks of the next world as naturally as He speaks of this life.
When man is left to his own imagination, he seeks out many inventions and out of his wildest dreams he makes unlimited speculations. When man uses his imagination, he gets into trouble. In this parable we learn what the Word of God says. There were only three men who ever spoke with authority concerning the other side of death: the Lord Jesus; John, who was given the Revelation; and Paul, who was “… caught up to the third heaven†(2 Cor. 12:2).
Well I really hope this helps.
This study has been a blessing to me.
If Jesus Christ who is God is not your saviour then you will be facing the Great white seat of Judgement.
God bless you, save you and keep you.
All praise and Glory be to Jesus Christ..
Lord Jesus I thank you for this study as trully I have been blessed by knowing that my name is in your book of life..
Thank you as I pray In Jesus Holy name THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES.
Death
The word death in all of its biblical applications signifies the loss of vitality. Physical death occurs when the spirit separates from the body. Spiritual death refers to the condition of being spiritually or personally alienated from the living true God Jesus, the source of all life. Finally, the second death is the condition (outwardly as well as inwardly) of existence separated from the experience of God’s life, the natural condition for which man was created. As such it is the condition of final judgment for those who have no relationship with Jesus who is God. Since the human being is holistic, the death of the body is intrinsically related to the more personally significant inner spiritual death. Thus many statements concerning death (and life) are comprehensive, including both physical and spiritual death (e.g., Ro 6:23; Ac 3:17) physical death separation of body and spirit: Ge 3:19; 35:18; Job 34:14–15; Ec 12:7; Lu 23:46; Jn 19:30; Ac 7:59 result of sin: Ge 2:17; 3:19; Ro 5:12–14; 6:23; (cf. Jn 8:44; Heb 2:14) universal: Job 14:1; Ps 89:48; Ec 5:15; 8:8; 9:5; Ro 5:12–14; 1 Co 15:22; Heb 9:27
exceptions Enoch: Ge 5:24; Heb 11:5 Elijah: 2 Ki 2:11; (cf. 1 Co 15:51; 1 Th 4:17): conquered by Christ: Mt 9:23–25; 11:5; Ac 3:15; Ro 6:8–9; 14:9; 1 Co 15:26, 54–57; 2 Ti 1:10; Heb 2:14–15; Re 1:18; 21:4: of saints: Nu 23:10; Ps 23:4; 48:14; 116:15; Pr 14:32; Is 26:19; 57:1; Da 12:2; Lu 16:25; Jn 11:11; Ro 7:24; 8:10, 38; 1 Co 3:21–22; 15:20, 56; 2 Co 5:8; Php 1:21; 1 Th 4:14; 2 Ti 4:8; Heb 11:13; Re 2:10: of the wicked: Job 27:19–20; Ps 34:16; 49:14; 73:19; Pr 11:7; 14:32; Eze 3:19; 18:23; Lu 12:20; 16:22; Jn 8:21; Ac 1:25 a temporal punishment
spiritual death general: Mt 4:16; 8:22; Jn 6:53; Ro 5:12–17; Eph 2:1, 5; 4:18; 5:14; Col 2:13; 1 Ti 5:6; 1 Jo 3:14; Re 3:1 alienation from God: Ro 8:6–7; Eph 4:18; Ga 4:8 result of sin: Ro 5:15–17; 6:23; 8:6–7; Ga 3:10; 6:7–8; Eph 2:1, 5; Col 2:13; Jam 1:15 salvation from: Jn 3:16; 5:24; 8:51; Ro 6:3–11, 23; 8:2; Eph 2:5; 2 Co 7:10; Jam 5:20; Re 2:11; 20:6
second death general: Pr 14:12; Da 12:2; Mt 10:28; Mk 9:43; Jn 5:19; Ro 2:8; 6:23; Jud 12; Re 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8 not cessation of existence: Mt 25:46; Mk 9:43–48; Re 14:10; 20:10
Now lets take a look at the word HELL
The term hell is commonly associated with the place of punishment for the wicked dead. It is variously used in different English versions of the Bible to translate Sheol in the OT and Gehenna and Tartarus in the NT. The NASB uses “hell†only in the NT, for Gehenna and Tartarus. Since the wicked experience punishment (i.e., chastisement) already before the resurrection and final judgment (cf. Lu 16:23–28), “hell†can be used to describe this intermediate state. The primary significance of the term, however, is the place of eternal punishment. A variety of expressions are used, all designed to depict the agony and destruction of existence separated and cut off from God/Jesus, the source of life..
The abode of the wicked : Mt 13:41–42; 25:41–46; Lu 16:23; Re 19:20; 20:14–15 warning against: Mt 5:22, 29–30; 10:28; 18:8–9; Mk 9:43–48; Lu 12:5 descriptions of (punishment) fire: Mt 13:42, 50; 25:41; Mk 9:43; Lu 16:24; Jud 7; Re 9:2; 19:20; 20:10, 14–15; 21:8 Gehenna, a valley south of Jerusalem with loathesome connotations from the time when humans were sacrificed there: 2 Ki 23:10; Je 7:31 Corpses and garbage were permanently burning in Gehenna making it appropriate as a metaphor of eternal punishment: Mt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mk 9:43–47; Lu 12:5; Jam 3:6 darkness: Mt 8:12; 22:13; 25:30; 2 Pe 2:4, 17; Jud 6, 13; Re 16:10; 21:8 the abyss: Lu 8:31; Re 9:1, 11; 20:1, 3 Tartarus, the name in Greco-Latin mythology for the underworld abyss where wicked gods and humans were imprisoned in punishment: 2 Pe 2:4 place of worms: Is 14:11; 66:24; Mk 9:48
Now lets take a look at the Hebrew word SHEOL
The term Sheol is used in the OT to denote the underworld, i.e., the abode of the dead. In some instances, the word it may simply refer to death or the grave (cf. Ge 37:35; 42:38; 44:29, 31; 1 Ki 2:6, 9). Conceived of as situated in the depths of the earth, Sheol is a place of physical death in contrast to the vitality of life on earth with all of its brightness and activity (cf. Job 10:21–22). Both the righteous and the wicked went to Sheol, although there is some indication of a distinction in their condition there (cf. De 32:22; Is 57:1–2; Lu 16:23). Moreover, the righteous looked for ultimate deliverance from Sheol (e.g., Ps 49:15; 73:24). .READ LUKE 16:23 FOR MORE INFO
location of: Ps 63:9; 86:13; Job 11:8; Ps 139:8; Is 14:9; Am 9:2 place of all dead: Ge 25:8; 35:29; 49:33; 2 Sa 12:23; 1 Ki 2:10; Job 21:13; 24:19; Ps 9:17; 31:17; 49:14; 89:48 righteous redeemed from: Ps 16:10; 49:15; 86:13; Pr 15:24; Hos 13:14
characteristics of darkness: Job 10:21–22; 38:17 limited activity (compared to earthly life): Ec 9:10; Is 38:10–20 no praise of God from there: Ps 6:5; 88:10–12; 115:17; Is 38:18 weakness: Is 14:9–10 silence: Ps 94:17; 115:17 a place of rest for the righteous: Job 14:13; Is 57:1–2 a place of God’s wrath on the wicked: De 32:22
God sovereign over: 1 Sa 2:6; De 32:22; Job 14:13; 26:6; Ps 139:8; Pr 15:11
metaphorical uses greed: Pr 27:20; 30:16; Hab 2:5 murder: Pr 1:12 jealousy: Son 8:6 troubles of life: Ps 88:3 grave situations: 2 Sa 22:6; Ps 18:5; 30:3; Jon 2:2 death: Is 28:15, 18
Now lets take a look at the Greek word HADES
Hades is the NT equivalent to the OT Sheol . In the NT Hades is used much more limitedly than the term Sheol in the OT. Sheol is used for the dwelling place of all dead (e.g., Ac 2:27, 31; (cf. Re 6:8; 20:13), and all the dead can be viewed as in the underworld (Lu 16:23, 26). But only the wicked dead are said to be in Hades (cf. Lu 16:23), and it is now more explicitly a place of punishment. Because of the resurrection of Christ, the righteous are in “Paradise†(Lu 23:43), with Christ (Php 1:23; 2 Co 5:8), and in the “heavenly Jerusalem†(Heb 12:23).
location of: Mt 11:23; 12:40; Lu 10:15
characteristics of temporary place of the dead: Lu 16:23, 26; Ac 2:27, 31; Re 6:8; 20:13–14 place of punishment for the wicked: Lu 16:23; (cf. 1 Pe 3:19); Re 20:2, 7 thrown into the lake of fire: Re 20:14
Christ sovereign over: Mt 16:18; Ac 2:24, 27, 31; Re 1:18
metaphorical use kingdom of death: Mt 16:18
Now lets take a look at the greek definition of paradise
3857 παράδεισος [paradeisos /paradisos/] n m. Of Oriental origin cf 6508; TDNT 5:765; TDNTA 777; GK 4137; Three occurrences; AV translates as “paradise†three times. 1 among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters. 2 a garden, pleasure ground. 2A grove, park. 3 the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise. 4 the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world.
John was asking about this verse and in the same contex as above its important to take the writers complete thought (I believe it was written by Paul) so we do not take it out of contex as other liberals like to do.
Hebrews 9:26-28
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was soffered once to bear the sins tof many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Death is in the natural sequence of events for man. For the unsaved man, after death there is nothing but judgment. If you have not received Jesus Christ as God and saviour then your name is not in lambs book of life and the next stop is Hell. If the death of Christ does not save you, there is nothing ahead of you but judgment. This verse is speaking of a physical death.
Lets take a look at one more part of scripture
Luke 16:19-23
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to oAbraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
This is the story of a rich man who lived and died without God. It moves into a realm that we know nothing about. In this parable the Lord God Jesus Christ passes from this world to the next without making any break at all. Although we cannot penetrate the curtain between this life and the next life, our Lord speaks of the next world as naturally as He speaks of this life.
When man is left to his own imagination, he seeks out many inventions and out of his wildest dreams he makes unlimited speculations. When man uses his imagination, he gets into trouble. In this parable we learn what the Word of God says. There were only three men who ever spoke with authority concerning the other side of death: the Lord Jesus; John, who was given the Revelation; and Paul, who was “… caught up to the third heaven†(2 Cor. 12:2).
Well I really hope this helps.
This study has been a blessing to me.
If Jesus Christ who is God is not your saviour then you will be facing the Great white seat of Judgement.
God bless you, save you and keep you.
All praise and Glory be to Jesus Christ..
Lord Jesus I thank you for this study as trully I have been blessed by knowing that my name is in your book of life..
Thank you as I pray In Jesus Holy name THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES.
J
John the Baptist
Guest
When man is left to his own imagination, he seeks out many inventions and out of his wildest dreams he makes unlimited speculations. When man uses his imagination, he gets into trouble. In this parable we learn what the Word of God says. There were only three men who ever spoke with authority concerning the other side of death: the Lord Jesus; John, who was given the Revelation; and Paul, who was “… caught up to the third heaven†(2 Cor. 12:2).
John here:
I surely agree with some of the above [post] here, huh? Like the 1/2 of Eternal Gospel Truth from Matthew 4:6 that was quoted to Christ by someone who was a liar from the beginning and whom will DIE!! Interesting how some folks read that only God has Immortality ( 1 Timothy 6:14-16) & then turn around and give the evil 'spirit' satan Immortality???
Yet, the Word of Christ God, from start to finish, has given much 'INSPIRATION' on the subject of death, not just by three penman!! Unless one does not think that much of the Holy Spirits Inspiration?? Matthew 10:28 is in Christ's own Words states:
"And fear not them which kill the body: but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to [destroy both the body and the soul in hell]."
And the Obadiah 1:16 verse tell ETERNITY what that means! And the Holy Spirit's INSPIRATION makes it VERY CLEAR again in [both] Ezekiel 18:4 [&] Ezekiel 18:20 the SOUL that sinneth it [SHALL DIE]."
Yet, most we see will not 'LIVE BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD' from start to finish, they believe the devils first lie that ye shall not surely die, instead. Whatever? :roll:
John here:
I surely agree with some of the above [post] here, huh? Like the 1/2 of Eternal Gospel Truth from Matthew 4:6 that was quoted to Christ by someone who was a liar from the beginning and whom will DIE!! Interesting how some folks read that only God has Immortality ( 1 Timothy 6:14-16) & then turn around and give the evil 'spirit' satan Immortality???
Yet, the Word of Christ God, from start to finish, has given much 'INSPIRATION' on the subject of death, not just by three penman!! Unless one does not think that much of the Holy Spirits Inspiration?? Matthew 10:28 is in Christ's own Words states:
"And fear not them which kill the body: but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to [destroy both the body and the soul in hell]."
And the Obadiah 1:16 verse tell ETERNITY what that means! And the Holy Spirit's INSPIRATION makes it VERY CLEAR again in [both] Ezekiel 18:4 [&] Ezekiel 18:20 the SOUL that sinneth it [SHALL DIE]."
Yet, most we see will not 'LIVE BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD' from start to finish, they believe the devils first lie that ye shall not surely die, instead. Whatever? :roll:
Lewis
Member
[/quote:5b1a9]John the Baptist said:
I have been real busy the last couple of days John. Yeah and I think that they are following you around, as a matter of fact look out your window across the street. You see that guy with the dark glasses and the trench coat acting like he is reading a newspaper ? Well thats one of the Vatican agents, assigned to keep an eye on you.
T
thessalonian
Guest
Darn Jesuits are everywhere. :shocked!:
J
John the Baptist
Guest
Death?
purgatory
'an intermediate state after death for expiatory purification'
'a place or state of temporary punishment'
So says Webster's New Dictionary
purgatory
'an intermediate state after death for expiatory purification'
'a place or state of temporary punishment'
So says Webster's New Dictionary