Bible Study What Happens When We die

[for_his_glory]

2Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all as no one has even gone to heaven, except Jesus who ascended back to heaven, John 3:13.

If you go back to verse one and two in chapter 5 the tabernacle being spoken of is our fleshly body and when we are in the flesh we are separated from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Romans 8:6, 7, and God can not see our flesh, John 9:31. Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. When we are in the flesh or at home in the body this is our natural carnal being that God can not see because of the sin nature in us. When we are in the Spirit allowing Gods Spirit to take over the flesh then we are in the presence of the Lord through the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

God breathed life into us and when this flesh body dies that spirit of life that was breathed in us will go back to God, Ecclesiastics 12:7, and this flesh body will return to the dust of the ground from where it came from until we are resurrected when Jesus comes to take us into the clouds, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, which is the first heaven that is atmosphere where we will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

(Note: there are three heavens)
First heaven is the firmament, Earths Atmosphere, which is the immediate sky, Genesis 2:19; 7:3, 23; Psalms 8:8; Lamentations 4:19. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

Nowhere in the Bible does it state what we will actually look like when we return with Jesus when he plants His feet on the Mount of Olives and fights the final battle as described in Zechariah chapter 4, except that we will be conformed to His glorious body, Philippians 3:21; 1Corinthians 15:43; 1John 3:2. After this final siege of Jerusalem is won by Christ forever then the new heaven and new earth will be ushered in as the old heaven and earth will pass away.

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God. Only those who have faith in Christ are those who are spiritually alive while those with unbelief in Christ are spiritually dead, 1Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26; Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13.

The spirit that is in man is either the spirit that connects with God or connects with the principalities of this world, the ruler of wickedness in dark places. Just because a person lives a good life, helps others and seems to be an all around good person whether they are alive or dead when Christ returns will be resurrected unto damnation if they are not renewed by the Spirit of God through His grace for their remissions of sin.

Now is the time for repentance as Matthew 24:36 says that no one knows when Jesus
will return, not even himself or the angels, but God alone knows when. It could be in our lifetime, but if not one must also be prepared before the grave. John 5:22-30

 

[Eugene]

no one has even gone to heaven, except Jesus who ascended back to heaven, John 3:13.

Dear Sister for_his_glory, before I go any further into your post I would like clarification on the following point.
You use Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven, and to my understanding that is said by Jesus prior to Him dying and making a place for the rest of us.

I think Paul below in 2 Corinthians receives the revelation he speaks of in
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Thanks.

 

[th1b.taylor]

2Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all as no one has even gone to heaven, except Jesus who ascended back to heaven, John 3:13.

Sorry and I pray we have, only, a textual misread here but this is not true. Not the very hour, not the very minute, not even the very second my spirit leaves this body of sin but the very, unmeasurable instant I leave this form, I, in the spirit, the image of God in me, I will be with Jesus and those saints spoken of in Matt 27:52 and following.

 

[for_his_glory]

Dear Sister for_his_glory, before I go any further into your post I would like clarification on the following point.
You use Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven, and to my understanding that is said by Jesus prior to Him dying and making a place for the rest of us.

I think Paul below in 2 Corinthians receives the revelation he speaks of in
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Thanks.

1Corinthians 15:50-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:14-18 say that those who have died (physically) in the Lord are asleep in the grave until the coming of the Lord then those who lay asleep in the grave will rise as we who are alive will be gathered with them to meet the Lord in the air and then we will be with the Lord forever.

I believe what Paul is saying in 2Cor 12:2-4 is that he met a man that was caught up in the spirit (Angel speaking to him) much like that of John who was also caught up in the spirit (Angel) and was given revelations. It's only by the revelations of Jesus that we receive a deeper understanding of His word. If you go back to vs. 1 Paul is talking about receiving visions and revelations of the Lord.

 

[Chopper]

I'm not so sure that I agree with your first statement. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you are saying that when we die we don't go directly to be with Jesus in heaven. I'm just not sure what you were saying.

I understand your statement that flesh can't co-exist in heaven with Jesus and that's true. When I die, my body with my flesh self dies with it and returns to dust. My soul/spirit goes to be with Jesus. So much is said about us going to heaven. I don't believe that that's entirely true. The heavens and earth have been ruined as compared with how they were in the beginning because of sin and Satan. That's why God will destroy the heavens and earth.

Now the question is. If God cannot reside in a sinful place, where is He? There is a place called the New Jerusalem. This place is, as Jesus said, My Father's House.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I believe that this place is where God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit, have always resided. The New Jerusalem will be the Capital City of the new heaven and earth. All saints who are absent from the body and present with the Lord are here in the New Jerusalem with Jesus and all departed Saints.....Just something to think about.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry and I pray we have, only, a textual misread here but this is not true. Not the very hour, not the very minute, not even the very second my spirit leaves this body of sin but the very, unmeasurable instant I leave this form, I, in the spirit, the image of God in me, I will be with Jesus and those saints spoken of in Matt 27:52 and following.

Bill, that verse has always puzzled me and will dig deeper into it and get back to you.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not so sure that I agree with your first statement. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you are saying that when we die we don't go directly to be with Jesus in heaven. I'm just not sure what you were saying.

I understand your statement that flesh can't co-exist in heaven with Jesus and that's true. When I die, my body with my flesh self dies with it and returns to dust. My soul/spirit goes to be with Jesus. So much is said about us going to heaven. I don't believe that that's entirely true. The heavens and earth have been ruined as compared with how they were in the beginning because of sin and Satan. That's why God will destroy the heavens and earth.

Now the question is. If God cannot reside in a sinful place, where is He? There is a place called the New Jerusalem. This place is, as Jesus said, My Father's House.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I believe that this place is where God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit, have always resided. The New Jerusalem will be the Capital City of the new heaven and earth. All saints who are absent from the body and present with the Lord are here in the New Jerusalem with Jesus and all departed Saints.....Just something to think about.

Hi Chopper, I will be back tomorrow to answer you as I need to get out of here for the night and do some studying so I can answer Bill and your questions. God bless and have a great evening

 

[JohnDB]

On the Mount of Transfiguration... Exactly who was there?

God is not the God of the dead but the living.

Again I will refer you to John 11. The soul who believes in Jesus will not die even if his body dies.

 

[Eugene]

1Corinthians 15:50-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:14-18 say that those who have died (physically) in the Lord are asleep in the grave until the coming of the Lord then those who lay asleep in the grave will rise as we who are alive will be gathered with them to meet the Lord in the air and then we will be with the Lord forever.

I won't contend over my interpretation because that won't get me closer in my spiritual walk, but I'll give my opinion that when we read of those asleep in the grave it is speaking of our bodies, while our spirit is caught up into the paradise now above (2 Cor 12:4.) We do read in:
2 Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When Jesus died he descended to paradise which was below where the righteous dead were, thus we read in Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him (Thief on the cross), Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. If paradise was in the lower parts of the earth at that time, it is now in heaven above according to 2 Cor 12:4 How that he was caught UP into paradise . .
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.)

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Eugene]

On the Mount of Transfiguration... Exactly who was there?

God is not the God of the dead but the living.

Again I will refer you to John 11. The soul who believes in Jesus will not die even if his body dies.

Hi Brother JohnDB, I'm assuming by your response that you're talking of Lazarus being alive even though his body was asleep; not that Lazarus was in heaven because at that time Jesus had not yet risen Himself.

 

[Malachi]

2Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all as no one has even gone to heaven, except Jesus who ascended back to heaven, John 3:13.

Why don't you accept the plain statements of Scripture, instead of making up your own theology? To be absent from the body is indeed to b e present with the Lord, for those who belong to the Lord. The martyr Stephen is an excellent example of what happens to a Christian when he dies (Acts 7 & 8). And when Christ was resurrected, He took all the Old Testament saints with Him, and they are now in Heaven, along with the New Testament saints. Please see Hebrews 12:22-24.

 

[JohnDB]

Hi Brother JohnDB, I'm assuming by your response that you're talking of Lazarus being alive even though his body was asleep; not that Lazarus was in heaven because at that time Jesus had not yet risen Himself.

Actually... It's a quote of Jesus' words...kinda not precise but the essence of what He said. Look it up...I think that you will be surprised.

 

[Malachi]

1Corinthians 15:50-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:14-18 say that those who have died (physically) in the Lord are asleep in the grave until the coming of the Lord then those who lay asleep in the grave will rise as we who are alive will be gathered with them to meet the Lord in the air and then we will be with the Lord forever.

So you are promoting the soul sleep doctrine (which is false). The term "sleep" applies to the body resting in the grave and giving the appearance of sleep. At the same time, the soul and spirit are very much alive in Heaven. Please note what Scripture reveals below (Acts 7:55-8:2), and please abandon your false perception of "sleep":

But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God....And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

Where was Jesus? In Heaven, at the right hand of God
Where did Stephen request that his spirit be received? In Heaven and by Jesus
Where was his body? In the grave ("to his burial).
What did "he fell asleep" mean? He died.

BTW, that reference to the Resurrection/Rapture reveals that the souls and spirits of the saints will accompany Jesus and be joined to their resurrected bodies and then taken back to Heaven. It does not mean that all the saints are sleeping in their graves.

 

[Eugene]

Eugene said: ↑
Hi Brother JohnDB, I'm assuming by your response that you're talking of Lazarus being alive even though his body was asleep; not that Lazarus was in heaven because at that time Jesus had not yet risen Himself.

Actually... It's a quote of Jesus' words...kinda not precise but the essence of what He said. Look it up...I think that you will be surprised.

What I see is that we who believe have eternal life just as Lazarus did.

 

[iLOVE]

So you are promoting the soul sleep doctrine (which is false).

The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry and I pray we have, only, a textual misread here but this is not true. Not the very hour, not the very minute, not even the very second my spirit leaves this body of sin but the very, unmeasurable instant I leave this form, I, in the spirit, the image of God in me, I will be with Jesus and those saints spoken of in Matt 27:52 and following.

Hi Bill, it's a new day and my mind isn't so fuzzy now, LOL.
It's only the breath/spirit that goes back to God when this flesh returns back to the ground from whence it came.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matthew 27:52, 53 I believe is a cross reference to Ezekiel 37:1-14 as there is no other place in scripture that speaks about these two verses. The dry bones represent the restoration of Israel under the new leadership of King David as God breathed a new breath into them and restored their land. This I believe is the same in Matthew's account of those who rose from their graves being a metaphor that the people of God are now under a new leadership in Christ Jesus who has breathed new life in all of us and have restored us back to God. No where does it say those who rose from their graves went to heaven, but only in the city.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not so sure that I agree with your first statement. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you are saying that when we die we don't go directly to be with Jesus in heaven. I'm just not sure what you were saying.

I understand your statement that flesh can't co-exist in heaven with Jesus and that's true. When I die, my body with my flesh self dies with it and returns to dust. My soul/spirit goes to be with Jesus. So much is said about us going to heaven. I don't believe that that's entirely true. The heavens and earth have been ruined as compared with how they were in the beginning because of sin and Satan. That's why God will destroy the heavens and earth.

Now the question is. If God cannot reside in a sinful place, where is He? There is a place called the New Jerusalem. This place is, as Jesus said, My Father's House.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I believe that this place is where God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit, have always resided. The New Jerusalem will be the Capital City of the new heaven and earth. All saints who are absent from the body and present with the Lord are here in the New Jerusalem with Jesus and all departed Saints.....Just something to think about.

There are three heavens that are described in scripture.

First heaven is the firmament, Earths Atmosphere, which is the immediate sky, Genesis 2:19; 7:3, 23; Psalms 8:8; Lamentations 4:19. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

According to Rev 21:1-3 What God is ushering down from the third heaven where He resides is a renewed heaven, earth and Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord forever. When this flesh dies it returns back to the ground from where it was made and it is our spirit/breath that goes back to God until Christ returns and we are raised incorruptable and receive a new glorified body.

Genesis 3:19; Ecc 12:7; Isaiah 52:1; 54:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2; 1Corinthians 15:52-56; 1Thess 4:14-18

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not so sure that I agree with your first statement. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you are saying that when we die we don't go directly to be with Jesus in heaven. I'm just not sure what you were saying.

I understand your statement that flesh can't co-exist in heaven with Jesus and that's true. When I die, my body with my flesh self dies with it and returns to dust. My soul/spirit goes to be with Jesus. So much is said about us going to heaven. I don't believe that that's entirely true. The heavens and earth have been ruined as compared with how they were in the beginning because of sin and Satan. That's why God will destroy the heavens and earth.

Now the question is. If God cannot reside in a sinful place, where is He? There is a place called the New Jerusalem. This place is, as Jesus said, My Father's House.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I believe that this place is where God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit, have always resided. The New Jerusalem will be the Capital City of the new heaven and earth. All saints who are absent from the body and present with the Lord are here in the New Jerusalem with Jesus and all departed Saints.....Just something to think about.

There are three heavens that are described in scripture.

First heaven is the firmament, Earths Atmosphere, which is the immediate sky, Genesis 2:19; 7:3, 23; Psalms 8:8; Lamentations 4:19. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

According to Rev 21:1-3 What God is ushering down from the third heaven where He resides is a renewed heaven, earth and Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord forever. When this flesh dies it returns back to the ground from where it was made and it is our spirit/breath that goes back to God until Christ returns and we are raised incorruptible and receive a new glorified body.

Genesis 3:19; Ecc 12:7; Isaiah 52:1; 54:5; 2 Corinthians 11:2; 1Corinthians 15:52-56; 1Thess 4:14-18

On the Mount of Transfiguration... Exactly who was there?

God is not the God of the dead but the living.

Again I will refer you to John 11. The soul who believes in Jesus will not die even if his body dies.

 

[for_his_glory]

On the Mount of Transfiguration... Exactly who was there?

God is not the God of the dead but the living.

Again I will refer you to John 11. The soul who believes in Jesus will not die even if his body dies.

I never said the soul dies as the soul is connected to that spirit/breath that God breathed in us that only goes back to God when this flesh dies. According to Matthew 17:9, 13 this was only a vision much like that of John when the angel gave him to write revelations as he was also in the Spirit. Moses and Elias (Elias being John the baptist) are both still in the grave and have not gone to heaven.

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.

Mat 14:10 And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.
Mat 14:11 And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother.
Mat 14:12 And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus.

This body/flesh dies and deteriorates as it turns back to dust while in the ground. The breath/spirit goes back to God who gave it, Ecc 12:7. The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

Without the spirit/breath from God our soul would not be alive as spirit and soul are connected, Genesis 2:7. When we physically die our soul also dies as the breath goes back to God who gave it. 1Cor 15 speaks of the resurrection of the dead. We will not be raised from the grave in our old physical bodies, but will be changed into that likeness of Christ in all His glory

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[for_his_glory]

I won't contend over my interpretation because that won't get me closer in my spiritual walk, but I'll give my opinion that when we read of those asleep in the grave it is speaking of our bodies, while our spirit is caught up into the paradise now above (2 Cor 12:4.) We do read in:
2 Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When Jesus died he descended to paradise which was below where the righteous dead were, thus we read in Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him (Thief on the cross), Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. If paradise was in the lower parts of the earth at that time, it is now in heaven above according to 2 Cor 12:4 How that he was caught UP into paradise . .
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.)

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

The soul/spirit is the very breath of God breathed into us that goes back to God until Jesus returns and at that moment we are raised incorruptible, immortal with a new glorified body, but yet will not know what we will look like, 1John 3:2. I believe what 2 Cor 5:6, 7 means that when we get into the flesh we separate our self from the Lord, but when we get into the spirit of God that dwells in us we then are always present with the Lord. Do we walk by faith or by sight! Do we walk carnally or Spiritually! One separates us and one joins us to God.