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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study What Happens When We die
- Thread starter for_his_glory
- Start date
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Please explain John 3:13 as this is what Jesus said, not me. You can not just take two verses like that of Hebrews 12:22-24 to make a point as you need to read back to vs. 5 to know that the one who wrote Hebrews is talking about enduring the chastisements of God who corrects His children. We have seen the goodness of the Lord as we have tasted His glory, Psalms 34:8, and have come to that Spiritual relationship with Christ is what is meant in vs. 22-24. Please show scripture where OT saints are now in the third heaven where God sits on His throne.
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
(Does not say where God took him)
Heb 11:5 by faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere)
Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.
I do not believe in the soul sleep teachings that are out there as they are a false teaching. It's our soul/spirit/breath that goes back to God when this physical body dies and returns to the ground from whence it came, Ecc 12:7. This body/flesh dies and deteriorates as it turns back to dust while in the ground. The breath/spirit goes back to God who gave it, Ecc 12:7. The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
Yes they do and these are false teachings they promote.
th1b.taylor
Member
I'm sorry but that does not work. This is not a parable Jesus used to illustrate a future prophetic event. Matthew was recording an event he witnessed where as EZE. 37-39 were and began to be fulfilled on May 14, 1948.
iLOVE
Member
Could you please explain this statement.
There are no other scriptures that speak of the events in Matthew 27:52, 53 as it just sort of stands there all by itself. We know Lazarus was raised from the grave, but also died and still in the grave. Scripture only says they went into Jerusalem and were seen by many, but never says they went to heaven. You are right as it's not a parable, but I see it as a shadow in the OT of the state of Israel back in the day who broke covenant with God as they were full of dead men's bones (dry bones) walking in their own imaginations worshipping other gods. Just like the scribes and Pharisees who Jesus condemns in Matthew 23:13-36. Even today many are full of dead men's bones, Matthew 23:27, even though we have a new covenant of grace through that of the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Many claim Christ, but truly have no relationship with him (dry men's bones). Our everlasting covenant is now with Christ in whom is the grace of God, Eze 16:60.
(Side note
The way Matthew 27:52,53 reads with the added punctuation and how the English translation reads I wonder if this is speaking about Jesus going into the city after His resurrection and was seen by many as an earthquake would cause graves to be opened and those in the graves to fall out of them. Just how my mind thinks at times 
and no I am not justifying anything, just pondering.
We know the flesh will turn back to dust as it lays in the grave as that is a fact. God gives us His breath that makes us a living soul is a fact. With that said the immortal or to say our spiritual part where the Holy Spirit dwells in us is separate from this flesh as we know flesh and spirit can not mix, John3:6, and flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God, 1Corinthians 15:50. We have a choice to have eternal life with the Father (happiness) or take part of the lake of fire that separates us from God forever (misery).
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RevSRE
Supporter
AMEN and AMEN
Malachi
Member
So why are you having such a problem with saying that the soul and spirit of all believers go directly to the Lord upon death? Do you rely on Ecclesiastes for New Testament truth?
I've said that all along that soul/spirit/breath returns back to God as that is the breath of God which made us a living soul. When this flesh returns back to the dust of the ground it's that very breath that goes back to God who reserves it until the end of days when Christ returns for His Bride. God will breathe a new glorified body for us, but no one knows what that will look like other than it will look like that of the glorified body of Jesus.
Yes I rely on the OT as well as the NT. You can't have one without the other. It's called comparing scripture with scripture, OT with NT as we study by allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us and give us understanding. Genesis 3:19; 1Corinthians 15:42-58; 1Thessalonians 4:1Revelation 19:7-9. Gods word is the same yesterday, today and forever and never changes, but man misinterprets it by traditional teachings that are taught from a carnal mind.
Malachi
Member
One does not go back to before the Fall to determine what happens to souls and spirits. There is plenty of New Testament truth to show that what you have said is inconsistent with what is revealed in the NT.
How can you not go back to the very beginning to understand what soul/spirit/breath means and who gave it and then compare that to what is being resurrected as in the mortal/immortal, corruptible/incorruptible when Jesus returns. Does history teach us nothing! Are we to just throw away the OT and only live by the new covenant of Christ in the NT! God forbid.
th1b.taylor
Member
Malachi,
You and I are generally so close on doctrinal issues that it is difficult to see any difference but here, you have left me behind. I believe you should be able to agree that the Bible Jesus taught from was and is the Jewish Scrolls, the Jewish Bible, that Christians, since, have divided to create more easily referenced addresses and we, Christians, have labled The Old Testament.
God has not changed the scriptures but when, what we know as the New Testament, was given to us, all twenty-seven books were and do comment on the Bible, instructing us on the Life Applications God wants us to use.
With this known, the futility of the later day, false doctrines of the new New Testament and New Covenant Church Movements is clearly seen. We cannot work out of the New Testament without seeking the source material from the Bible, itself.
You and I are generally so close on doctrinal issues that it is difficult to see any difference but here, you have left me behind. I believe you should be able to agree that the Bible Jesus taught from was and is the Jewish Scrolls, the Jewish Bible, that Christians, since, have divided to create more easily referenced addresses and we, Christians, have labled The Old Testament.
God has not changed the scriptures but when, what we know as the New Testament, was given to us, all twenty-seven books were and do comment on the Bible, instructing us on the Life Applications God wants us to use.
With this known, the futility of the later day, false doctrines of the new New Testament and New Covenant Church Movements is clearly seen. We cannot work out of the New Testament without seeking the source material from the Bible, itself.
Malachi
Member
One of the fundamental principles of Bible interpretation is that God's revelation is progressive. (Compare Exodus 20 and Matthew 5-7).
When Adam was created as "perfect" (God said "very good" and for us it means "perfect") he had not only a living soul but a living spirit. That changed after his disobedience, therefore all human beings are born spiritually dead. That is also why Jesus said "Ye must be born again".
From Adam until the resurrection of Christ all souls and spirits went to Sheol/Hades -- NOT BACK TO GOD. Within Sheol/Hades there were two regions -- the region of the just (the righteous dead) -- called "Abraham's bosom" and the region of the unjust (unrighteous dead) -- a place of torment.
Following the resurrection of Christ, the spirits of just men went to the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:22-24). Now every believer who dies in Christ goes to be with Christ (the soul and spirit). The body "sleeps" in the grave.
I trust you can see now why we do not say that God's "breath" returns to Him. That is false doctrine.
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Malachi
Member
Absolutely. We cannot and must not ignore the Old Testament, since those things were written for our learning and the entire OT reveals Christ. At the same time, Christian doctrine must be based squarely on the New Covenant which also happens to be the New Testament. You will find the "soul sleep" proponents harking back to Ecclesiastes and ignoring the NT.
A friendly reminder to us all lets not get into personal attacks not necessarily directed at the last poster
Recommendations and Guidelines for an effective Bible Study
Though not exhaustive, I thought it might help to better define the purpose of the Bible Study Forum, and by doing so, better assist one another with a clearer method to understanding God’s word.
Guidelines
1. Scripture is the basis of study. Stay close to the text.
2. Keep your post to a manageable length where others can respond to a section of scripture as opposed to an entire article.
3. We encourage your understanding of a text. If you wish to post snipits from a website, please make sure it accompanies your comments of the text. Excessive copy / paste from web sites are frowned upon.
4. If you disagree with an interpretation of scripture, think out your response according to the specific text and post accordingly.
5. No debating doctrines or denominational differences. (E.G. TULIP, OSAS, Purgatory, Papacy etc)
The following considerations are suggested to assist in our study of Holy Scripture. This method utilizes an instructional and comprehensive approach
1.Exegesis; Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text. (I.E. What does the text mean?)
2.Hermeneutics; The theory and methodology of interpretation, especially of scriptural text. (I.E. How did you come to the conclusion of your Exegesis? Does it agree with the Bible as a whole?)
3.Redaction; to draw up or frame ( I.E. a statement, proclamation, etc.)
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Recommendations and Guidelines for an effective Bible Study
Though not exhaustive, I thought it might help to better define the purpose of the Bible Study Forum, and by doing so, better assist one another with a clearer method to understanding God’s word.
Guidelines
1. Scripture is the basis of study. Stay close to the text.
2. Keep your post to a manageable length where others can respond to a section of scripture as opposed to an entire article.
3. We encourage your understanding of a text. If you wish to post snipits from a website, please make sure it accompanies your comments of the text. Excessive copy / paste from web sites are frowned upon.
4. If you disagree with an interpretation of scripture, think out your response according to the specific text and post accordingly.
5. No debating doctrines or denominational differences. (E.G. TULIP, OSAS, Purgatory, Papacy etc)
The following considerations are suggested to assist in our study of Holy Scripture. This method utilizes an instructional and comprehensive approach
1.Exegesis; Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text. (I.E. What does the text mean?)
2.Hermeneutics; The theory and methodology of interpretation, especially of scriptural text. (I.E. How did you come to the conclusion of your Exegesis? Does it agree with the Bible as a whole?)
3.Redaction; to draw up or frame ( I.E. a statement, proclamation, etc.)
*************************************************************************************