Bible Study What Happens When We die

[GodsGrace]

One of the fundamental principles of Bible interpretation is that God's revelation is progressive. (Compare Exodus 20 and Matthew 5-7).

When Adam was created as "perfect" (God said "very good" and for us it means "perfect") he had not only a living soul but a living spirit. That changed after his disobedience, therefore all human beings are born spiritually dead. That is also why Jesus said "Ye must be born again".

From Adam until the resurrection of Christ all souls and spirits went to Sheol/Hades -- NOT BACK TO GOD. Within Sheol/Hades there were two regions -- the region of the just (the righteous dead) -- called "Abraham's bosom" and the region of the unjust (unrighteous dead) -- a place of torment.

Following the resurrection of Christ, the spirits of just men went to the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:22-24). Now every believer who dies in Christ goes to be with Christ (the soul and spirit). The body "sleeps" in the grave.

I trust you can see now why we do not say that God's "breath" returns to Him. That is false doctrine.

You're referring to Luke 16:19-26
You're right, of course.

I ran through quick - did anyone answer re John 3:13:
It's simple. No MAN has gone up to heaven and come back down. Only Jesus has seen heaven, come down and finally gone back up.
I believe this is all it means. No mystery.

Also, I think it hasn't been said (may be wrong) that some of these scriptures are referring to the end times and resurrection. Sometimes it gets a little mixed up.

Our spirit goes to be with the Lord immediately
Our body (glorified) joins us at the resurrection at the end time.

W

 

[th1b.taylor]

Absolutely. We cannot and must not ignore the Old Testament, since those things were written for our learning and the entire OT reveals Christ. At the same time, Christian doctrine must be based squarely on the New Covenant which also happens to be the New Testament. You will find the "soul sleep" proponents harking back to Ecclesiastes and ignoring the NT.

Okay, but nothing is grounded in the New Testament, the New Testament explains what we did not understand about the Bible.

 

[for_his_glory]

One of the fundamental principles of Bible interpretation is that God's revelation is progressive. (Compare Exodus 20 and Matthew 5-7).

When Adam was created as "perfect" (God said "very good" and for us it means "perfect") he had not only a living soul but a living spirit. That changed after his disobedience, therefore all human beings are born spiritually dead. That is also why Jesus said "Ye must be born again".

From Adam until the resurrection of Christ all souls and spirits went to Sheol/Hades -- NOT BACK TO GOD. Within Sheol/Hades there were two regions -- the region of the just (the righteous dead) -- called "Abraham's bosom" and the region of the unjust (unrighteous dead) -- a place of torment.

Following the resurrection of Christ, the spirits of just men went to the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:22-24). Now every believer who dies in Christ goes to be with Christ (the soul and spirit). The body "sleeps" in the grave.

I trust you can see now why we do not say that God's "breath" returns to Him. That is false doctrine.

Breath, spirit and soul are all the same thing as God breaths His breath into our spirit that makes us a living soul. Once again as I have stated over and over again it is the breath/spirit/soul that goes back to God when we physically die. God is making ready the New Jerusalem that will be ushered down to earth at the end of days when Jesus gathers His bride. Those who have died in Christ whose names are written in the Lambs book of life will be resurrected from the grave with a new glorified body and stand before Christ to give an account for the things done here on earth as our rewards are stored up in heaven. Those who die who have not Christ found in them will stand before God in His great white throne judgement and then will be cast into the lake of fire. None of this happens until the end of Days on that great and terrible day of the Lord. 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation chapters 19, 20, 21

Strong's Exhausted Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.

The English word hell, back in 1611, meant about the same as Hades, that being covered or unseen as in grave/pit. We do not see those in the grave as they are unseen to the eye as they are covered with dirt, or some placed in a tomb. The word hell is derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place. The habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits.

 

[for_his_glory]

Malachi you said: One of the fundamental principles of Bible interpretation is that God's revelation is progressive.

Not sure what you mean by that as Gods word interprets itself when we compare OT with NT as the Holy Spirit gives us understanding. Without the knowledge of the OT we would not understand the grace of God through Christ Jesus in the NT.

BTW, I will not entertain any law vs grace for that is not the topic.

 

[GodsGrace]

Breath, spirit and soul are all the same thing as God breaths His breath into our spirit that makes us a living soul. Once again as I have stated over and over again it is the breath/spirit/soul that goes back to God when we physically die. God is making ready the New Jerusalem that will be ushered down to earth at the end of days when Jesus gathers His bride. Those who have died in Christ whose names are written in the Lambs book of life will be resurrected from the grave with a new glorified body and stand before Christ to give an account for the things done here on earth as our rewards are stored up in heaven. Those who die who have not Christ found in them will stand before God in His great white throne judgement and then will be cast into the lake of fire. None of this happens until the end of Days on that great and terrible day of the Lord. 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation chapters 19, 20, 21

Strong's Exhausted Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.

The English word hell, back in 1611, meant about the same as Hades, that being covered or unseen as in grave/pit. We do not see those in the grave as they are unseen to the eye as they are covered with dirt, or some placed in a tomb. The word hell is derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place. The habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits.

Actually the word "hell" does appear one time in the N.T.
It's in 2 Peter 2:4 and refers to a place where we find fallen angels awaiting judgement.
I know because I've had to look it up. Someone I know has a strange idea that only fallen angels are going to hell. It's a problem when a word does not appear in the N.T. but only the concept. Like the Holy Trinity, for example.

 

[GodsGrace]

For His Glory

I just thought of one aspect of progressive revelation.
Progressive revelation just means that God didn't tell us everything all at once.
Just one thing - I'm sure posters will give more.
The knowledge of the after-life was progressive.
The Pharisees believed in the after.life.
The Sadducees did not.

Then Jesus came and taught that the after-life does indeed exist.
John 3:16
John 11:25-26

Wondering

 

[for_his_glory]

Actually the word "hell" does appear one time in the N.T.
It's in 2 Peter 2:4 and refers to a place where we find fallen angels awaiting judgement.
I know because I've had to look it up. Someone I know has a strange idea that only fallen angels are going to hell. It's a problem when a word does not appear in the N.T. but only the concept. Like the Holy Trinity, for example.

All these scriptures in the KJV have the word hell spoken in them
Matthew 5:22; 5:29; 10:28; 11:23; 16:18; 18:9; 23:15;23:33
Luke 10:15; 12:516:23
Acts 2:31
James 3:6
2Peter 2:4
Revelation 1:18; 20:13

 

[for_his_glory]

For His Glory

I just thought of one aspect of progressive revelation.
Progressive revelation just means that God didn't tell us everything all at once.
Just one thing - I'm sure posters will give more.
The knowledge of the after-life was progressive.
The Pharisees believed in the after.life.
The Sadducees did not.

Then Jesus came and taught that the after-life does indeed exist.
John 3:16
John 11:25-26

Wondering

We will never exhaust the word of God as we are ever learning. There is an after life when this flesh dies and returns back to the dust of the ground from whence it came from. When this mortal is changed immortal and this corruptible is changed incorruptible and we are given new glorified bodies which no one knows what we will look like, but will be like that of Christ in His glorified body.
1Corinthians 15:42-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1John 3:1,2

Those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life will stand in Gods great white throne judgement where they will be cast into the lake of fire and remembered no more, Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Breath, spirit and soul are all the same thing as God breaths His breath into our spirit that makes us a living soul. Once again as I have stated over and over again it is the breath/spirit/soul that goes back to God when we physically die. God is making ready the New Jerusalem that will be ushered down to earth at the end of days when Jesus gathers His bride. Those who have died in Christ whose names are written in the Lambs book of life will be resurrected from the grave with a new glorified body and stand before Christ to give an account for the things done here on earth as our rewards are stored up in heaven. Those who die who have not Christ found in them will stand before God in His great white throne judgement and then will be cast into the lake of fire. None of this happens until the end of Days on that great and terrible day of the Lord. 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation chapters 19, 20, 21

Strong's Exhausted Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.

The English word hell, back in 1611, meant about the same as Hades, that being covered or unseen as in grave/pit. We do not see those in the grave as they are unseen to the eye as they are covered with dirt, or some placed in a tomb. The word hell is derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place. The habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits.

After reading your posts, I can say that within my study, II Cor. 12:2-4, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel All saw glorious visions of heaven and God's throne in heaven Isaiah 6, Ezekiel 1, 10, Daniel 7.

What happens When we die: Sheol and hades refers to the place of the dead, which includes the grave where the dead body is buried. This is well known and admitted by everybody. However, is there more to it than that? What happens to the “spirit” in man? Many seem to think that when a man dies, his spirit dies or perishes, also.

However, the Messiah said, “It is the Spirit who gives LIFE; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63). Spirit cannot “die” – spirit gives LIFE!

The apostle Paul wrote, “For we know that the law [of God] is spiritual” Rom.7:14). Yet, we also know that the law of God is ETERNAL. David wrote, “All His precepts are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness” (Psalm 111:7-8).

Confirming that spirit is eternal, ever-lasting, Paul also wrote: “For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal” (II Cor.4:18).

Spirit is that which cannot be seen by human eyes. Yeshua said to Nicodemus that a man cannot see the kingdom of God unless He is “born again” (John 3:3). He added, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. . . The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:6-8).

 

[th1b.taylor]

All these scriptures in the KJV have the word hell spoken in them
Matthew 5:22; 5:29; 10:28; 11:23; 16:18; 18:9; 23:15;23:33
Luke 10:15; 12:516:23
Acts 2:31
James 3:6
2Peter 2:4
Revelation 1:18; 20:13

Now, please be considerate here. I am left to assume you are using the thought for thought, King James version but some of us prefer a word for word translation and in the more accurate translation, the word, Hell, is not that common. The manor to express yourself without sticking barbs into others is to always not the version you use because very few are as familiar with different versions as I am and if I were to read your post as an answer to one of mine, it would be easy to assume you were tossing barbs on purpose and that is how useless contests of will begin.

 

[Malachi]

Malachi you said: One of the fundamental principles of Bible interpretation is that God's revelation is progressive. Not sure what you mean by that...

In response to both you and Bro Taylor, let's examine a couple of Scriptures which will clarify this:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)... God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...(Hebrew 1:1,2).

Do you see the clear distinction about what was revealed through the Prophets (the OT or Tanakh) and what was revealed personally by the Lord Jesus Christ (NT), and subsequently by His apostles? This is progressive revelation. While we see Christ in both type and substance in the OT, we actually have His recorded words and commandments in the NT. Thus Christians base their doctrines squarely on the NT (supported by the OT where feasible).

The doctrine of the afterlife was not clear in the OT and all the references to Sheol did not give us the full picture. But when we come to the NT, we have Hades (=Sheol), Gehenna, Tartarus, and the Lake of Fire. We also have the resurrection of Christ and its impact on the righteous dead.

We were informed erroneously that just as God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, when people die the breath of God simply returns to Him. Well that is totally false in view of what the NT reveals. Thus we do not base our doctrine of the afterlife on Genesis or Ecclesiastes, but on the NT.

 

[GodsGrace]

All these scriptures in the KJV have the word hell spoken in them
Matthew 5:22; 5:29; 10:28; 11:23; 16:18; 18:9; 23:15;23:33
Luke 10:15; 12:516:23
Acts 2:31
James 3:6
2Peter 2:4
Revelation 1:18; 20:13

FHG
The word "hell" appears only one time in the N.T.

Trust me, I did a study on this...

Mathew 5:22 Gehenna
Mathew 5:29 Gehenna
Mathew 10:28 Gehenna
Mathew 11:23 Hades
Mathew 16:18 Hades
Mathew 18:9 Gehenna
Mathew 23:15 Gehenna
Mathew 23:33 Gehenna
Luke 10:15 Hades
Luke 12:5 (not 51) Gehenna
Luke 6:23 ???
Acts 2:31 Hades
James 3:6 Gehenna
2 Peter 2:4 TARTARUS - hell; for fallen angels awaiting final judgement
Revelation 1:18 Hades
Revelation 20:13 Hades

The above is from the original Greek.
Hades and Gehenna did not mean "hell" since hell was not a concept in the O.T.
Hades and Gehenna mean a place where the dead go, or where garbage was burned after the exile and the Jews came back to Israel. You'd have a difficult time convincing a theology student that Gehenna and Hades should be translated "hell", as we understand hell to mean today.

I'm not saying I don't believe in hell and am not trying to make that case. It's clear from Jesus teaching on the Narrow and Wide Roads that there are two different destinations.

I'm just saying that the actual word for hell is Tartarus and appears only that one time. This presented a problem for me when discussing this so I had to go to the concept and steer clear of the word.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

In response to both you and Bro Taylor, let's examine a couple of Scriptures which will clarify this:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)... God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...(Hebrew 1:1,2).

Do you see the clear distinction about what was revealed through the Prophets (the OT or Tanakh) and what was revealed personally by the Lord Jesus Christ (NT), and subsequently by His apostles? This is progressive revelation. While we see Christ in both type and substance in the OT, we actually have His recorded words and commandments in the NT. Thus Christians base their doctrines squarely on the NT (supported by the OT where feasible).

The doctrine of the afterlife was not clear in the OT and all the references to Sheol did not give us the full picture. But when we come to the NT, we have Hades (=Sheol), Gehenna, Tartarus, and the Lake of Fire. We also have the resurrection of Christ and its impact on the righteous dead.

We were informed erroneously that just as God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, when people die the breath of God simply returns to Him. Well that is totally false in view of what the NT reveals. Thus we do not base our doctrine of the afterlife on Genesis or Ecclesiastes, but on the NT.

Hi Malchi
The above in green (mine) must have something to do with some concept I know nothing about because I generally agree with you and also with your post above the green.

Doesn't "the breath of God simply returns to Him" just mean that our spirit goes to be with God after death?
It seems like some might take it to mean something different.

Wondering

 

[Malachi]

Doesn't "the breath of God simply returns to Him" just mean that our spirit goes to be with God after death?

Wondering,
As you probably know, man is a tripartite being -- body, soul, and spirit. After Adam sinned, all human beings became sinners by birth and by choice also (Rom 3:23; 5:12). Therefore there are two groups of humans -- the saved (justified) and the lost (unrighteous).

Until the resurrection of Christ, all souls and spirits went to Sheol (Hades). Therefore it is completely false to say that the spirit goes back to God. After the resurrection of Christ, only the souls and spirits of believers go to be with Christ. The rest remain in Hades until the Great White Throne judgement.

 

[Malachi]

I'm just saying that the actual word for hell is Tartarus and appears only that one time. This presented a problem for me when discussing this so I had to go to the concept and steer clear of the word.

It is unfortunate that the KJV translators used the word "hell" indiscriminately. However, that does not give anyone an excuse to fail to study the Greek words and also the context of each use of the word. You will notice that the Lake of Fire is simply called the Lake of Fire, but that is the real eternal Hell (as the context shows).

Because people have not been careful about the word "hell" there are some who preach that Christ actually went to the Lake of Fire. But that word in Acts 2:27 is Hades and corresponds to Sheol in the OT.

 

[th1b.taylor]

This is progressive revelation. While we see Christ in both type and substance in the OT, we actually have His recorded words and commandments in the NT. Thus Christians base their doctrines squarely on the NT (supported by the OT where feasible).

I hate disagreeing with you, just so you know or FYI. But in your own round about manor you have also proven that the New Testament, as it is known, comments on what is revealed in the Bible, the Old Testament. I, in no manor disagree that the revelation is progressive, it is, but the Law, the very thing the Jews before the Christ depended on for salvation, never saved one person. The intent of the Law was the same then as it is now, to point out our sinful state to us that we would repent and turn to our LORD for salvation.

Remove the Bible and this New Testament, the clear explanation of what God was saying, becomes, perfectly baseless. I cannot read the Bible, our Old Testament, without finding the Son of God there. I know from personal life experience that a man or woman, without the Holy Spirit cannot see this but that is because God, the Trinity, wants people to seek after Him with everything a person is.

The Jews knew Paradise or Abraham's Buxom was there but seemed, cannot say for certain, to not complete the thought needed until Jesus/God in the flesh, explained or more correctly, commented on the matter. And as is explained or is made clear in the verses around Matthew 27:50, nobody went to Heaven by living the Righteous Life without the Living Grace of Jesus/God.

 

[Malachi]

The Jews knew Paradise or Abraham's [Bosom] was there but seemed, cannot say for certain, to not complete the thought needed until Jesus/God in the flesh, explained or more correctly, commented on the matter.

My point exactly. The New Testament was necessary to give us a proper understanding of the Gospel and Bible truth. Indeed without the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, we would not have the New Testament (also called the New Covenant). And we would not have a proper understanding of the afterlife either.

 

[for_his_glory]

After reading your posts, I can say that within my study, II Cor. 12:2-4, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel All saw glorious visions of heaven and God's throne in heaven Isaiah 6, Ezekiel 1, 10, Daniel 7.

What happens When we die: Sheol and hades refers to the place of the dead, which includes the grave where the dead body is buried. This is well known and admitted by everybody. However, is there more to it than that? What happens to the “spirit” in man? Many seem to think that when a man dies, his spirit dies or perishes, also.

However, the Messiah said, “It is the Spirit who gives LIFE; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63). Spirit cannot “die” – spirit gives LIFE!

The apostle Paul wrote, “For we know that the law [of God] is spiritual” Rom.7:14). Yet, we also know that the law of God is ETERNAL. David wrote, “All His precepts are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness” (Psalm 111:7-8).

Confirming that spirit is eternal, ever-lasting, Paul also wrote: “For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal” (II Cor.4:18).

Spirit is that which cannot be seen by human eyes. Yeshua said to Nicodemus that a man cannot see the kingdom of God unless He is “born again” (John 3:3). He added, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. . . The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:6-8).

Thank you for your reply. When we see those things that are spiritual it gives us a better understanding of what/who the spirit is in us that goes back to God when we physically die. We will once again be joined back to that spirit, but this time in a new glorified body when Christ returns for His Bride.

 

[for_his_glory]

In response to both you and Bro Taylor, let's examine a couple of Scriptures which will clarify this:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)... God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...(Hebrew 1:1,2).

Do you see the clear distinction about what was revealed through the Prophets (the OT or Tanakh) and what was revealed personally by the Lord Jesus Christ (NT), and subsequently by His apostles? This is progressive revelation. While we see Christ in both type and substance in the OT, we actually have His recorded words and commandments in the NT. Thus Christians base their doctrines squarely on the NT (supported by the OT where feasible).

The doctrine of the afterlife was not clear in the OT and all the references to Sheol did not give us the full picture. But when we come to the NT, we have Hades (=Sheol), Gehenna, Tartarus, and the Lake of Fire. We also have the resurrection of Christ and its impact on the righteous dead.

We were informed erroneously that just as God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, when people die the breath of God simply returns to Him. Well that is totally false in view of what the NT reveals. Thus we do not base our doctrine of the afterlife on Genesis or Ecclesiastes, but on the NT.

Can you emphasis and give scripture from the NT of what is revealed and what exactly goes back to God when this physical body dies?

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG
The word "hell" appears only one time in the N.T.

Trust me, I did a study on this...

Mathew 5:22 Gehenna
Mathew 5:29 Gehenna
Mathew 10:28 Gehenna
Mathew 11:23 Hades
Mathew 16:18 Hades
Mathew 18:9 Gehenna
Mathew 23:15 Gehenna
Mathew 23:33 Gehenna
Luke 10:15 Hades
Luke 12:5 (not 51) Gehenna
Luke 6:23 ???
Acts 2:31 Hades
James 3:6 Gehenna
2 Peter 2:4 TARTARUS - hell; for fallen angels awaiting final judgement
Revelation 1:18 Hades
Revelation 20:13 Hades

The above is from the original Greek.
Hades and Gehenna did not mean "hell" since hell was not a concept in the O.T.
Hades and Gehenna mean a place where the dead go, or where garbage was burned after the exile and the Jews came back to Israel. You'd have a difficult time convincing a theology student that Gehenna and Hades should be translated "hell", as we understand hell to mean today.

I'm not saying I don't believe in hell and am not trying to make that case. It's clear from Jesus teaching on the Narrow and Wide Roads that there are two different destinations.

I'm just saying that the actual word for hell is Tartarus and appears only that one time. This presented a problem for me when discussing this so I had to go to the concept and steer clear of the word.

Wondering

It might just depend on what Bible you use as I use two, KJV and the Jerusalem Bible. The KJV uses the word hell and the Jerusalem uses the word Hades.