What Happens When You Die...

[Osgiliath]

Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs for this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

Then when? After the silver cord breaks, the mind is brain dead, and the body loses its life. Then shall the body "dust" return to the earth as it was, before it was formed into food, and entered your mouth as food to make your flesh body healthy.
The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place.

Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

When man gets to the point of not being able to understand this promise that at death the soul goes immediately to be with the Father, then he form his religious man made ideas, and sidesteps what God's Word teaches. Friend, it takes only a short time for the body to decay, and there is no body there to resurrect. The body returns to the dirt that it is made of, and the soul departs from that body never to return to it.

God creates the flesh body for your soul to occupy, and He places your spirit within your soul. That is what gives your soul its identity. Then just as God gave it for a brief time, He will take your soul back to Himself, when the flesh body stops having life.


And the below verses from Revelation,should get rid of the soul sleep thingy

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord ,holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

You are missing this one a bit n2thelight because of numerous reasons, not the least of which is the fact that you must ignore dozens upon dozens of Scripture passages.



The "souls under the altar" are symbolic, just as ALL of the book of Revelation is SYMBOLIC:

Notice:

• Revelation 1:1 "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and SIGNIFIED it by His angel unto His servant John."

The word "signified" in the above verse is the Greek word 'semaino' which is a derivative of the word 'semo' meaning a mark or sign, or to indicate by signs or symbols. The English word SIGN-I-FIED means "to communicate by means of SIGNS and SYMBOLS."



These "souls under the altar" in the Fifth Seal are SYMBOLIC. We know this because Jesus said:

• John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Jesus said "NO ONE has ever ascended up to heaven...." so we know that these "souls under that altar" are SYMBOLIC, and not literal.


And it is very easy to understand what these souls are symbolic of if we LET THE BIBLE ITSELF EXPLAIN what they are symbolic of.




Notice what The Lord said to Cain after he slew Abel:

• Genesis 4:10 - "The Lord said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood CRIES OUT TO ME from the ground."

Did Abel's blood audibly speak? No. The Lord used personification in Genesis 4 to describe the justice that Abel's innocent blood demanded! The same is true in Revelation 6:9-11.


We know that these "souls" are NOT under The Altar of Incense but The Altar of Burnt Offering. We know this by comparing this "heavenly altar" with the altars used in the earthly temple. (Hebrews 8:1-5)


Carefully look at these verses:

• Leviticus 8:15 - "Moses slaughtered the bull and took some of the blood, and with his finger he put it on all the horns of the altar to purify the altar. He poured out the rest of the blood AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR. So he consecrated it to make atonement for it."
  
  
  [*]Exodus 29:12 "Take some of the bull's blood and put it on the horns of the altar with your finger, and pour out the rest of it AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR."
  
  
  [*]Leviticus 4:18 "He is to put some of the blood on the horns of the altar that is before the Lord in the Tent of Meeting. The rest of the blood he shall pour out AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR of burnt offering at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting."
  
  
  [*]Leviticus 9:9 "His sons brought the blood to him, and he dipped his finger into the blood and put it on the horns of the altar; the rest of the blood he poured out at THE BASE OF THE ALTAR."

In the wilderness temple, the blood of animal sacrifices was poured on the BASE OF THE ALTAR (the Altar of Burnt Offering). The reason their souls are represented as being under the altar is because that is the place where the blood of sacrifices was stored. This has nothing to do with "dead" martyrs "literally speaking" because they are conscious in Heaven literally living under the altar, this is symbolic and a "spiritual parallel" to the services that took place in the wilderness temple with regard to sacrifices (again - see Hebrews 8:1-5)


Why were those "souls undar the altar" slain?

• Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held."

The only "souls under the altar" are those souls who have been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.



Is not "our old man being crucified with Him" and being "slain for the Word of God?"

• Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

So what do the these "the souls under the altar" SIGNIFY spiritually today?

• Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

• 1 Corinthians 15:31 "I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I DIE DAILY."

• 1 Peter 2:5 "And you are living stones that God is building into his spiritual temple, a holy priesthood, to offer up SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

• 1 Corinthians 3:17 "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE."

Remember, the Altars in the "Earthly Temple" are only 'shadows' of the Altars in the true "Heavenly (spiritual) Temple" - WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE! (see Hebrews 8:1-5)

 

[for_his_glory]

What Happens When We Die

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all. If you go back to verse one and two in chapter 5 the tabernacle being spoken of is our fleshly body and when we are in the flesh we are separated from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Romans 8:6, 7, and God can not see our flesh, John 9:31. Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth – born again Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. When we are in the flesh or at home in the body this is our natural carnal being that God can not see because of the sin nature in us. When we are in the Spirit allowing Gods Spirit to take over the flesh then we are in the presence of the Lord through the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

God breathed life into us and when this flesh body dies that spirit of life that was breathed in us will go back to God, Ecclesiastics 12:7, and this flesh body will return to the dust of the ground from where it came from until we are resurrected when Jesus comes to take us into the clouds, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, which is the first heaven that is atmosphere where we will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

(Note: there are three heavens)

First heaven is the firmament, Earths Atmosphere, which is the immediate sky, Genesis 2:19; 7:3, 23; Psalms 8:8; Lamentations 4:19. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

Nowhere in the Bible does it state what we will actually look like when we return with Jesus when he plants His feet on the Mount of Olives and fights the final battle as described in Zechariah chapter 4, except that we will be conformed to His glorious body, Philippians 3:21; 1Corinthians 15:43; 1John 3:2. After this final siege of Jerusalem is won by Christ forever then the new heaven and new earth will be ushered in as the old heaven and earth will pass away.

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God. Only those who have faith in Christ are those who are spiritually alive while those with unbelief in Christ are spiritually dead, 1Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26; Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13.

The spirit that is in man is either the spirit that connects with God or connects with the principalities of this world, the ruler of wickedness in dark places. Just because a person lives a good life, helps others and seems to be an all around good person whether they are alive or dead when Christ returns will be resurrected unto damnation if they are not renewed by the Spirit of God through His grace for their remissions of sin.

Now is the time for repentance as Matthew 24:36 says that no one knows when Jesus will return, not even himself or the angels, but God alone knows when. It could be in our lifetime, but if not one must also be prepared before the grave.

John 5:22 for the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the
Son:

John 5:23 That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 for as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Revelation 14:16 and he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Revelation 14:17 and another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Revelation 14:19 and the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 and the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Butch5]

Where is Paradise? Paul plainly tells us...

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paradise is the third heaven where God's throne is.

I'm aware of that passage John, however that could understood as two different places. Also the Garden of Eden is also referred to as paradise. Additionally, Jesus said He would give to eat of the tree of life in the paradise of God to those who overcome. He was referring to the resurrection and the earthly Kingdom.

 

[Aloysium]

then is then; now is now . . . i believe we will all know when it is our time

what fear of death can exist when you know God?
all that you love is in Him . . . and He is eternal
everything that you cherish is His creation

guess we can hope that if we are not with Him now, we will be with Him then

but we are with Him always . . . my eyes yearn to open

 

[JLB]

But Steve, that proves nothing relative to the question under consideration. It merely establishes the fact of judgment - not the process following judgment, nor exactly WHEN judgment occurs after one dies. After the resurrection, those who died still only died once. In fact, the Great White Throne Judgment doesn't occur until the Thousand Year Kingdom has expired, long after the first resurrection.


Also, we must remember the following, as it especially applies to the parable of Lazarus and The Rich Man; due to the fact that Christ was still on Earth when the parable was given. No one has ever ascended to heaven:

• John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

This Scripture above from the lips of our Lord says it all. Many will use Ephesians 2:6 to try and get around this truth, but it is moot because:

• Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
  Ephesians 2:7 That in the 'AGES' to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

Yes, we "are seated with Christ in the heavens" even now, but when we die we are dead until the resurrection. And without that resurrection then "they which are asleep in Christ are perished":

• 1 Corinthians 15:17 "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
  1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished."

And there is so much Scripture that must be ignored to get around this fact:

• John 5:28-29 - "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice."
  
• Matthew 27:52 - "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose."
  
• Psalms 6:5 - "For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"
  
• Daniel 12:13 - "As for you, go your way till the end. You will sleep, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance. "
  
• John 11:11-14 - "These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."
  
• Mark 5:39 - "And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth."
  
  
• 1 Kings 2:10 - "So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David."
  
• 2 Chronicles 9:31 - "And Solomon slept with his fathers, and he was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead."
  
• 2 Chronicles 12:16 - "And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David: and Abijah his son reigned in his stead."
  
• 2 Kings 24:6 - "So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead."

Also, we must remember the following, as it especially applies to the parable of Lazarus and The Rich Man; due to the fact that Christ was still on Earth when the parable was given. No one has ever ascended to heaven:

• John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

That was true at the time He spoke it, however after He ascended to the Father, since that time, everyone who was preserved alive in Paradise, which is also called Abraham's Bosom, which is in the heart of the earth, has now ascended to heaven.

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." 9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10

First Christ descended into the heart of the earth.

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Then, after that He ascended into heaven.

Now since that time, others have ascended up to heaven -


1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."
Revelation 4:1

John the Apostle.



And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. 4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals." ...9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.


John saw these in heaven who had been redeemed from every tribe, tongue and nation. He also saw many others who had ascended to heaven.

Paul, taught to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8


Paul ascended to heaven -

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a one was caught up to the third heaven.


All of these went to heaven AFTER the words of Jesus, -

no man hath ascended up to heaven.


JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Hopefully I will have some time to reply mid to end this week. Sorry for the delay... But I do plan on visiting this thread when time allows.

 

[Vanguard]

Some good discussions have taken place here.

 

[Grazer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZC6tbgpsl4

Found this very interesting

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2