What happens when you don't pray in the spirit?

[iLOVE]

other languages (tongues ) how full of the spirit are you?

The scripture says our power is based on His favor!

 

[ezra]

If you do not accept this, you will not be accepted.

so are you saying i am not accepted ? curious was you baptized in jesus nae or the father son Holy Ghost ? have you handled serpents drank any poison ? it all goes together

 

[ezra]

The scripture says our power is based on His favor!

not what i asked

 

[iLOVE]

so are you saying i am not accepted ? curious was you baptized in jesus nae or the father son Holy Ghost ? have you handled serpents drank any poison ? it all goes together

Those are "The Holy Spirit" words from the scripture. Not iLove words.

 

[iLOVE]

not what i asked

Again, it is based on His favor. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Not by my might.

 

[iLOVE]

so are you saying i am not accepted ? curious was you baptized in jesus nae or the father son Holy Ghost ? have you handled serpents drank any poison ? it all goes together

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’

and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”b]"

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”c]' Mark 4

 

[Obadiah]

Ok. So a symptom of needing to back away and regroup is moderator intervention on comments.

So far looking at this conversation, iLOVE posted a thought that I assume is thought provoking to her. Being a person who speaks in tongues, and prays in tongues, her thought is, what happens when you don't. With the exception of Reba, I don't think many of us have experience with speaking in tongues, so we can't really go on the aspect of what it's like to pray in tongues. But we can give our answers from our experiences in prayer. Chances are they will be different from eachother because prayer is a very personal thing. I doubt it's the same with anyone. But God's relationships with us are all very indivual and personalistic. If I'm right we shouldn't expect them to be the same. At least that's something we can do to answer this question.

To iLOVE, and Reba, if you gals have prayed in tongues, can you describe what it's like?

I have prayed in tongues and do it often, so by your requirements I too am able to speak on the subject from personal experience. The reason I seldom (never, really) talk about it is because this is something that is private between myself and God and is no business of other people. (One thing I should explain, I "pray" in tongues, which is different than speaking in public in tongues. Although I have that ability, that requires another person present to have the gift of interpretation. I have never felt the Spirit lead me to speak publicly, which includes never being lead to "pray" aloud publicly.) My reason for normally not talking about it is because of the unbiblical attitude of so many Christians that put the gift of tongues on such a high pedestal even to the unbiblical point of inferring those who do not pray in tongues are not truly Christians (or not "accepted" by God). I do not like to place myself on that high pedestal beside those false teachers who teach this unbiblical doctrine.

So as for this question of "praying in the Spirit", we have a person insisting "praying in the Spirit" requires praying in tongues and that, in fact, if it is not done in tongues, it is not praying in the Spirit. I and others have challenged this with scripture and asked for this person to support his/her claim with scripture. Yet the person is unable to provide any scripture to support that praying in the spirit specifically means praying in tongues, and has been unable to provide any alternate explanation of the refuting scriptures that I and others have provided showing he/she is wrong. I have suggested that while tongues can be used in praying in the Spirit, that it is not required. Yet I was flat out told twice that it is required with not one word of scripture to back this claim even after I and others have asked for it repeatedly.

At this point I must in all good conscience state that based on the word of God which I and others have provided, and on the lack of any reasonable alternate interpretations given nor any scripture provided by the person stating tongues are required, that this is a false doctrine a member is insisting on teaching here and should not be followed.

 

[ezra]

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’

and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”b]"

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”c]' Mark 4

indoctrinated very much so . however i did notice you never answered the question have you or would you drink poison or would you be willing to pick up a rattlesnake and hold it allowing it free range ? if i am not accepted then until you do these thing you might not be either . here is my point you believe whole heartedly in tongues and it is Bible . but what about the poison the serpent (snake }

 

[ezra]

I have prayed in tongues and do it often, so by your requirements I too am able to speak on the subject from personal experience. The reason I seldom (never, really) talk about it is because this is something that is private between myself and God and is no business of other people.

yes i would agree with that %100 :amen

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:



@Not_Now.Soon The Scripture says it clearly .... a story from my life may give you the understanding from my point of view..
MY 2 grandmothers.
both would pray in tongues
both loved the Lord
one bragged about tongues how with out tongues others were not saved ( pretty strong huh)
the other used tongues to pray for others
she prayed in her prayer closet..

one was grumpy, rude and generally not kind
the other was a sweetheart of a woman

Thanks for sharing those experiences and bible verses Reba.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I have prayed in tongues and do it often, so by your requirements I too am able to speak on the subject from personal experience. The reason I seldom (never, really) talk about it is because this is something that is private between myself and God and is no business of other people. (One thing I should explain, I "pray" in tongues, which is different than speaking in public in tongues. Although I have that ability, that requires another person present to have the gift of interpretation. I have never felt the Spirit lead me to speak publicly, which includes never being lead to "pray" aloud publicly.) My reason for normally not talking about it is because of the unbiblical attitude of so many Christians that put the gift of tongues on such a high pedestal even to the unbiblical point of inferring those who do not pray in tongues are not truly Christians (or not "accepted" by God). I do not like to place myself on that high pedestal beside those false teachers who teach this unbiblical doctrine.

So as for this question of "praying in the Spirit", we have a person insisting "praying in the Spirit" requires praying in tongues and that, in fact, if it is not done in tongues, it is not praying in the Spirit. I and others have challenged this with scripture and asked for this person to support his/her claim with scripture. Yet the person is unable to provide any scripture to support that praying in the spirit specifically means praying in tongues, and has been unable to provide any alternate explanation of the refuting scriptures that I and others have provided showing he/she is wrong. I have suggested that while tongues can be used in praying in the Spirit, that it is not required. Yet I was flat out told twice that it is required with not one word of scripture to back this claim even after I and others have asked for it repeatedly.

At this point I must in all good conscience state that based on the word of God which I and others have provided, and on the lack of any reasonable alternate interpretations given nor any scripture provided by the person stating tongues are required, that this is a false doctrine a member is insisting on teaching here and should not be followed.

I think you have the right attitude, with both both prayer and prayer with tongues, (as well as speaking in tongues). We shouldn't pray publicly like the religous leaders did, just to show off and get recogination, and it's a very personal thing between the person and God, when they pray. So I'm sorry for my request.

The reason I had it though was for the direction of this conversation. From what I can see, iLOVE is alone on her position, with several other voices contending that it's a wrong position to have. In any sitution like that it's very easy for the path of the conversation to follow a defensive kind of journey. One person might not be wrong, but still can't debate effectively against several fronts, and to several other people. And even if that one person is in the wrong, it's sometimes very hard to see that because, the enviornment has a feeling of being picked on, or just over all picked over.

I was trying to bring another route into the conversation. By what we understand our heads are clashing and no more movement is being made either way, but perhaps by our experiences there might be another way to reach what we were trying to say and trying to defend. Perhaps even reach each other.

It was a thought, but I'm not sure how to go into it without really going into details of prayers in general, which are a privite matter.

 

[Obadiah]

I think you have the right attitude, with both both prayer and prayer with tongues, (as well as speaking in tongues). We shouldn't pray publicly like the religous leaders did, just to show off and get recogination, and it's a very personal thing between the person and God, when they pray. So I'm sorry for my request.

The reason I had it though was for the direction of this conversation. From what I can see, iLOVE is alone on her position, with several other voices contending that it's a wrong position to have. In any sitution like that it's very easy for the path of the conversation to follow a defensive kind of journey. One person might not be wrong, but still can't debate effectively against several fronts, and to several other people. And even if that one person is in the wrong, it's sometimes very hard to see that because, the enviornment has a feeling of being picked on, or just over all picked over.

I was trying to bring another route into the conversation. By what we understand our heads are clashing and no more movement is being made either way, but perhaps by our experiences there might be another way to reach what we were trying to say and trying to defend. Perhaps even reach each other.

It was a thought, but I'm not sure how to go into it without really going into details of prayers in general, which are a privite matter.

I think you are right in your reasoning and don't think you should be sorry for your question. But members have asked several times for backing of her position from scripture and she has not only failed to do so, but has sidestepped many of the questions altogether by throwing up a smoke screen of accusations, out of context scripture, and out of context answers that don't answer the questions. (i.e. quoting "If you do not accept this, you will not be accepted.") When this happens it is the responsibility of those who see this as false teaching based on scripture to point that out. Remember, this is a public forum and there are many people reading this that we don't even know about, many who aren't even members but may have found this thread through a simple Google search for some phrase that happens to be in one of our posts. Those people deserve to be informed that this is false teaching, unless, of course, the person teaching it can show us otherwise. But that "showing us" has to come from properly interpreted, in context scripture, not silence or smokescreens.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

iLOVE, this is for you, so please don't take it the wrong way. I'm going to reply with the context said later that you mean praying in tongues is praying in spirit.

"What Happens When You Don't Pray in the Spirit?"

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Ephesians 6:18

When I've prayed it was in a language I know. It was not in tongues. But through those experiences here are a few things that have happened.

Several times the prayer was answered and the request asked for was given. Some of the times the prayer was joyful praise, and thanks to God. From that sometimes there was even more joy in me. An emotion I associate as a response from God. Other times a prayer had a request, but the prayer was clouded in sadness, because of how I was feeling, and those times God did a great service of providing comfort to me through the prayer, even before being done saying it. Sometimes I pray with an intent for someone else. Never knowing what will happen for them, or being able to follow up and find out, because it was for a stranger I'd see passing by as I go throughout the day. On those I don't know what happens, but I am happy to pray anyways because I'm confidant from how God has responded with other prayers.

These are my best answers for what happens when I haven't prayed in tongues. But without going into too much detail about any of them.

 

[Obadiah]

iLOVE, this is for you, so please don't take it the wrong way. I'm going to reply with the context said later that you mean praying in tongues is praying in spirit.

"What Happens When You Don't Pray in the Spirit?"



When I've prayed it was in a language I know. It was not in tongues. But through those experiences here are a few things that have happened.

Several times the prayer was answered and the request asked for was given. Some of the times the prayer was joyful praise, and thanks to God. From that sometimes there was even more joy in me. An emotion I associate as a response from God. Other times a prayer had a request, but the prayer was clouded in sadness, because of how I was feeling, and those times God did a great service of providing comfort to me through the prayer, even before being done saying it. Sometimes I pray with an intent for someone else. Never knowing what will happen for them, or being able to follow up and find out, because it was for a stranger I'd see passing by as I go throughout the day. On those I don't know what happens, but I am happy to pray anyways because I'm confidant from how God has responded with other prayers.

These are my best answers for what happens when I haven't prayed in tongues. But without going into too much detail about any of them.

Even though I have the gift of tongues (now that I've already said that here), my experiences have been very similar to this and have resulted in several of those "signs and wonders" that scripture talks about even though I hadn't prayed in tongues at most of those times. So either praying in tongues is not required when "praying in the Spirit", or those signs and wonders I've witnessed came from a "different" spirit. For me to admit or claim in any way that they may have come from a different spirit would be blasphemy, so I won't do that.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I think you are right in your reasoning and don't think you should be sorry for your question. But members have asked several times for backing of her position from scripture and she has not only failed to do so, but has sidestepped many of the questions altogether by throwing up a smoke screen of accusations, out of context scripture, and out of context answers that don't answer the questions. (i.e. quoting "If you do not accept this, you will not be accepted.") When this happens it is the responsibility of those who see this as false teaching based on scripture to point that out. Remember, this is a public forum and there are many people reading this that we don't even know about, many who aren't even members but may have found this thread through a simple Google search for some phrase that happens to be in one of our posts. Those people deserve to be informed that this is false teaching, unless, of course, the person teaching it can show us otherwise. But that "showing us" has to come from properly interpreted, in context scripture, not silence or smokescreens.

For the benifit of anyone reading these conversations, the counterpoints have been made, and haven't been justified against by anyone who holds the position that praying in spirit means praying in tongues. I think that has been accomplished for the benifit of those reading this. For the benifit of iLOVE though, maybe we should try and let her regroup, or help her regroup.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Even though I have the gift of tongues (now that I've already said that here), my experiences have been very similar to this and have resulted in several of those "signs and wonders" that scripture talks about even though I hadn't prayed in tongues at most of those times. So either praying in tongues is not required when "praying in the Spirit", or those signs and wonders I've witnessed came from a "different" spirit. For me to admit or claim in any way that they may have come from a different spirit would be blasphemy, so I won't do that.

Thanks Obadiah.

 

[Obadiah]

For the benifit of anyone reading these conversations, the counterpoints have been made, and haven't been justified against by anyone who holds the position that praying in spirit means praying in tongues. I think that has been accomplished for the benifit of those reading this. For the benifit of iLOVE though, maybe we should try and let her regroup, or help her regroup.

Sure, I'll wait for her to regroup and appreciate and support your patience. Although I'm not inclined to help someone regroup to teach false doctrine. If someone in a group of Christians says something unscriptural and refuses to back it with scripture it's not unreasonable to expect a large number of those Christians to chime in with correction. But really, at this point there's not much more for me to say anyway. I'll gladly wait for some reasonable scriptural explanation of why this idea that praying in the Spirit requires praying in tongues is right. If this is right and someone can show that from scripture, I will accept it. Since I've already stated I have the gift of praying in tongues, why should accepting it be a problem for me if it's shown to be scriptural?

 

[reba]

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’

and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”b]"

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”c]' Mark 4

Exactly so answer the question ... You are not the Lord... so tell me when you speak to all hear you in their own tongue.

Just like in Act
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
We need to be careful when we hand out ultimatums not seen in Scripture..
The questions are still unanswered @iLOVE
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And which languages do you speak ? have you ever been hurt? are there any sick in your area or family? Been handling snakes? Drinking any poison? Cast out any demons?
Tongues is easy to fake .. ever pray for some one that did not recover?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Sure, I'll wait for her to regroup and appreciate and support your patience. Although I'm not inclined to help someone regroup to teach false doctrine. If someone in a group of Christians says something unscriptural and refuses to back it with scripture it's not unreasonable to expect a large number of those Christians to chime in with correction. But really, at this point there's not much more for me to say anyway. I'll gladly wait for some reasonable scriptural explanation of why this idea that praying in the Spirit requires praying in tongues is right. If this is right and someone can show that from scripture, I will accept it. Since I've already stated I have the gift of praying in tongues, why should accepting it be a problem for me if it's shown to be scriptural?

Thanks. About the aspect of helping another regroup though. Here's something I've found. Once in school, I took a course on logic. Not math logic, but a philosophy course on logic. To fill a required type of class the other option was ethics, but that's besides the point. While in it though the teacher was talking about different logical fallacies, things to avoid in our own writing and things to watch out for in another's. You mentioned smoke screening as a critism so I'm sure your aware of different logical approaches and fallacies. However the teacher taught about weak man's argument, also known as straw man's argument. Saying that this is an approach to weaken another's points and not take them full on, but just take partial parts, or present them in an out of context sitution with only half the merit to their points. During this lecture the teacher made the point that doing this, weakens the person making the fallacy, because their argument wasn't able to stand up to the other's perspective at it's full strength. The teacher said to strive to instead build up the other's perspective. Make it as strong as it can be. Hypothetical situtions, benefits of the doubt, or fuller understanding of the perspective, if they didn't say it with as much understanding of it and you do. How ever you do make it as strong as you possibly can, then when you show it's still not right, that perspective has had it's chance, and your perspective is all the stronger for it.

That's great for logic and debate environments. But here's were I've found it intreasting when used in real life. When you try to engage a person with helpful ways, such as asking them to clairify what they mean, and confirming you understand it by your own words rephrasing or examples you can give, and even to try and further the points too, I've found that they clairify their points and sometimes it challenges them more because their more engaged with it, and hopefully will accept challenges to it because the other person understands the perspective and still have a critism to challenge it. It's also been a means to challenge myself and possibly help spot my own weak points in my own perspectives.

In general, many times a person can do this and both sides of the parties come out the better for it. But in the case of iLOVE's perspective. There's a limit to being able to strengthen the perspective, because of a limit to the experience she is talking about. All I can do is give the challenges I see and give her time to regroup. I can't actually help her in that aspect of regrouping. Anyone who can runs the risk of strengthening her perspective, but it might also help her in seeing the errors of it, if they are there.

 

[iLOVE]

Thanks. About the aspect of helping another regroup though. Here's something I've found. Once in school, I took a course on logic. Not math logic, but a philosophy course on logic. To fill a required type of class the other option was ethics, but that's besides the point. While in it though the teacher was talking about different logical fallacies, things to avoid in our own writing and things to watch out for in another's. You mentioned smoke screening as a critism so I'm sure your aware of different logical approaches and fallacies. However the teacher taught about weak man's argument, also known as straw man's argument. Saying that this is an approach to weaken another's points and not take them full on, but just take partial parts, or present them in an out of context sitution with only half the merit to their points. During this lecture the teacher made the point that doing this, weakens the person making the fallacy, because their argument wasn't able to stand up to the other's perspective at it's full strength. The teacher said to strive to instead build up the other's perspective. Make it as strong as it can be. Hypothetical situtions, benefits of the doubt, or fuller understanding of the perspective, if they didn't say it with as much understanding of it and you do. How ever you do make it as strong as you possibly can, then when you show it's still not right, that perspective has had it's chance, and your perspective is all the stronger for it.

That's great for logic and debate environments. But here's were I've found it intreasting when used in real life. When you try to engage a person with helpful ways, such as asking them to clairify what they mean, and confirming you understand it by your own words rephrasing or examples you can give, and even to try and further the points too, I've found that they clairify their points and sometimes it challenges them more because their more engaged with it, and hopefully will accept challenges to it because the other person understands the perspective and still have a critism to challenge it. It's also been a means to challenge myself and possibly help spot my own weak points in my own perspectives.

In general, many times a person can do this and both sides of the parties come out the better for it. But in the case of iLOVE's perspective. There's a limit to being able to strengthen the perspective, because of a limit to the experience she is talking about. All I can do is give the challenges I see and give her time to regroup. I can't actually help her in that aspect of regrouping. Anyone who can runs the risk of strengthening her perspective, but it might also help her in seeing the errors of it, if they are there.

I am not a female.