Gary
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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What I don't likes about the Word of Faith Movement
- Thread starter Jethro Bodine
- Start date
J
junkyardmystic
Guest
Thanks jethro.
I have also seen these things in my experiences in Word of Faith churches.I started out in the Word of Faith movement. I am truly thankful for lots of things I learned in it that I'm confident I would not have learned had I started out in some other movement. The experience was invaluable. But there are things that bother me about the movement (in completely random order as they come to mind):
1. Godliness is understood to be a means to riches.
2. Tongues is improperly elevated above the other gifts.
3. Teaching in character in regard to the fruit of the Spirit is terribly lacking, apparently because it's not as important or valued as spiritual gifts.
4. Those who perceive themselves as spiritually gifted condescend to those who aren't
5. A lack of compassion for those who are perceived as having less faith.
6. Tongues is regarded as a sign of spiritual knowledge and wisdom.
7. The teaching that faith demands where God has not specifically spoken.
8. Character is not regarded as the measure of spiritual maturity, spiritual gifts are.
Remember, these are generalities. If your Word of Faith church is different, good.
Share your thoughts.
They get into you and you wonder if it is true.
For many, you have to study and learn that they are not true.
For most, they don't study and just accept it as true.
How to make a comment with a good inner leading? How do I get my carnal reminants subdued? Without writing 20 books, the previous statement / statements would be rejected by WOF.
The short book of Titus makes some interesting statements about leadership. The standards for the highest levels are different / higher, than the lower leadership level. By extension, the congregation would have levels of being weak, strong, single, married, poor, rich, Jew, Gentile, young, old, widowed, etc., that need to be leveled out with compassion. Making the one new man may be a full time effort. If you only want to teach about the highest offices the rest are abandoned. Sometimes WOF can not fit all these levels into the program, and neither can other groups at times.
Without having been on the edge of WOF there would be no way for me to comment. I went through faith in faith. Faith in faith will not work very well. Faith in Christ Jesus does work. Rejoicing in spiritual gifts is secondary to rejoicing in names being written in the Lamb's Book of Life (I sure did not want to learn this). Are spiritual gifts needed? Yes. Are all folks wanting to live on the Canan side of Jordan? No.
We need everyone to work through the many issues the Body of Christ faces.
Some churches have good areas and bad areas. Some denominations / non-denominations / web churches face the same issues.
Whosoever will may come, but will you be able to handle those who come? Why no. He works in us to will and do of his good pleasure. He works through us.
eddif
The short book of Titus makes some interesting statements about leadership. The standards for the highest levels are different / higher, than the lower leadership level. By extension, the congregation would have levels of being weak, strong, single, married, poor, rich, Jew, Gentile, young, old, widowed, etc., that need to be leveled out with compassion. Making the one new man may be a full time effort. If you only want to teach about the highest offices the rest are abandoned. Sometimes WOF can not fit all these levels into the program, and neither can other groups at times.
Without having been on the edge of WOF there would be no way for me to comment. I went through faith in faith. Faith in faith will not work very well. Faith in Christ Jesus does work. Rejoicing in spiritual gifts is secondary to rejoicing in names being written in the Lamb's Book of Life (I sure did not want to learn this). Are spiritual gifts needed? Yes. Are all folks wanting to live on the Canan side of Jordan? No.
We need everyone to work through the many issues the Body of Christ faces.
Some churches have good areas and bad areas. Some denominations / non-denominations / web churches face the same issues.
Whosoever will may come, but will you be able to handle those who come? Why no. He works in us to will and do of his good pleasure. He works through us.
eddif
th1b.taylor
Member
Hi Gary, good day sir.
This is true and any saved man or woman that studies, on a regular basis, comes to know this first hand. Before I fell to the MS I tried and oft seceded in my daily Read Through Yearly Study and I would read this or that passage and the Life Application the Holly Spirit would teach me was and is often to this day, different.
Read that paragraph once more please and meditate on it for a minute, those words are true and are possibly the most dangerous truth in our world. I will add what most people teaching this truth refuse to add. The newest truth or truths will never replace nor will they do any more than to expand and/or to compliment what has already been learned.
This, added, extension severely ll imits the influence of man and Satan on the Saved Man's life and mind. i.e. So when famous people of the WoF Movement teach you can demand a new Mercedes and God "must" give it to you, they are lying, right there on your TV, in your living room.
However, if you ask anything of God He will give it to you, and this kicker is always there, if it is in His will for it to happen.
Gary
Member
Well then, perhaps you can give me the multiple meanings or levels of truth to this verse.
Hebrews 13
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Thanks.
.
Just use His name alone Gary. When you first read Jesus Christ. what did you think? The Son of God, right?Well then, perhaps you can give me the multiple meanings or levels of truth to this verse.
Hebrews 13
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Thanks.
.
With further study, we understand that His name is the hypostatic union of the unique God man, Jesus Christ.
Jesus~~100% humanity
Christ ~~undiminished deity
He is immutable, completely dependable. never changing.
People that think they can lose their salvation, have not reached one of the "levels" of truth in this verse.
Gary
Member
Can you provide the multiple meanings or levels to that verse from Hebrews?
Faith in God.
Hebrews 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by hisSon, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Jesus slain from the foundation of the world foretold his nature in creation as slain (natural pacemaker, lifeless beat up moon that controls earths tides, etc.).
Jesus remained a sacrifice in law sacrifices
Jesus remained messiah through his death
Jesus interceedes now for us
Jesus will always remain ruler
Jesus spoke from eternity past; through time; to eternity future. Our redeemer always.
If this ain't it, well .......
eddif
Hebrews 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by hisSon, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Jesus slain from the foundation of the world foretold his nature in creation as slain (natural pacemaker, lifeless beat up moon that controls earths tides, etc.).
Jesus remained a sacrifice in law sacrifices
Jesus remained messiah through his death
Jesus interceedes now for us
Jesus will always remain ruler
Jesus spoke from eternity past; through time; to eternity future. Our redeemer always.
If this ain't it, well .......
eddif
In my opinion it would be better to use a different verse. Because not all verses have a deeper meaning. And a lot of it is that some people have been teaching particular passages of scripture on a level of their own understanding, or even a basic level of understanding. A lot of people are happy with that, but when someone is going through something, or they are just really studying and meditating on a particular passage, then as they meditate, it becomes deeper rooted in them and then the Holy Spirit can reveal a deeper meaning.
Try 1 Peter 5:12b "my purpose in writing is to encourage you and assure you that what you are experiencing is truly part of God's grace for you. Stand firm in this grace".
At first glance at this most people would just get encouraged thinking that peter is encouraging the people to whom he is writing. But as one meditates on this verse and grabs an understanding of what grace means, the verse takes on a deeper meaning. God showed me that He loves me so much that sometimes the things that i do not want to submit to, are the things that i need to submit to because they will bring about change in my life. So even though it's hard to change, it eill be good for me if i can get my natural ways or learned ways, to submit to what God's ways are. Thus being a part of God's grace for me. Now grace is God's bestowing unmerrited favor onto my life, or i like to say....God's overwhelming desire to treat you and me as if sin never happened. And how do i stand in grace? Well i understand that God loves me and, if i can grasp ahold of how much He loves me then, i will be able to see that He does not count my past sins against me. He is not up in Heaven waiting to throw a lightning bolt at me if i mess up. He is there waiting for me to run to Him when i goof and then He can cleanse me of unrighteousness, thus restoring my right standing with Him, because of Jesus' Blood that is the only thing that gave me right standing in the first place.
Does this help?
Blessings brother Gary! May the Lord pour into you much wisdom. Giving you eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart and mind that understands. God loves you!
Gary
Member
The comment was made that every verse has multiple meanings. Besides the obvious, I want to see the other meanings to that verse from Hebrews.
I understand what you're saying about deeper meanings and such. I've experienced that many times. What I haven't experienced is running across verses that hold multiple interpretations.
Or maybe I have and just didn't see it.
.
Fish Catcher Jim
Member
The comment was made that every verse has multiple meanings. Besides the obvious, I want to see the other meanings to that verse from Hebrews.
I understand what you're saying about deeper meanings and such. I've experienced that many times. What I haven't experienced is running across verses that hold multiple interpretations.
Or maybe I have and just didn't see it.
.
Levels of revelational knowledge....Different levels of understanding such as a higher level.
Fish Catcher Jim
Member
The comment was made that every verse has multiple meanings. Besides the obvious, I want to see the other meanings to that verse from Hebrews.
I understand what you're saying about deeper meanings and such. I've experienced that many times. What I haven't experienced is running across verses that hold multiple interpretations.
Or maybe I have and just didn't see it.
.
toe mate toes to mot tows poe tay toes po tot tows......Same meanings Gary.....
Gary
Member
An individual or group revelation doesn't alter the Word of God. Verses don't have multiple meanings. If someone reads a verse and suddenly sees it in a different light, all that means is they gained some understanding. Understanding that wasn't there before. The Lord opened their eyes and allowed them to see the truth.
The meaning of the verse doesn't change, but the perception of the reader does.
He is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow.
.
Fish Catcher Jim
Member
Everything you just said means the very same thing...:yes did you do that on purpose ?
Gary
Member
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
The parable of the sower.
Use post 30 to help.
Isaiah 6 why parables
Matthew 13 why parables (multitudes only got parable and not explanation). Alone with Jesus, the disciples heard the explanation of the parable / parables. Multi level: physical to multitudes; spiritual to disciples alone
Mark 4 helps with a little new information.
From the foundation of the earth the sower was Jesus (hidden). From the foundation of the earth the seed was the Word of God ( hidden, but the word that would become flesh). From creation seeds showed the word of God could become more than it was.
More about Jesus:
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus died and placed in the earth he brought forth many disciples (through Holy Spirit).
When you add tares the knowledge of Jesus changes. When you add watering the knowledge of Jesus changes. When you speak of soil depth (weathered rock - broken stony heart that supports life).
From creation the symbols continue:
Genesis 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
The symbols are temporal, but to mans view they are time eternal (just time is not eternal).
This can go on and on. The whole world can be filled with books; as the differing viewpoints of Jesus are written about.
Who was asking for this?
eddif
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
The parable of the sower.
Use post 30 to help.
Isaiah 6 why parables
Matthew 13 why parables (multitudes only got parable and not explanation). Alone with Jesus, the disciples heard the explanation of the parable / parables. Multi level: physical to multitudes; spiritual to disciples alone
Mark 4 helps with a little new information.
From the foundation of the earth the sower was Jesus (hidden). From the foundation of the earth the seed was the Word of God ( hidden, but the word that would become flesh). From creation seeds showed the word of God could become more than it was.
More about Jesus:
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus died and placed in the earth he brought forth many disciples (through Holy Spirit).
When you add tares the knowledge of Jesus changes. When you add watering the knowledge of Jesus changes. When you speak of soil depth (weathered rock - broken stony heart that supports life).
From creation the symbols continue:
Genesis 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
The symbols are temporal, but to mans view they are time eternal (just time is not eternal).
This can go on and on. The whole world can be filled with books; as the differing viewpoints of Jesus are written about.
Who was asking for this?
eddif
Gary
Member