Please stop making excuses, and show us a parable from Jesus whereby He used literal names and places?
JLB
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What is a man?
- Thread starter Butch5
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Please stop making excuses, and show us a parable from Jesus whereby He used literal names and places?
JLB
It’s amazing how you just label whatever teaching you don’t like from Jesus as a “parable” right n the middle of Him teaching the Pharisees who were lovers of money, literal truth, using literal names and literal places, but you dismiss as imaginary.
JLB
Butch5
Member
The passage says nothing about the righteous or the unrighteous. You're imposing that on the text. If this was about the righteous and the unrighteous what would Abraham have to do with that? However, there is something in the parable that we do see. Lazarus was poor and the rich man was rich. Do you believe that the criteria for being saved is being poor? Does being poor make one righteous? Does being rich make one unrighteous? While the passage doesn't speak of righteous and unrighteous, it does speak of rich and poor.
I didn't rejected everything you've given. I showed why what you all have claimed is wrong.
I notice that you didn't even address what I said about the dead. I'm sure you know that dead people can't speak. As I said, those who hold your doctrine have no proof. It's based solely on your understanding of a few passages of Scripture. If you're wrong about that you have no evidence whatsoever. On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that dead people can't speak. There have been millions of people who have died and never again spoke.
You’ve given no evidence at all. Zero.
Just your opinion.
Please give us an example of a parable from Jesus using literal names and places.
JLB
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Matthew 17:1-3
Next Question.
Case closed.
JLB
Butch5
Member
Interesting since you said Jesus speaking to the multitude in parables had nothing to do with Lazarus and the rich man because it was in another book.
Are these words literal?
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. (Matt. 13:16-17 KJV)
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Butch5
Member
I've already told your statement is abitrary.
Arbitrary:
subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion:
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
www.dictionary.com
Just because it's the only parable with names doesn't mean it's an actual event.
An arbitrary statement:
An arbitrary statement is a statement without reason or justification. It is unsupported by any facts or reasons.
Epistemology_Arbitrary.html
The arbitrary is neither true nor false. It should be ignored.
importanceofphilosophy.com
Because I said so, isn't proof.
Makes no sense Butch.
There is nothing you can say that is going to change the words of Jesus Christ.
You asked me to show you dead people who speak.
I did.
Now you want to come up with something else.
I have proved my point.
Believe what you like.
JLB
I've already told your statement is abitrary.
Arbitrary:
subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion:
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
Just because it's the only parable with names doesn't mean it's an actual event.
An arbitrary statement:
An arbitrary statement is a statement without reason or justification. It is unsupported by any facts or reasons.
Epistemology_Arbitrary.html
The arbitrary is neither true nor false. It should be ignored.importanceofphilosophy.com
Because I said so, isn't proof.
We showed you those who have died in heaven and you wanted proof it was real. Abraham is the Father of the righteous by faith. The other man was in torment. Righteous and unrighteous. I am one with Christ in Spirit a new creation. I live by Him and never die. I showed you that the advocate is given forever. I showed you that Jesus was "alive" in the Spirit. It means not dead. You can not be convinced. I showed you where Paul stated when are bodies are destroyed we will be with the Lord in heaven. You even wrote off the man on the cross being with the lord in paradise that day.
As I stated you are free to believe as you believe. No one seems to be able to convince you otherwise.
1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
Matthew 17:1-4 NKJV
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”
17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days.
41 Then they took away the stone [d]from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.”
43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”
44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”
1 Then, six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was who had been dead, whom He had raised from the dead.
2 There they made Him a supper; and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those who sat at the table with Him.
John 11:14-15, 17, 41-44, 12:1-2 NKJV
Butch5
Member
And I showed how people are misunderstanding those passages. You didn't present any evidence as to why "your understanding" of those passages is correct. You mentioned Lazarus and the Rich Man as being alive. I say there weren't, that it was a parable. What evidence do you have to support what you claim? You have "your understanding" of that passage. What evidence is there for my claim? Millions of dead people who can't speak. My claim has real world evidence. You have "your inderstanding" of a parable. The evidence for your claim is subjective. The evidence for my claim objective.
As I said before, if you're misunderstanding those passages there is no evidence whatsoever for your claim. If you're misunderstanding those passages the you believe something that is wholly untrue.
You have been shown that people who have physically died, do indeed speak.
Can you prove they don’t?
Jesus said Abraham spoke.
Jesus said the rich man spoke.
The Bible says Moses spoke.
The Bible says Elijah spoke.
The Bible says that a great multitude of people who have come out of the great tribulation sing to God.
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Revelation 7:9-10
It seems all you have is denial; denial of the truth.
JLB
Butch5
Member
I haven't been shown that physically dead people can speak. All I've been show is a passage of Scriputre and then given someone's "understanding" of it. However, we know that that inderstanding is incorrect because dead people can't.
All you're proving to me is that you misunderstand the passage.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You said the body dies and the spirit goes back to be with God from where it came.
What is the spirit?
Does IT talk?
Can it think?
Do we just disappear after death?
Back later....
Butch5
Member
The spirit is God
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
If the spirit is God,,,,which you say He breathed into man to make man come alive...
Then does this mean that the unsaved person also has the spirit in him -- which is God?