[_ Old Earth _] What Is Consciousness?

[Doulos Iesou]

The simple understanding is awareness and being awake. Consciousness then becomes tricky when we dive into how we are able to have this fluid experience. There is just too much we don't know for me to speak confidently on the matter.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The simple understanding is awareness and being awake. Consciousness then becomes tricky when we dive into how we are able to have this fluid experience. There is just too much we don't know for me to speak confidently on the matter.

Yes, it seems we can't explain how and why we are conscious.
Consciousness and breathing are directly related.
We dream while we are asleep.
That's consciousness.
It's said one in a coma is conscious.
It seems that as long as we are breathing, then we are conscious?

God gives us the breath of life.
Praise the Lord!

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Yes, it seems we can't explain how and why we are conscious.
Consciousness and breathing are directly related.

I don't really agree with that. An unconscious person still breathes. Breathing has to do with living.

We dream while we are asleep.
That's consciousness.

Some would contend that lucid dreaming is consciousness, but I'm not sure I agree with that. While still others say that consciousness is like dreaming, except our subconsciousness doesn't completely control our sensory input.

It's said one in a coma is conscious.
It seems that as long as we are breathing, then we are conscious?

By definition then that's not a coma, they have been misdiagnosed. A coma is a period of more than six hours of unconsciousness from which a person cannot be awakened.

God gives us the breath of life.
Praise the Lord!

I don't think I see consciousness explained in that text. Perhaps you read it as a person gaining the ability of sentience?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't really agree with that. An unconscious person still breathes. Breathing has to do with living.


Some would contend that lucid dreaming is consciousness, but I'm not sure I agree with that. While still others say that consciousness is like dreaming, except our subconsciousness doesn't completely control our sensory input.


By definition then that's not a coma, they have been misdiagnosed. A coma is a period of more than six hours of unconsciousness from which a person cannot be awakened.


I don't think I see consciousness explained in that text. Perhaps you read it as a person gaining the ability of sentience?

Thank you for helping me to build up my vocabulary.
And thank you for your alternative viewpoint.
It is appreciated.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Speaking of consciousness and lucid dreaming, that's another neat thing. Once in awhile I have lucid dreams, obviously the kind just before waking up that one can control. One of my neatest dreams lately was I decided to just jump off the ground and fly into space toward the sun. People were hollering below me, "What's he doing flying toward the sun?" I headed straight for it, and then steered around it as the passed to my left. I then remember heading toward Orion. I won't get into the details there, but the next day my star app on my phone showed Orion to the right of the sun when it was rising.

A few nights later, I dreamed of Orion again, but it involved making a map, and I remember a poltergeist hindering me.

I don't want to divert the subject too far, but I guess the point is that I had some (sub)consciousness as to where the constellation was, and some prescient idea involving that constellation. So this opens up another facet of the consciousness idea.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Speaking of consciousness and lucid dreaming, that's another neat thing. Once in awhile I have lucid dreams, obviously the kind just before waking up that one can control. One of my neatest dreams lately was I decided to just jump off the ground and fly into space toward the sun. People were hollering below me, "What's he doing flying toward the sun?" I headed straight for it, and then steered around it as the passed to my left. I then remember heading toward Orion. I won't get into the details there, but the next day my star app on my phone showed Orion to the right of the sun when it was rising.

A few nights later, I dreamed of Orion again, but it involved making a map, and I remember a poltergeist hindering me.

I don't want to divert the subject too far, but I guess the point is that I had some (sub)consciousness as to where the constellation was, and some prescient idea involving that constellation. So this opens up another facet of the consciousness idea.

Good stuff Tim.
How fast were you traveling?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Good stuff Tim.
How fast were you traveling?

Relativistic speeds, which was why I could not figure in the dream why I could not see a blue-shift or distorted shapes. But at that speed in reality it is easy to manuver around the sun. The gravity is not strong enough.

I also remember the constellation no longer looked like Orion after I was out there, and I actually panned around it. I remember that I was concerned getting back because after about 60 light years the sun is no longer visible and I was beyond that.

Now as for the subject of Orion itself, googling dreams about it yields some very weird stuff, but nothing too earth shattering happened since the many days ago I dreamed it.

 

[Edward]

Our consciousness can't be pinned down to a place in our body or brain. We know it's real because we're alive. Personally, I believe that it is our link to the spiritual realm. We're interlocked to the spirit realm. God knows our thoughts and our heart, so we're definitely interlocked. It seems as if both warring parties (God & Satan) can both introduce thoughts into our consciousness stream and we are also able to have independent thoughts.

Our thoughts make us who we are and affect our heart and mind. Conscious thoughts 'shape' our personality and the way we think.

 

[Barbarian]

a dog and other types of higher animals are aware of death, they do have feelings.

I know animals have feelings. I've spent a lifetime learning about them and their behavior. They love and fear and hate and grieve as we do. But I do not think they know death is coming for them. They are innocent, and I think God withholds that from them. I think it's significant that people who work with apes who have learned to use sign language have said that the one thing they would never do is tell them that they will someday die.

 

[Edward]

How's that go again? I am not who I think I am, I am not who you think I am, I am who I think, you think I am.

 

[WIP]

I know animals have feelings. I've spent a lifetime learning about them and their behavior. They love and fear and hate and grieve as we do. But I do not think they know death is coming for them. They are innocent, and I think God withholds that from them. I think it's significant that people who work with apes who have learned to use sign language have said that the one thing they would never do is tell them that they will someday die.

I agree. Having feelings such as love, anger, fear are not the same as a conscious self-awareness, which is something I do not believe animals have been given. This is what I think sets us apart from all other creatures on the earth.

 

[smaller]

Scientific experiments in consciousness and postulations about morphic fields, (a term deployed by the speaker):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnA8GUtXpXY
I might even observe that our consciousness changes by exposure to The Word, because the Word is in fact very much alive in ways that only our consciousness can perceive. Very often when we read the scriptures we also often unknowingly deploy our consciousness to reach out to The Speaker, The Writer, The Spirit of The Word. This is very often a parcel of being born again. We read. We instinctively reach out. We are answered. We get a response into our consciousness from The Holy Spirit, The Comforter. And are often enabled to see things from a different perspective. And we have the gauge of The written Word to guide us in our ways so as not to be led astray.

Anyone who has had a vivification of the Word experience should be somewhat familiar with the territory of the consciousness to some extent. I often use this appeal and approach to Gods Word particularly when in situations of stresses or needs or pressures, for which life seems apt at continually delivering. I have a real need to know Gods Mercies and Grace. It fills the voids in my soul and brings trust in Him and Peace from Him.

It can also be a bad reach experience if not directed properly. I've encountered some really messed up people who have flirted with paranormal engagements in a number of venues such as spiritualism, paranormal engagement attempts or eastern mysticism practices or even mind altering drugs where people will have a very real experience with evil entities, for example. Their consciousness gets altered by their attempts in not good ways, and they are often overwhelmed by a more powerful malevolent type of spirit, having opened themselves up for such influences in the arena of consciousness.

 

[Barbarian]

I agree. Having feelings such as love, anger, fear are not the same as a conscious self-awareness, which is something I do not believe animals have been given. This is what I think sets us apart from all other creatures on the earth.

Experiments show that apes and elephants have a sense of self. The experiment uses the same one that is used with very young children. You secretly put a smudge of color on their face, and let them look in a mirror. If they bring their hand to the smudge, it indicates they know that the person in the mirror is them. Apes and elephants pass this test.

Apes also have a limited awareness that others have awareness. They are capable of lying.

 

[WIP]

Interesting. Looks like I learned something new today. Do you think animals have the ability to believe in God and put their faith in Him?

 

[Barbarian]

Interesting. Looks like I learned something new today. Do you think animals have the ability to believe in God and put their faith in Him?

So far as we can determine, no animal other than humans, has an understanding of good or evil. Apes might be dimly aware of it, as a little child might be. But they are innocent as children are. Only we have been corrupted, and need salvation. It's a difficult theological question. In becoming so, we become like God. But not being truly good, we are unable to handle this knowledge, and thereby do evil. Which is what Jesus came and died for.

If anyone says he completely understands this, I think he's fooling himself.

On the other hand, I would not harm an ape unless there was a very pressing need to do so. They are capable of surprising understanding, and God must surely love them.

 

[Edward]

Speaking of consciousness and lucid dreaming, that's another neat thing. Once in awhile I have lucid dreams, obviously the kind just before waking up that one can control. One of my neatest dreams lately was I decided to just jump off the ground and fly into space toward the sun. People were hollering below me, "What's he doing flying toward the sun?" I headed straight for it, and then steered around it as the passed to my left. I then remember heading toward Orion. I won't get into the details there, but the next day my star app on my phone showed Orion to the right of the sun when it was rising.

A few nights later, I dreamed of Orion again, but it involved making a map, and I remember a poltergeist hindering me.

I don't want to divert the subject too far, but I guess the point is that I had some (sub)consciousness as to where the constellation was, and some prescient idea involving that constellation. So this opens up another facet of the consciousness idea.

That goes pretty deep. So, having no prior cognitive experience with the details of the location of the constellation...you zeroed right in on it within your consciousness stream. (It matters not whether it was a dream or not, they were conscious thoughts within your awareness.) Now that just screams a bunch of questions, lol.

Where were those thoughts, before they came into your consciousness stream? I take it that you are not an astrology enthusiast? So this was out of the blue...Ok, the blue what? Conversely, where did they go after they left your consciousness stream?

IOW, where are your thoughts, before you think them? The things I will think of tomorrow and wont think of today...where are they now? Is there a pool somewhere which feeds it? and where does it go to after you are done thinking it? Does it slip into the sub conscious? into another pool perhaps? And if so, would these pools be individual or collective?

Consciousness seems to me to be spiritual in nature. There is a spiritual energy involved, and not only that, but we know that our personal consciousness is not private! other spiritual beings which are both malevolent or benevolent may introduce thoughts into our consciousness stream.

Is there a collective unconsciousness, as has been spoken of here and there? I bet that our consciousness glows with a spiritual energy, on the other side of the veil of the spiritual realm, which we normally do not get to see. Scripture describes this everywhere, Jesus talked about it a lot. Let your light shine before men and so on. This would almost have to be linked with our consciousness...which seems nowhere to be found, lol.

 

[Edward]

So far as we can determine, no animal other than humans, has an understanding of good or evil. Apes might be dimly aware of it, as a little child might be. But they are innocent as children are. Only we have been corrupted, and need salvation. It's a difficult theological question. In becoming so, we become like God. But not being truly good, we are unable to handle this knowledge, and thereby do evil. Which is what Jesus came and died for.

If anyone says he completely understands this, I think he's fooling himself.

On the other hand, I would not harm an ape unless there was a very pressing need to do so. They are capable of surprising understanding, and God must surely love them.

What if we come to find out that all of this was just a consciousness exercise, we're not even really "here", this is an illusion to see if we would be a white light or a black light with our consciousness? What would we do with it, if given the chance to become a...sentient being, which can be trusted to live?

View attachment 5566

 

[tim-from-pa]

That goes pretty deep. So, having no prior cognitive experience with the details of the location of the constellation...you zeroed right in on it within your consciousness stream. (It matters not whether it was a dream or not, they were conscious thoughts within your awareness.) Now that just screams a bunch of questions, lol.

Where were those thoughts, before they came into your consciousness stream? I take it that you are not an astrology enthusiast? So this was out of the blue...Ok, the blue what? Conversely, where did they go after they left your consciousness stream?

IOW, where are your thoughts, before you think them? The things I will think of tomorrow and wont think of today...where are they now? Is there a pool somewhere which feeds it? and where does it go to after you are done thinking it? Does it slip into the sub conscious? into another pool perhaps? And if so, would these pools be individual or collective?

Consciousness seems to me to be spiritual in nature. There is a spiritual energy involved, and not only that, but we know that our personal consciousness is not private! other spiritual beings which are both malevolent or benevolent may introduce thoughts into our consciousness stream.

Is there a collective unconsciousness, as has been spoken of here and there? I bet that our consciousness glows with a spiritual energy, on the other side of the veil of the spiritual realm, which we normally do not get to see. Scripture describes this everywhere, Jesus talked about it a lot. Let your light shine before men and so on. This would almost have to be linked with our consciousness...which seems nowhere to be found, lol.

Goodness gracious, Edward. I was just travelling to Orion.

 

[Edward]

I got a lot out of that huh?! This sense of consciousness that we have, we will be judged on also. Scripture is clear on this. If a man can look upon a woman with lust in his heart, and is guilty of adultery then, that means if we even think about it then we are guilty. We also have the power to choose what it is we think about. Anyone can have an allegedly random weird thought or bad thought. But if we plug it in to the computer (think about it) then we receive it into ourselves, and it will affect us. He tells us all through scripture what to think about, and he expects us to do it. So He instructed us to cast bad thoughts down and (don't think about them) resist them (2 Corinthians 10:5).

This consciousness subject all comes back to Romans 12:2 I think. We are not to be conformed to this world, and not to be thinking about the things the people of the world do, and the worries and anxiousness...no. He said to be anxious for nothing. Think on these things... (Philippians 4:8)...and then continually tells us throughout scripture, do not be afraid, (which is the most oft repeated phrase in the entire bible). Ironically enough, this is one way that people show each other that they care for them, lol. I was worried about you.. is being disobedient. Peter was disobedient too!

Matthew 14:25-31
25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. (They thought it was a ghost and got scared)

27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. (See? "Don't be afraid, and he expected them to not be afraid)

28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. (Peter recognized His voice and was reassured and believing now!)

29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. (Still believing...thinking about Jesus, prolly has his eyes on Him...)

30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. (The wind kicks up and he stops believing (gets scared) and is disobedient in that Jesus had just told them to not be afraid!)

31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? (but of course Jesus saved Him, because that's how He rolls).

So in summary, we need to change the way that we think. Let the Lord transform us through our willingness to receive it and believe. We have one thing to think about. Having enough trust in Jesus to lead us. If we do this then He will keep us in perfect peace.

Isaiah 26:3
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee./

So what we allow ourselves to think about has an effect within our spirit and the spiritual realm. Be careful what you allow yourself to think about.

 

[smaller]

I got a lot out of that huh?! This sense of consciousness that we have, we will be judged on also. Scripture is clear on this. If a man can look upon a woman with lust in his heart, and is guilty of adultery then, that means if we even think about it then we are guilty.

There is no IF. We are all aptly bathed in appropriately earned guilt by evil/sin thought at the very least of measures.

We also have the power to choose what it is we think about. Anyone can have an allegedly random weird thought or bad thought. But if we plug it in to the computer (think about it) then we receive it into ourselves, and it will affect us. He tells us all through scripture what to think about, and he expects us to do it. So He instructed us to cast bad thoughts down and (don't think about them) resist them (2 Corinthians 10:5).

Indeed it is mandatory, and often continual. I find my own thoughts to be often deceptive. Quite amazingly deceptive at times and it is usually about that time that I know my conscience has been breached by the enemy without any doubt. If we understand the breach and it's source, that is, not of ourselves, the battle changes as does the strategy of the deceiver. When you see friends and family turn into enemies you know that other attack lines are being DEMONstrated. It's also about that time that believers will lean HEAVILY upon our Maker, out of dire need. I find myself in the dire need camp almost perpetually anymore as it is simply too overwhelming for me to handle. My weakness means Gods Strength.

The christian teachings on conscience and it's internal adversaries are quite unique imho.

Though I am reluctant to engage in any attempts of trance inductions I am often transported in mind by engaging with the scriptures and the reasonings that can be done personally with God about my own situations. And I do get answers as well. Sometimes not what I want to hear, but nevertheless, I hear.

So in summary, we need to change the way that we think. Let the Lord transform us through our willingness to receive it and believe. We have one thing to think about. Having enough trust in Jesus to lead us. If we do this then He will keep us in perfect peace.

Isaiah 26:3
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee./

So what we allow ourselves to think about has an effect within our spirit and the spiritual realm. Be careful what you allow yourself to think about.

I spend an inordinate amount of time contemplating just what Perfection might actually be. I really don't have a clue and really don't want to bind it with my own pale imaginations.

I do know that the God we serve is far Greater than the sum of our imaginations. And in that I find great peace.