What is 'faith alone'?

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eph 2 refers to the redemption Christ accomplished apart from us!
for by gfrace we have been saved through faith not works
titus and Jn 3:5 refers to baptism
Um no. no baptism is even mentioned.


Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river and baptized!!
I am talking about being born again

show me the word water baptism. when nicodemus asked. when did jesus say get baptized
matt 28:19 Jm 4:1 eph 4:5 gal 3:27 all (((baptism)))
water baptism? Not all
rom 4:7 sins covered
all sins are washed away in baptism acts 22:16

thks
lol..

Your as bnad as a jew trying to insist we must be circumcized.

I would suggest do not take the symbol and have faith in it. Have faith in the fulfillment of the symbol\

I was baptized into christ (not water). I was baptized into his death (not water)I was baptized into his body (not water)
 
yes, and it is Gods work that brings us to this faith, hence he gets the honor and glory. not us

Could you post the scripture that says God brings us to faith?


When we hear the Gospel we receive faith.

Then we must obey the Gospel in order to be saved?


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17


God does do the obeying for us, we must obey what we hear.

If we hear and receive faith from hearing, but don’t obey what we hear, our faith we have remains dead; dormant, inactive.

It’s the doer’s of the word that are blessed, not the hearers.


But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:22

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17
 
sounds like you think you know it all. your right and everyone else is wrong..

I just believe what God’s word says.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17

Is faith without works alive or dead?
 
Both "grace alone" and "faith alone" oppose the unbiblical, false gospel idea of justification by works.

Here is what scripture says -

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


Why would anyone call scripture unbiblical?
 
there is no baptism in john 3.

if there was jesus would have said.

Let God baptize you. No man can baptize you into christ..
the context is baptism!!!

John prepared the way by “water baptism”! Jn 1
Old Testament prefigures baptism! Jn 2 water of purification
Jesus says “water baptism” Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 right away they practice ((Jn 3:5)) and baptized Jn 3:22
Jn 4:1 baptism
apostles say “water baptism” acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 1 pet 3:20-21 God says “water baptism” ez 36:25-27
 
there is no baptism in john 3.

if there was jesus would have said.

Let God baptize you. No man can baptize you into christ..
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

how did he know about baptism?

don't they only teach the necessity of "faith alone"?

thks
 
No.

Not of works lest anyone should boast. (eph 2)

if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast (romans 4)

It is if faith so it may be by grace (romans 4)

it if is by grace, it is no longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace (romans 11)

Not by works of righteousness, but by his mercy he saved us (titus 3)

I have so many more
in Christ by grace at baptism!

baptism not a work!

you can't enter the kingdom
Jn 3:5

no DIY religion

2 per 1:11 must be administered by the church
((baptism))

The supernatural works in the Christian Life!

Living members of Christ in His new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, then we must abide in Christ by prayer, fasting, alms, mass & sacraments, and the practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ, (matt 11:29) (1 cor 13:13) abiding in Christ (Jn 15:5) keeping ourselves in the love of God, (Jude 1:21) and enduring to the end (Matt 10:22)

increase grace by good works
bear fruit!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

Supernatural Works!

Gifts of God (faith, hope, & charity) with sanctifying grace are received at baptism!
 
No.

Not of works lest anyone should boast. (eph 2)

if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast (romans 4)

It is if faith so it may be by grace (romans 4)

it if is by grace, it is no longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace (romans 11)

Not by works of righteousness, but by his mercy he saved us (titus 3)

I have so many more
"faith alone" is impossible!

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
 
No.

Not of works lest anyone should boast. (eph 2)

if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast (romans 4)

It is if faith so it may be by grace (romans 4)

it if is by grace, it is no longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace (romans 11)

Not by works of righteousness, but by his mercy he saved us (titus 3)

I have so many more
if Noah only had "faith alone" him and his family would have drowned in the flood!

he had to put faith into action and build the ark in obedience to God!

and this is a type the of new covenant ark of eternal salvation

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

thks
 
show me water baptism in john 1, John 3, John 4 John 5 and John 6
Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

accepting Christ by faith alone not enough must become sons of God by being born again in baptism
prefigured in ez 37:25-27
God's oath or sacred promise is called a sacrament the fruit (merits) of the sacrifice of Christ!

Jn 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

prepared the way for the new covenant of Christ by baptism not by preaching "faith alone"!

Jn 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

in the greek old testament they are referred to as the waters of baptismalice

Jn 3:5 water (baptism) and the spirit

Jn 3:22 baptism

Jn 4:1 & matt 28:19 making disciples by baptism

thks
 
for by gfrace we have been saved through faith not works

Um no. no baptism is even mentioned.



I am talking about being born again

show me the word water baptism. when nicodemus asked. when did jesus say get baptized

water baptism? Not all

lol..

Your as bnad as a jew trying to insist we must be circumcized.

I would suggest do not take the symbol and have faith in it. Have faith in the fulfillment of the symbol\

I was baptized into christ (not water). I was baptized into his death (not water)I was baptized into his body (not water)
the initial grace yes

water and the spirit is always the method of creation

and in baptism we are a new creation in Christ!

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise” is fulfilled in the Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration!

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized!

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!
 
Here is what scripture says -

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


Why would anyone call scripture unbiblical?
Very soon I'm going to start considering such posts as trolling. Things have been explained numerous times and yet you still are intent on presenting a straw man. There is zero reason to continue with such posts. At this point it's either willfull ignorance or trolling.
 
No.

Not of works lest anyone should boast. (eph 2)

if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast (romans 4)

It is if faith so it may be by grace (romans 4)

it if is by grace, it is no longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace (romans 11)

Not by works of righteousness, but by his mercy he saved us (titus 3)

I have so many more
on top of all this Christ established a church to teach and sanctify (baptism) all men unto eternal salvation! matt 28:19
His witnesses acts 1:8
doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42

Nicene Creed!
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
(Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38 acts 22:16)

Dogma / De Fide or “thee faith” (found 31 times in the New Testament) eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truths revealed by Christ, taught by His apostolic church! (Matt 28:19)
(The rule of faith)

The faith that binds all Christians! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

Christ and His church are one and teach one truth faith! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 / Jn 8:12 - Matt 5:14
Matt 17:5 - acts 3:22 Matt 18:18
Truth: Jn 14:6 - 1 Tim 3:15

(Most people who oppose catholic dogma actually believe most dogma’s Example: #12 there is only one God)


109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.

162. The Sacraments of the New Covenant contain the grace which they signify, and bestow it on
those who do not hinder it.
163. The Sacraments work ex opere operato (simply by being done).
164. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant confer sanctifying grace on the receivers.
165. Three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders, imprint a character, that is, an
indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason cannot be repeated.
166. The Sacramental Character is a spiritual mark imprinted on the soul.
167. The Sacramental Character continues at least until the death of its bearer.
168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the
Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful
reception of the Sacraments.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.

thks
 
No.

Not of works lest anyone should boast. (eph 2)

if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast (romans 4)

It is if faith so it may be by grace (romans 4)

it if is by grace, it is no longer of works. otherwise grace is no longer grace (romans 11)

Not by works of righteousness, but by his mercy he saved us (titus 3)

I have so many more
acts 1:8 His witnesses

church fathers


“It does not suffice to believe. He who believes and is not yet baptized, but is only a Catechumen, has not yet fully acquired salvation." St. Thomas Aquinas

“Now, even the Catechumen believes in the Cross of the Lord Jesus, but unless he be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace." St. Ambrose

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent


“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
JUSTIN MARTYR

TERTULLIAN
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

ORIGEN
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

POPE LEO I
“And because of the transgression of the first man, the whole stock of the human race was tainted; no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ’s sacrament of baptism, in which there are no distinctions between the reborn, as the apostle [Paul] says, ‘For as many of you as were baptized in Christ did put on Christ; there is neither Jew nor Greek . . . ‘ [Gal. 3:27–28]” (Letters 15:10[11] [A.D. 445]).

FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
“From that time at which our Savior said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], no one can, without the sacrament of baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without baptism, pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying INFANTS; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).




Origen
THE CHURCH RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The APOSTLES, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

Baptism is Necessary for salvation
Irenaeus (120?-200), “’And dipped himself,’ says [the Scripture], ‘seven times in Jordan.’ It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but it served as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'” (Fragment, 34, A.D. 190).

Origen (185-254), “The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants. For the Apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the innate stains of sins, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit.” (Origen, Commentary on Romans, 5:9)

Tertullian (155-220), “When, however, the prescript is laid down that ‘without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, “Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.'” (On Baptism, 12:1, A.D. 203).
Ambrose (340?-397), “The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ’s blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11-12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism . . . “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (On Abraham 2:11:79-84).WATER AND SPIRIT, NOT SPIRIT ONLY, NOT WATER ONLY.1 JOHN 5:8 shows the witnesses on earth SPIRIT, WATER AND BLOOD, you have none of them.

thks
 
The topic is about faith alone, not baptism. Please keep to the topic.
 
Very soon I'm going to start considering such posts as trolling. Things have been explained numerous times and yet you still are intent on presenting a straw man. There is zero reason to continue with such posts. At this point it's either willfull ignorance or trolling.

When I post a scripture such as James 2:17, why do you label it as a strawman ?

When the scripture says faith all by itself is dead, why do you attack me with derogatory remarks and labels?

I have explained what James is contextually saying which is exactly what Paul teaches.

I gave other examples of this principle of faith from the scriptures?

I just find it so demeaning that you and your little band of fellow Calvinist/Reformed people are constantly speaking derogatory things over those who don’t agree with your ideology.

I would certainly report you but there is no one to report you to.

Why don’t you just move on and discuss these things with others.

All you seem to know how to do is call names and threaten people.

If you don’t believe that faith by itself is dead then there is nothing more to discuss.
 
When I post a scripture such as James 2:17, why do you label it as a strawman ?
Because you're using it in a way that has nothing to do with what this discussion is about, namely, what faith alone means.

When the scripture says faith all by itself is dead, why do you attack me with derogatory remarks and labels?
Did I?

I have explained what James is contextually saying which is exactly what Paul teaches.
No, you have taken James out of context so that he contradicts what Paul teaches.

I gave other examples of this principle of faith from the scriptures?
What "principle of faith"?

I just find it so demeaning that you and your little band of fellow Calvinist/Reformed people are constantly speaking derogatory things over those who don’t agree with your ideology.
This is not Reformed theology specific; this is literally basic Christianity that is common to all denominations.

I would certainly report you but there is no one to report you to.
There are other moderators.

Why don’t you just move on and discuss these things with others.
Because you are intent on teaching error and are unwilling to listen to correction.

All you seem to know how to do is call names and threaten people.
Where have I done so?

If you don’t believe that faith by itself is dead then there is nothing more to discuss.
Case in point. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.
 
Because you're using it in a way that has nothing to do with what this discussion is about, namely, what faith alone means.

Faith alone. Faith by itself means the same thing.
 
Faith alone. Faith by itself means the same thing.
Case in point again--you're intent on not understanding those who believe different from you.
 
Case in point again--you're intent on not understanding those who believe different from you.

Here is what I understand about this discussion topic.

Faith by itself which is faith alone is dead.

The only reason I believe this is because I understand the principle of faith; how faith works.

This is called the obedience of faith.

Furthermore faith by itself, faith alone, is incomplete.

Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:22-26


  • Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

If Rahab would have hid the spy’s, then went and told the people of Jericho where they were hiding, would she have been justified?

No.

Her obedience to do what God inspired her to do, caused her faith she received from Him, to be complete and therefore became activated to produce the intended divine result of justification.

  • For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

With the woman of the issue of blood, she obeyed and went and touched the hem of His garment.


Come on Free, I know you see what I’m saying… that I’m not teaching a works salvation doctrine.
 
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