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What is heresy?

Wrg1405

Wrg1405

Member
This often confuses me and worries me.

Let's say I believe once saved always saved but you say you can lose your salvation.
Let's say I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but you do.

One of is right and therefore the other must be wrong. That being the case is that heresy? If so what are the consequences of that when we stand before Jesus?

Does the following apply to the one who is wrong

1 Corinthians 3:12-15

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Or as I have been told because I believe once saved always saved then I'm going to hell along with those that I am sending there because of what I have told them (please note that I don't in this context believe in greasy grace, I.e it's a licence to sin and I'm not looking for a discussion on this)
 
You must always test what you believe against scripture. If you do not find what you believe in scripture then it must be heresy.
 
Wrg1405 said:
This often confuses me and worries me.
Click to expand...
Heresy is any teaching which is contrary to what is taught in the Bible, particularly in the New Testament. There is no need to speculate about hypothetical scenarios.

The important things is (a) what do you believe and (b) can you support your beliefs with Scripture. Regarding salvation, eternal life is God's GIFT to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, receiving him as Lord and Savior (Romans 10: 6-13). If He is Lord of your life, then you obey Him in baptism (Matthew 28:19).
 
Malachi said:
Heresy is any teaching which is contrary to what is taught in the Bible, particularly in the New Testament. There is no need to speculate about hypothetical scenarios.

The important things is (a) what do you believe and (b) can you support your beliefs with Scripture. Regarding salvation, eternal life is God's GIFT to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, receiving him as Lord and Savior (Romans 10: 6-13). If He is Lord of your life, then you obey Him in baptism (Matthew 28:19).
Click to expand...
Ok let's say you don't get bptised before you die
 
Wrg1405 said:
Ok let's say you don't get bptised before you die
Click to expand...
Since salvation is not predicated on baptism you would still go to heaven. Baptism is just a symbol that you are part of His covenant of salvation.

Sure there are people who will have their children baptized if they know they are going to die soon after birth, but quite honestly it is really unnecessary.
 
Wrg1405 said:
Ok let's say you don't get bptised before you die
Click to expand...
Obviously there is veeeery wide diversity on the subject.

I believe "believers" are baptized by His Spirit, unseen.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Did we see any of that with our eyes? Uh, no. I remember, vividly, when it happened though. It was far more real than "physical water" to me. But, in accordance with requirements, I was baptized in physical water, not just once either. Once as an infant, once in RCC conversion and finally, by full immersion, just to make sure. I kind of shake my head about the spiritual ignorance I exhibited in the last 2. Particularly the last one, because it was a "just to be safe" thing. I think I was safe to start with. I also doubt very much that someone who believes and gets in an accident on the road to the baptism font and dies is going to be damned because of it. Nor do I think believers can be damned at all. It took me some time though to study that conclusion out.

Salvation is a matter of faith in Christ, external exercises notwithstanding. None of these "external exercises" really save anyone or "cause" them to see.

I doubt very much that the people of Israel who crossed through the Red Sea perceived that as their baptism. But it was, and they didn't even get wet.

1 Corinthians 10
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Did they perceive ANY of the above as such? No! But that's what it was.

go figure.
 
Hi smaller

I agree with you, same happened to me. Professed my faith in Jesus, was sprinkled on my head at the same time.
I ended up in a baptist church and was told I was not baptised and needed to be fully emersed which I was.

I must admit that my thoughts were that my sprinkling whilst confessing was null and void and not true. I don't believe that now.

Anyway as I said above I'm not looking to start a debate about who is right and who is wrong. What I'm asking is that when two opposing views are muted one is wrong and one is right.

When the person who is wrong stands before the judgement seat of Christ what happens?

I have to be honest I have shrunk back from saying what I beleive to be true which I feel I could back up with scripture even having read the opposite viewpoint backed up with scripture, just in case i am wrong.

Cause if I'm wrong according to some I'm going to hell with those I have sent there because they have believed what I said. My hearts desire has always to be a minister of the Gospel of Jesus. I've knocked that on the head.

I do not want to stand before Jesus and have him look me in the eye and say "You taught heresy, away from me wicked person" I fear the shame and the consequence.

If I'm overanalysing let me know, if I'm being paranoid let me know, if I'm being deceived let me know.

I love Jesus, I seek him every day, I want to be like him, I want people to see him in me, just like those who probably have different doctrinal thoughts than I do.

Both will stand before Jesus one day THEN WHAT?
 
Wrg1405 said:
This often confuses me and worries me.

Let's say I believe once saved always saved but you say you can lose your salvation.
Let's say I don't believe you need to be baptised to be saved but you do.

One of is right and therefore the other must be wrong. That being the case is that heresy? If so what are the consequences of that when we stand before Jesus?

Does the following apply to the one who is wrong

1 Corinthians 3:12-15

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Or as I have been told because I believe once saved always saved then I'm going to hell along with those that I am sending there because of what I have told them (please note that I don't in this context believe in greasy grace, I.e it's a licence to sin and I'm not looking for a discussion on this)
Click to expand...
Heresy is a teaching that is unsupported by scripture. Now, I am not all that slow to point heresy against; 1. The Virgin Birth 2. The Blood Atonement 3. The Deity of Jesus 4. The Bodily Resurection of Jesus but on matter such as OSAS I tend not to find much fruit in such arguments and prefere something such as I'll drop something such as, "I'll wave at you on the way up.

The Fundamentals of Christianity are not disputable but OSAS is not required for the Pail Of Orthodoxy and if one ignores the full context of the scriptures and is something like a TULIP Believer, it is easy (risky I believe) to stand there.

Oh, I am also OSAS.
 
Wrg1405 said:
Hi smaller

I agree with you, same happened to me. Professed my faith in Jesus, was sprinkled on my head at the same time.
I ended up in a baptist church and was told I was not baptised and needed to be fully emersed which I was.

I must admit that my thoughts were that my sprinkling whilst confessing was null and void and not true. I don't believe that now.

Anyway as I said above I'm not looking to start a debate about who is right and who is wrong. What I'm asking is that when two opposing views are muted one is wrong and one is right.

When the person who is wrong stands before the judgement seat of Christ what happens?

I have to be honest I have shrunk back from saying what I beleive to be true which I feel I could back up with scripture even having read the opposite viewpoint backed up with scripture, just in case i am wrong.

Cause if I'm wrong according to some I'm going to hell with those I have sent there because they have believed what I said. My hearts desire has always to be a minister of the Gospel of Jesus. I've knocked that on the head.

I do not want to stand before Jesus and have him look me in the eye and say "You taught heresy, away from me wicked person" I fear the shame and the consequence.

If I'm overanalysing let me know, if I'm being paranoid let me know, if I'm being deceived let me know.

I love Jesus, I seek him every day, I want to be like him, I want people to see him in me, just like those who probably have different doctrinal thoughts than I do.

Both will stand before Jesus one day THEN WHAT?
Click to expand...

Insight?

Jesus has advised us that we will LIVE by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

There is no reason to shrink back, even from the harshest Words of God, to ourSELVES.

Bear with me for a moment, because the scripture you fear to hear personally, you should look forward to with GLEE because HIS WORD IS LIFE!

So, we look upon the wrath, condemnation and eternal damnation Words and we run directly away from them as fast as possible, and we will not and can not HEAR them because we do not hear LIFE in them! Or, as you say "away from me wicked person" I fear the shame and the consequence."

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

How is there LIFE in these Words of God in Christ?!

IF we understand that in our own flesh is sin, indwelling. Romans 7:17-20 We have evil present with us. Romans 7:21. We have "temptation" in our flesh. Gal. 4:14. OUR SIN is in fact "of the devil." 1 John 3:8

When WE as believers are WASHED by the Water of Gods Word/Spirit we come out CLEAN.

But, there is another working in our flesh for whom baptism will do no good!

IF I am alive in the flesh when Jesus comes, then I EXPECT to hear what you fear to hear, because I look FORWARD to the day I will rid myself of this VILE BODY and the evil/sin/demonic that it is currently under subjection to.

And I also know that the devils DO fear to hear what I am waiting to hear. So they will try everything in their power to make me FEAR to hear because that is THEIR end, not MINE.

Never fear The Word of Life. Even on the bad side of the ledgers. These are also meant for our LIFE. When Jesus looked at Peter and commanded Satan to 'get behind me' Jesus did a GREAT SERVICE to Peter in those Words.

Not all is at it appears on the surface.
 
th1b.taylor said:
Heresy is a teaching that is unsupported by scripture. Now, I am not all that slow to point heresy against; 1. The Virgin Birth 2. The Blood Atonement 3. The Deity of Jesus 4. The Bodily Resurection of Jesus but on matter such as OSAS I tend not to find much fruit in such arguments and prefere something such as I'll drop something such as, "I'll wave at you on the way up.

The Fundamentals of Christianity are not disputable but OSAS is not required for the Pail Of Orthodoxy and if one ignores the full context of the scriptures and is something like a TULIP Believer, it is easy (risky I believe) to stand there.

Oh, I am also OSAS.
Click to expand...
Why risky? Is not the Aremenian proclamations risky? What is the risk?
 
smaller said:
Insight?

Jesus has advised us that we will LIVE by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

There is no reason to shrink back, even from the harshest Words of God, to ourSELVES.

Bear with me for a moment, because the scripture you fear to hear personally, you should look forward to with GLEE because HIS WORD IS LIFE!

So, we look upon the wrath, condemnation and eternal damnation Words and we run directly away from them as fast as possible, and we will not and can not HEAR them because we do not hear LIFE in them! Or, as you say "away from me wicked person" I fear the shame and the consequence."

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

How is there LIFE in these Words of God in Christ?!

IF we understand that in our own flesh is sin, indwelling. Romans 7:17-20 We have evil present with us. Romans 7:21. We have "temptation" in our flesh. Gal. 4:14. OUR SIN is in fact "of the devil." 1 John 3:8

When WE as believers are WASHED by the Water of Gods Word/Spirit we come out CLEAN.

But, there is another working in our flesh for whom baptism will do no good!

IF I am alive in the flesh when Jesus comes, then I EXPECT to hear what you fear to hear, because I look FORWARD to the day I will rid myself of this VILE BODY and the evil/sin/demonic that it is currently under subjection to.

And I also know that the devils DO fear to hear what I am waiting to hear. So they will try everything in their power to make me FEAR to hear because that is THEIR end, not MINE.

Never fear The Word of Life. Even on the bad side of the ledgers. These are also meant for our LIFE. When Jesus looked at Peter and commanded Satan to 'get behind me' Jesus did a GREAT SERVICE to Peter in those Words.

Not all is at it appears on the surface.
Click to expand...

I think I get you. Can you explain it as if I'm a 5 year old. Not wishing to be obtuse
 
smaller said:
Well, I tried. We can always go back to the ever spinning roulette wheel of conflicting doctrines.
Click to expand...
I'm grateful you did. Please don't think I'm knocking you cause I'm not. If you were a hamster on the wheel what would your name be?

Seriously I do value your input and have read it a few times and will a few times more.
 
smaller said:
Already have a sufficient nom de plume. I might venture it, similar, with fur. fur-smaller perhaps. :lol
Click to expand...

So is smaller your pseoudonym? You're non de plume. Well smaller, non de plume & fur-smaller thanks for spending time with me. I think I would like a non de plume, it sounds fancy. Any ideas?
 
Wrg1405 said:
So is smaller your pseoudonym? You're non de plume. Well smaller, non de plume & fur-smaller thanks for spending time with me. I think I would like a non de plume, it sounds fancy. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Might suggest something multi-synonymous along the lines of your personal engagements with our subject matter here.
 
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