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What is Salvation?

The Subject of the OP is Salvation. It is not about OSAS. It is not about predestination or election. If you wish to discuss those topics, please feel free to start your own tread on the subject matter.

As it is, it seems that most here can't seem to separate Sin from Salvation. That's a shame. Salvation is of the Lord. The focus should be on the Lord and His Glory.

How can the bride prepare herself when she doesn't even know what garments to wear?

I haven't seen anyone say anything about OSAS, but the elect of God and His salvation is to the humbled and contrite heart. If you can not separate sin from God's salvation then what is it you are repenting of and how will you walk in the Spirit if you continue to walk in the flesh.

We have not yet been called to the marriage supper of the Lamb as that happens when Christ returns and then we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, Rev 19:1-9. Until that time I am being made righteous by God's righteousness through His salvation and will continue to wear the full armour of God, Ephesians 6:10-18.
 
ezrider, I went back through all this and I did see where senior talked about falling from grace. I agree, but not part of this topic.
 
Before being born again I am led by my own human inclinations, namely the desires of the flesh. Generally, this is what guides my thought processes and decisions. But the desires of the flesh do not lead to the life of Christ, which is what I am called to. To give in to desires such as pride, laziness, greed, envy, selfishness, and many other forms of evil, leads to sinTo commit sin is to consciously do something that you know goes against God’s will. This can be in word, deed, or even thought. (James 1:14-15)... More. Jesus describes the pre-born-again mind like this: “Because you say ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’ – and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked.” Revelation 3:17.

It is when I acknowledge that I am as described in that verse that I am at the point where I am ready to be born again “of water and the Spirit.” Nothing that I have as a result of being born of the flesh, as a natural person, is capable of serving God. When I acknowledge that I am not able to do the good, then God can take over. I need to surrender absolutely everything to be born of the Spirit – it is a rebirth of the mind and heart. I become dead to the desires of the flesh and alive to the promptings of the Spirit.

I have been crucified with ChristJesus was physically crucified on the cross at Calvary. Though blameless, He took upon Himself the punishment for sin, which was death, so He could pay our debts and forgive us our sin if we are willing to believe in Him and follow Him the Apostle Paul wrote: “I have been crucified with Christ…” (Galatians 2:20) This is a metaphorical... More; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20.

Of course I still have a flesh which craves fulfilment of its desires, but now these desires are overcome and no longer influence me. Instead, I am alive to what the Spirit is guiding me to, which is the truth. My “old man,” as Paul calls my pre-born-again mindset, must remain crucified with Christ and the new life I have been born to is the life of Christ. The life of Jesus is to be manifested in my mortal flesh. (2 Corinthians 4:11) It is precisely because I have been born of the Spirit, and the Spirit lives in me, that I have the power to resist temptation, to remain crucified to the desires of the flesh, and to live for Christ. (Romans 15:13)

https://activechristianity.org/what-does-it-mean-to-be-born-again

We spend too much time discussing where we get it, how we get it, why we need it, who gave it to us...
Possibly we should study WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH IT WHEN I GET IT!!!
Until ALL is on the alter and I live in Christ and HE IN ME, I do not think anyone has Salvation what ever you call it.
 
We have not yet been called to the marriage supper of the Lamb


Many are called, but few are chosen.

If one has not yet been called, then how should they become chosen?


I am reminded of the words of Jesus when he said you don't enter into the kingdom, and you prevent those who would. Matt 23:13

Not all are called. Not all are chosen. Some are elected to death, some are elected to life. Both are a sweet savour unto the Lord.


2 Cor 2:14-17
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
 
Many are called, but few are chosen.

If one has not yet been called, then how should they become chosen?


I am reminded of the words of Jesus when he said you don't enter into the kingdom, and you prevent those who would. Matt 23:13

Not all are called. Not all are chosen. Some are elected to death, some are elected to life. Both are a sweet savour unto the Lord.


2 Cor 2:14-17
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Matthew 22:1-14 is a parable about the Marriage feast. The one who was taken out was the one who was not prepared as his garment was his own righteousness and not the righteousness of God that we are clothed in. This is why Jesus said many are called but few are chosen because many try to come to Christ in their own fleshly ways and will never find him. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. We can only come to the Father by that of John 3:5-7 and Romans 10:9, 10.

The kingdom of God dwells in those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:5; Luke 17:21. All are called, but the ones who are chosen are those who come to Christ through faith as they confess Him as Lord and Savior. God doesn't sit on His throne deciding well I will elect this one or reject this one, but calls all to repentance and those who come to Him are those He will choose to be part of the kingdom of God. 2 Peter 3:9-15.

It's all about God's righteousness found in us which is the garment of the Marriage feast.
 
what is salvation? its what Christ done for us at the cross the payment of sin IT IS FINISHED . the Resurrection gives us new life ye must be born again. a spiritual birth .your either saved or your not ----------period
 
Many are called, but few are chosen.

If one has not yet been called, then how should they become chosen?


I am reminded of the words of Jesus when he said you don't enter into the kingdom, and you prevent those who would. Matt 23:13

Not all are called. Not all are chosen. Some are elected to death, some are elected to life. Both are a sweet savour unto the Lord.


2 Cor 2:14-17
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
Who is not called?
 
Since this is the single most important topic we discuss in Christianity I wish to offer a few ideas that are very important to the full understanding of this topic. Please forgive the length of this post there is a lot here and still I fear I cut the explanations short but I pray you will see just how important this is to being a Christian.

THREE PARTS OF SALVATION!

Please prayerfully stay with me on this, I am asking you to consider the fact that there is more to SALVATION than saying “Lord Save Me.”

To see the whole of the subject we need all the story, very briefly;

God created all the world and made man, (HE had His reason that is beyond my purpose now).
God Said “Do not eat of that tree” Was that a “test”, a “challenge”, or just a commandment? For now let’s just stay with God said do not eat of that tree, in the day you do you will surely die.
Satan had already disobeyed God and took this opportunity to deceive Adam and Eve.
God made man in His Image, Man had the ability to obey God or NOT.
Eve then Adam followed Satan’s lead and disobeyed God.
Disobedience broke fellowship with God and all mankind was left in a position of being subject to Satan’s deceit, accusations, and counterfeit of truth. Please note here sin, all sin, is disobedience to GOD. (The evil that results is the effect if sin, the symptom of sin and serving as evidence of sin.)
There needed to be a way for man to be redeemed, God, in the garden, shed blood to cover sin and shame. He gave Adam and Eve the “First Gospel” Gen 3:15 the Promise of a savior. To claim that promise Adam and Eve HAD TO OBEY GOD, they had to make the sacrifices.
Jesus the savior came to earth and once and for all PAID THAT DEBT IN FULL. The work of Jesus, the work of the Cross, the Payment made IS GOD’S GRACE freely offered to all.

When we by our free choice (ok, with the Spirits Calling) when we make the choice to believe in Jesus and ask God to make us His. (There are libraries full of books dealing with the theology of how, that is not my point not) We are SAVED.
Step number ONE Accept the Grace of God by Faith in Jesus.

BUT, BUT, BUT… that is not all. We often in our preaching and teaching make it sound like the purpose of life is “To find GRACE” All there is that is required is to SAY LORD SAVE ME, THAT IS NOT TRUE!!

Grace is THE STARTING POINT, not the Destination!!

Part two; THERE ARE WORKS IN LIVING FOR GOD!!

It is true that there are no works in Grace God did that for us. But we have a lot of works in living a Christian life, we have sacrifices to make.

The sacrifice is being rejected by a sinful world because I am not part of this world. And rejecting natural self, I give my all to God.
The sacrifice is I die with Christ and share His Cross, I die to self, a bondslave to the Master.
The Promise is that I am risen in the Risen Christ, a new creature a child of God.
The risen Savior Jesus is my King, my all in all and my promise, I will rise in Him when He Comes.

There is more to BEING SAVED than church attendance and saying “I’m Saved.”

There are the sacrifices!
Rejected by the world and rejecting the world and self.
Dead to self and sharing the cross of Jesus dead with HIM.
Risen as new creatures in Christ in the family of God.
Francis Shaffer From True Spirituality ( it is worth reading)

To live in myself, my will is to follow Satan’s counterfeit. Psalms says the Fool has said in his heart there is no God. But to make the sacrifice rejecting the world and the counterfeit is to die with Christ to share His Cross and die to self. A bondslave to Jesus not my will but always His.
The sacrifice of today, the part of salvation we fail to see and I fear practice is rejection of self and the world, to share in the cross. I belong to the King of Kings not to me. We cannot say Jesus save me and live the way we want to after that.
The ones that by faith accept God’s gift of grace know what Romans 3:21-24 says. The answer to disobeying God is in what God gives, His Righteousness made known in Jesus. We must have that righteousness to come before God. Jesus took my place and paid the debt I could not pay and in HIS BLOOD gave me that righteousness.

There is therefore (The therefore is Jesus) now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:1-2
The THEREFORE is the Blood Paid Price that gives to us The Righteousness. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

see part 2
 
Saved by Grace through Faith Rejecting self and the world we are indwelled by God’s the Holy Spirit. The position of God’s Spirit is the surety of the promise of the resurrection. The promise that when we die with Christ and yield our self to Him we shall be risen at His coming. Yet, it is a present position. Just as in Christ Blood, Adam was covered by the sacrifice “Looking forward to the promise was in right standing with God. So too we in Christ are new creatures, Old things are passed away and all things become new. Today’s sacrifice is rejecting self and this world and dying with Christ on the Cross. We are His yielded to Him. The sacrifice, the cost is, “MY all on the Cross with Jesus.” The righteousness of God and the resurrection are the promise of that sacrifice THEY ARE MINE NOW!!!
If however Satan can convince us that we are so evil so “Totally Depraved” that we cannot know God, Satan has made a major step to making every man a sinner.
Christians are not and cannot be Sinners.
Satan has made this, “you are a sinner” idea work for a long time and steals the Christian Victory we should have. If people are convinced that they are too sinful to choose, God must do it all and choose who will be saved “what difference does it make God will Do it all any way” But, if we recognize that there two groups of people and that a free moral agent is responsible for the choice they make. We must choose to make the sacrifice to live for God. Reject the world, reject self and Satan, die with Christ on His cross to Live again.
I hear preachers talking about “Repentant Sinners” almost to the point you would think we have to be saved or at least repent of our many sins every week, day, hour.
But, the work of Jesus on the cross made a difference, we are not, cannot be in the flesh bound to sin. Jesus changed all that!
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous.
Rom 8:2 But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Everything Adam did to damage fellowship between man and God: JESUS restored and more too. Jesus is now at the right hand of God as our intercessor, so if we fail He is there to protect us. We are in Christ, we cannot be living in sin!

A Christian is not a Repentant Sinner. Was a sinner yes, but now a new creature in Christ, not living in sin and constantly repenting of sin, we must choose to turn from sin.

A Christian is in Christ! In Christ we are “Indwelled by the Holy Spirit”, Adopted into the family of God, Adopted as Children of God, Heirs of God, Joint heirs with Christ. Old things are passed away ALL things are become new. We are the temple of God indwelled by the Holy Spirit we are Priest of the Most High God with Jesus as Our High Priest. We are a Royal Priest hood and will rule with Christ in the Kingdom. The office of a Priest has always been to lead the people to God, to teach the people by life and example how to come to and know God. In Christ that is our responsibility NOW. We must choose to be a servant of Christ and do His will in all we do.

There are TWO groups of people, the ones choosing God and the ones that reject God. There is now and always has been two groups in the world “sons of God” and “sons of men”.
Being saved, Living in God is about acknowledging and obeying and trusting GOD.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing…
This new birthright of Grace and our place in it along with our relation to Jesus Christ our High Priest is the heart of “many things to say” and of which we cannot allow ourselves to be “dull of hearing”. Much of the problem in our present time comes from the church not teaching the true position and responsibilities of the Christian.

We have a responsibility to go tell others the wonders of God’s grace. If there are suffering and hard work, the toil is nothing compared to the love of God. And even this suffering has a promise.
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

We have a responsibility, Every Christian has a responsibility, to be a bondslave of the Master and teach the Church and learn the truth from the word of God and to share this truth with others. We must learn what we can of what the world is saying and the errors that confront the Church. How else can we ever seek to teach the truth and correct errors if we do not know what they are?

The birthright with Christ carries with it a great responsibility.

Part three is the hardest to understand and explain.

This final step in salvation is called many things by different groups all trying to explain the wonders of salvation. Some say “a second work of Grace”, others “Christian maturity” or ”Christian Perfection”. Still others “Total sanctification” but all I think are trying to say the same thing.

As we mature in Christian service we learn the more I yield myself to God the more His power can flow through me to do His work and will. When Living for Jesus is all I want and know there is a change in life that solves many problems.
To be only HIS my all in all what a blessed thought.

Again forgive the length of this post but I do not know how to say it in less words.
 
All are called, but


Can you please share from the scriptures where it is written that ALL are called. MANY certainly does not equate to ALL.



1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:



Scripture seem pretty clear to me.
 
I'm sorry, but that remains with the Father.
Your answer is in post. no. 51
Your answer to ME should have been
ALL are called.

So, I'll ask again...
WHO is called?

If you don't think ALL are called, then you must have an ideas as to WHO is called....

Many...did God limit who He called?
Does He not want everyone saved?
How do you explain...
John 3:16
Timothy 2:4
John 12:32
2 Peter 3:9

Why do you prefer Mathew 22:14?
Do you prefer that God NOT call everyone?
 
Can you please share from the scriptures where it is written that ALL are called. MANY certainly does not equate to ALL.



1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:



Scripture seem pretty clear to me.
we certainly know we have to be called we do know we are elected ..beyond that we simply DO not know..what we do know is that whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved ! if you ask certain calvinist they will tell you who can who can not.. if God is drawing /dealing with your heart then we can be saved.. we only plant seeds and water them God gives the increase REVsre made some pretty good post back with scripture .but fact remains Jesus way truth life no man comes to the father but by him. so the Holy spirit draws us in we call up on the name of the Lord and were saved by grace through faith.. i heard it said this way the 3 B born again baptized blessed . this guy said God save me and he DID ..i rest my case.. i really wish we could stop trying to complicate /improve the plan of salvation.
 
Your answer is in post. no. 51
Your answer to ME should have been
ALL are called.

So, I'll ask again...
WHO is called?

Why should my answer to you have been ALL when the scripture does not say ALL, especially in light of the scripture that I posted in #51.

The Lord is sovereign, does he not reserve the right to choose whom He calls?




Why do you prefer Mathew 22:14?
Do you prefer that God NOT call everyone?


Why do I prefer Matthew 22:14? Have I posted that scripture in this thread somewhere? What is the context of Matthew 22:14? What other scriptures have I managed to post in this thread and how might they relate?


As for_his_glory stated in post #41, do you believe that you have not yet been called?
 
Why should my answer to you have been ALL when the scripture does not say ALL, especially in light of the scripture that I posted in #51.

The Lord is sovereign, does he not reserve the right to choose whom He calls?







Why do I prefer Matthew 22:14? Have I posted that scripture in this thread somewhere? What is the context of Matthew 22:14? What other scriptures have I managed to post in this thread and how might they relate?


As for_his_glory stated in post #41, do you believe that you have not yet been called?
Known you a long time EZ.
I'm just surprised to find out you might be calvinist in your theology.

I posted Mathew because that's where it says that many are called.

The few chosen refers to the narrow gate...it refers to those that are willing to accept God's conditions.

Do you think it's possible to take away God's sovereignty just because we have the free will to choose Him or not?
What a small God that would be.
 
Calvinists see God's sovereignty as determining human will, whereas the majority of Christianity sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will (through infallible foreknowledge). Calvinists are a fringe sect of Christianity. They are the outliers.

If the Calvinists are correct, then salvation is nothing more than an arbitrary act by a God who acts with pure will (much like the Islamic understanding of God). Salvation in Calvinism is nothing more than a flip of a coin.
 
Calvinists see God's sovereignty as determining human will, whereas the majority of Christianity sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will (through infallible foreknowledge). Calvinists are a fringe sect of Christianity. They are the outliers.

If the Calvinists are correct, then salvation is nothing more than an arbitrary act by a God who acts with pure will (much like the Islamic understanding of God). Salvation in Calvinism is nothing more than a flip of a coin.
pretty much and i have debated yes even argued this in carm .with Calvinism i fail to see the need to even seek the Lord or even worry about preaching to the Lost
 
pretty much and i have debated yes even argued this in carm .with Calvinism i fail to see the need to even seek the Lord or even worry about preaching to the Lost

Exactly, as seeking, listening or preaching is futile in Calvin's religion. Again, salvation is entirely arbitrary; a flip of a coin. If you are one of his elect, you are going to heaven regardless if you want to, kicking and screaming. Conversely, if you are one of his creatures he chose to take pleasure in seeing destroyed, you are eternal pulpwood, regardless if you live a life of faith, hope and charity.

Of course all Calvinists believe they are on the winning side of the coin flip. How convenient.
 
i have had many fruitless discussions on this .the end results i get is being told straw man theology and a false teacher
 
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