What is SAVED?

[GodsGrace]

So hypothetically, I believe that Jesus really is the son of God, he really died for my sin and he really rose from the dead, just like it says on the back of this fake $20 bill tract that I found.
So as long as I keep on believing this, even if I never do anything else, I am saved, I get to stay saved and I get to go to heaven ... Right?

[Back up your answer with scripture, because opinions are like bellybuttons ... everyone has one.]

Atpollard,
You believe Jesus is the Son of God.
so does satan.

You believe He really died for your sins.
so does satan.

You believe He really rose from the dead.
so does satan.

So how are you saved just by the above?
How is your belief different from satan's belief?

And herein lie all your answers.
The answer is in John 3:16
Read it carefully and let me know.

 

[atpollard]

Atpollard,
You believe Jesus is the Son of God.
so does satan.

You believe He really died for your sins.
so does satan.

You believe He really rose from the dead.
so does satan.

So how are you saved just by the above?
How is your belief different from satan's belief?

And herein lie all your answers.
The answer is in John 3:16
Read it carefully and let me know.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I have been pounded for months with quotes that 'those who believed for a while were saved for a while' and when they stopped beleiving, they stopped being saved. So here I have started from that so often quoted position and asked "what is SAVED?" and is there any more to it than that. I have read John 3:16 carefully and your statements. Based on your statements and exclusively the conditions of John 3:16, you have convinced me that Satan is saved. [OK, not really. So what was your point, because I don't see it.].

John 3:16 says believe in Jesus. So if I believe in Jesus then I have eternal life (according to John 3:16). Is that all there is to this whole salvation thing? Am I done? As long as I keep believing in Jesus (and repenting when I do wrong) God requires nothing more from me. This really doesn't sound so hard. Why will people hate me for being a Christian? Heck, how will they even know?

 

[GodsGrace]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I have been pounded for months with quotes that 'those who believed for a while were saved for a while' and when they stopped beleiving, they stopped being saved. So here I have started from that so often quoted position and asked "what is SAVED?" and is there any more to it than that. I have read John 3:16 carefully and your statements. Based on your statements and exclusively the conditions of John 3:16, you have convinced me that Satan is saved. [OK, not really. So what was your point, because I don't see it.].

John 3:16 says believe in Jesus. So if I believe in Jesus then I have eternal life (according to John 3:16). Is that all there is to this whole salvation thing? Am I done? As long as I keep believing in Jesus (and repenting when I do wrong) God requires nothing more from me. This really doesn't sound so hard. Why will people hate me for being a Christian? Heck, how will they even know?

My point is that in all your reasons for being saved,
believing Jesus is God
believing He died for your sins
believing in the resurrection...

You never stated that you must BELIEVE IN HIM.

OK.

Now... What does BELIEVE mean?
What does it mean to believe in Him?

People on these forums are always talking about the Greek, the aorist tense, what things really mean - they don't mean what we think it means. Sometimes I think I'll explode...

But there is one word that is VERY important to understand...
BELIEVE

I'll go to you so you don't think I'm trying to teach you anything.

What exactly does it mean to Believe in Jesus??

 

[GodsGrace]

atpollard

This will answer your questions about what else you have to do, if anything, to be saved...

 

[atpollard]

What exactly does it mean to Believe in Jesus??

I am a former atheist, so 'believe' is a pretty big deal to me. It did not come easily or naturally for me. So the divine revelation that God was really real, came as quite a shock. It required rethinking everything I thought I knew.

... but saved, is more than just believing. To follow Christ is to live a transformed life with your eyes and ears open to a world that you were blind and deaf to before the great transformation. This is why all of the talk of 'saved' one day and 'not saved' the next fall on deaf ears with me. The emphirical transformation makes the concept of a human alchemy capable of transforming the new creation back into the old body of sin and death inconceivable to me.

Thus this quest to learn the thought of others to the very real question: What is SAVED?

 

[atpollard]

Can we discuss what Repent means?

Sure, but just for the record, everything Jesus said that you quoted was easily doable pre-Resurection, so is belief in his death and resurrection even necessary?

 

[atpollard]

atpollard
This will answer your questions about what else you have to do, if anything, to be saved...

Cute.

 

[Nathan]

One thing that separates satans belief from ours. That we Sinned. There is no need of a savior to those who don't believe they need one.

Satan sinned, but he keeps on sinning. He believed, and still does, that he can be god or like Him.

We believe in Jesus because we know we need Him. Not because we need to have a way to heaven, but because without Him there is no way.

Being saved is all about our sinfulness and Gods greatness.

 

[atpollard]

Now... What does BELIEVE mean?
What does it mean to believe in Him?

If I say that I believe in the Tooth Fairy, then that would mean that I believe that the Tooth Fairy exists. I believe that the Tooth Fairy takes the tooth from under my pillow. I believe that the Tooth Fairy leaves money under my pillow in place of the tooth. That is believing in the tooth fairy.

If I believe in Jesus, then I believe that Jesus exists. I believe that Jesus died to remove my sin. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and promised that I will too.

Is there more to believing in Him than that?

 

[atpollard]

atpollard
This will answer your questions about what else you have to do, if anything, to be saved...

So what is SAVED? Once I have done whatever it is that God requires, what exactly do I have?
Is it anything more than 'eternal fire' insurance?

 

[atpollard]

One thing that separates satans belief from ours. That we Sinned. There is no need of a savior to those who don't believe they need one.
Satan sinned, but he keeps on sinning. He believed, and still does, that he can be god or like Him.
We believe in Jesus because we know we need Him. Not because we need to have a way to heaven, but because without Him there is no way.
Being saved is all about our sinfulness and Gods greatness.

Romans 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

It's all about the heart (isn't it always).

 

[Nathan]

Romans 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

It's all about the heart (isn't it always).

Most definitely. That's why so many people don't understand it. Only until God gives you faith, in your heart, can you believe. Lots of people try to believe, but few want to give up control.

 

[Nathan]

It's really not about having but rather knowing. Is it not wonderful to know your sins are forgiven? To know that sin doesn't control you? To know when physical life is over there is eternal life with your creator?

 

[GodsGrace]

I am a former atheist, so 'believe' is a pretty big deal to me. It did not come easily or naturally for me. So the divine revelation that God was really real, came as quite a shock. It required rethinking everything I thought I knew.

... but saved, is more than just believing. To follow Christ is to live a transformed life with your eyes and ears open to a world that you were blind and deaf to before the great transformation. This is why all of the talk of 'saved' one day and 'not saved' the next fall on deaf ears with me. The emphirical transformation makes the concept of a human alchemy capable of transforming the new creation back into the old body of sin and death inconceivable to me.

Thus this quest to learn the thought of others to the very real question: What is SAVED?

Atpollard
We're all former atheists.
Until God becomes real to us. I went to church all my life, but God wasn't real.
He became real to me just like He did for you.
That's when everything had to be rethought and everything in the world looked different to me.

I'm not here for you - I'd like to make that clear and do like to repeat this every now and then.
There are persons reading along - guests, other members - who may have questions regarding this OSAS concept. So I like to be here to give the other side.

It's not to condemn anyone. It's more as a warning not to think that one could be saved one day and then go off and never think of God again and not have a transformation because someone told them all is just fine now.

This is the only reason I post on these OSAS threads.

 

[GodsGrace]

If I say that I believe in the Tooth Fairy, then that would mean that I believe that the Tooth Fairy exists. I believe that the Tooth Fairy takes the tooth from under my pillow. I believe that the Tooth Fairy leaves money under my pillow in place of the tooth. That is believing in the tooth fairy.

If I believe in Jesus, then I believe that Jesus exists. I believe that Jesus died to remove my sin. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and promised that I will too.

Is there more to believing in Him than that?

BELIEVE:

If you believe in the tooth fairy it means you believe that the tooth fairy exists.
Right.
But you don't become like the tooth fairy. You remain atpollard.

So believe, in the N.T., must mean more.

I don't like going to the Greek because I know a theologian that knows Koine Greek and he always tells me to stay away because it's not as easy as it would seem to persons like me and you.

But in this case I have to make an exception!

Believe means to trust in the person you are believing in.
It means that you want to follow them.
You want them to be your teacher.
You want to do the same things they do,
and become like them.
It means to follow in the sense that they are your LORD.
Jesus is not only our Savior, He is also our LORD.
This means to make Him the master of your life.

So Believe means a lot more than just believing something or other that Jesus did.
This is why satan also believes in the Christ, but he is not A BELIEVER.

Now, you said I said a cute thing back there -- but let's analyze.

If I've just told you the above (which you really probably already knew) and I tell you that therein lies the answer to your question as to whether it's necessary to do anything else -- was I wrong?

If you believe IN JESUS, and want to follow Him and learn from Him,
THEN you must do everything He said to do!

This you learn from HIS words. Also, from the writers of the N.T. since they all agree but I like to hear what Jesus has to say for Himself if I'm to follow Him.

So, for instance, you go to Mathew and read all the words in red.
Or Luke, or John or Mark. Any gospel - all four.

You read the whole bible and come to an understanding of what God would want from you.

Next will be SAVED, but I need to leave now.
What does Save mean?
What are we saved from?
What are we saved to?
Is it a gift, is it a process?
Can we lose it?
How?

 

[GodsGrace]

One thing that separates satans belief from ours. That we Sinned. There is no need of a savior to those who don't believe they need one.

Satan sinned, but he keeps on sinning. He believed, and still does, that he can be god or like Him.

We believe in Jesus because we know we need Him. Not because we need to have a way to heaven, but because without Him there is no way.

Being saved is all about our sinfulness and Gods greatness.

Nathan
You've stated two very important concepts in this post and another one:

1. "If you believe you've never sinned, you don't need a savior" ! I know persons who tell me they've never sinned!!

2. "Isn't it wonderful to know that SIN DOESN'T CONTROL YOU?"
Amen to that.
The difference between the O.C. and the N.C.

You simply say such important concepts...

 

[WIP]

If I say that I believe in the Tooth Fairy, then that would mean that I believe that the Tooth Fairy exists. I believe that the Tooth Fairy takes the tooth from under my pillow. I believe that the Tooth Fairy leaves money under my pillow in place of the tooth. That is believing in the tooth fairy.

If I believe in Jesus, then I believe that Jesus exists. I believe that Jesus died to remove my sin. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and promised that I will too.

Is there more to believing in Him than that?

How does faith fit in with this? Is not faith in He who saves also part of it? And what does that faith look like? Faith unto death perhaps? Belief, faith, and trust to the point of death and beyond, ergo, our very lives. Not just for this very moment but for ever and always and everything.

 

[JLB]

Sure, but just for the record, everything Jesus said that you quoted was easily doable pre-Resurection, so is belief in his death and resurrection even necessary?

The Gospel message is: Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

This is the call to turn to God, in submission to His rule and authority.

This is the command of the Gospel that we are to believe/obey.

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the Lord you serve.


Repent is the command of the Gospel.

Not repent of your sins.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn away from Satan as your lord.

The way that you express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


The way we are granted the forgiveness of sins, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, and confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[atpollard]

It's not to condemn anyone. It's more as a warning not to think that one could be saved one day and then go off and never think of God again and not have a transformation because someone told them all is just fine now.

This is the only reason I post on these OSAS threads.

The irony is that we agree on the conclusion.
You would just caution them about the "AS" of OSAS
I would caution them about the "OS" of OSAS ... "Don't play with God, salvation is about making a whole life (every part of you) commitment to follow Jesus. Frankly, because Jesus is the only one worth following! So don't play with it, get serious with getting to know HIM."

 

[atpollard]

The Gospel message is: Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

This is the call to turn to God, in submission to His rule and authority.

This is the command of the Gospel that we are to believe/obey.

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the Lord you serve.


Repent is the command of the Gospel.

Not repent of your sins.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn away from Satan as your lord.

The way that you express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


The way we are granted the forgiveness of sins, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, and confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.



JLB

I really wish we had a "like" button ... that was a GREAT explanation of repentance leading to salvation.

One small follow up question, you focused on the Human Effort ... what part does God play?
Are all called and some forgiven because they chose to repent and others not forgiven because they chose not to repent with God on the sidelines watching? [I suspect that is not your position, and look forward to your answer.]