What is SAVED?

[Nathan]

It depends on the definition of work. I put on shorts and climbed into the water and held my nose (God didn't do that part) so is that work?

God did most of the work, and God did ALL of the work essential for salvation.

I see what you meant now. Thanks.

 

[Nathan]

So those sins that I commit while I still believe are forgiven (imputed righteousness through the work of the cross) but the sins that I commit after I walk away are not covered by the Blood of the Cross. Is that what you are saying?

If we want to get technical, it was Jesus blood, that was shed on the cross.

Because He died, and God was satisfied, only those in Him recieve that covering.

That is what being saved is all about. . Forgiveness of sins

 

[atpollard]

Wouldn't a third theological point be that Jesus died for whoever will believe on Him for eternal life? And those who believe recieve forgiveness?

You mean whichever of THESE people would, of their own free will and following their own fallen nature, choose to believe in Jesus ...

Romans 3:10-18
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

... And you wonder why I think God does the work monergisticly and chooses whom he will save.

 

[Nathan]

You mean whichever of THESE people would, of their own free will and following their own fallen nature, choose to believe in Jesus ...

Romans 3:10-18
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

... And you wonder why I think God does the work monergisticly and chooses whom he will save.

Oh no, not at all. None of those people will ever choose to believe. No one can believe unless God gives them faith to believe.

Once God gives you faith, then you have the choice to believe or not.

Most definitely God gets all the credit, because apart from faith no one can possibly believe.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Nathan]

I would also add that because God loved the world He does send His servants into the world to proclaim this good news.

That way the world can hear, God gives faith through the preaching of the good news.

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[JLB]

Did Lucifer have the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing the inheritance?

I believe he had a greater measure of the Holy Spirit than we can imagine.

He was anointed with the Holy Spirit, beyond what we can know or experience in this fleshly body.

He was created as perfect in his ways, and was held to a much higher standard than we who can not see the Lord or heaven or angels, or to know about all the things that is known in that realm by the hierarchy of the Lord's angels.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:14-15


To who much is given, much is expected.



JLB

 

[JLB]

non- OSAS seems to be the word.

How about we just say Bible Believer, instead of non-osas?



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Isn't "saved" a past tense of a future action?

Sure we can believe God will do as He says...He has never lied or made false promises.

But we use a past tense word to describe a future action.

Romans 6:23

Moses was/is saved. Elijah is saved. The Thief on the cross was saved.

I believe so I will be saved...But the only thing that I have been saved from is my fears and wants.

Thoughts?

 

[JLB]

Isn't "saved" a past tense of a future action?

Sure we can believe God will do as He says...He has never lied or made false promises.

But we use a past tense word to describe a future action.

Romans 6:23

Moses was/is saved. Elijah is saved. The Thief on the cross was saved.

I believe so I will be saved...But the only thing that I have been saved from is my fears and wants.

Thoughts?

Ok, good point.

Saved is past tense, based on a future action.

But please include the condition, by which this past tense action, will become a future action.

Believe is the condition to being saved... lest they believe and are saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition, by which we are saved through faith, and will receive the salvation of our soul, when He returns.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin,
for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB

 

[WIP]

Jesus said all we needed was the faith of a mustard seed.
I like to think that ANY AMOUNT of faith in Him will be my salvation.

Is that really what He said? We only need the faith of a mustard seed? The way I see it, He was telling us that if we had just the faith of a mustard seed we could move mountains by mere thought. I see Him telling us just how little faith we really have. Sort of like the 10-Commandments. They don't just show us how we are expected to live. They also show us how far away from perfection we really are and just how much we truly need our Savior.

I think Jesus defined the standard. The fact that we are incapable of achieving the standard does not give us an excuse or way out. This is why we so desperately need our Savior.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 NKJV
He didn't should or might or may. He said shall.

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” Matthew 19:21 NKJV
He said to be perfect we must follow Him. Not just trail along behind but follow Him in complete submission and surrender.

My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. James 1:2-8 NKJV
Lacking nothing, no doubting. Nada, zilch, zero doubt. That is the standard.

 

[Nathan]

Isn't "saved" a past tense of a future action?

Sure we can believe God will do as He says...He has never lied or made false promises.

But we use a past tense word to describe a future action.

Romans 6:23

Moses was/is saved. Elijah is saved. The Thief on the cross was saved.

I believe so I will be saved...But the only thing that I have been saved from is my fears and wants.

Thoughts?

I would say past tense of a past, present, and future action. That's where God's foreknowledge comes into view.

You honestly should see that your sins have been forgiven, not just fear and wants. We were saved from our sins - past tense, we are being saved from our sins - present tense, and will be saved from sins we have not done - future tense.

We often think of being saved as being only a position with God. When in reality, it is also God putting us in a right position with each other. That's why there is so much said about our love to one another. If God forgave me, who has never done anything wrong to me, why can I not forgive my brother for things he does to me?

 

[WIP]

Jesus said all we needed was the faith of a mustard seed.
I like to think that ANY AMOUNT of faith in Him will be my salvation.

Here's more.

Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, “Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.” And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air havenests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” Then He said to another, “Follow Me.” But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.” And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go andbid them farewell who are at my house.” But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:57-62 NKJV
Is He not saying that we are to give up this life and follow Him? Not just a little but completely and without reservation?

As a dog returns to his own vomit,
So a fool repeats his folly.
Proverbs 26:11 NKJV
Does this not say that when we look back to our old ways we are fools?

 

[Nathan]

Ok, good point.

Saved is past tense, based on a future action.

But please include the condition, by which this past tense action, will become a future action.

Believe is the condition to being saved... lest they believe and are saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition, by which we are saved through faith, and will receive the salvation of our soul, when He returns.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin,
for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB

But also a present reality. Once a person believes in Jesus, the sacrifice covers ALL the sins of our past. When we continue to believe in Jesus the sacrifice covers ALL the sins we commit. And as long as we continue to believe in Him, the sacrifice continues to cover ALL our sin.

Hebrews 7:25 - Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Intercession is why He is in heaven right now with God. When He comes back then He wipes away all sin and intercession is no longer needed.

 

[WIP]

Jesus said all we needed was the faith of a mustard seed.
I like to think that ANY AMOUNT of faith in Him will be my salvation.

And what about this? Can we love this life and God as God would have our love?
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other." Matthew 6:24 NKJV

"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." John 12:25 NKJV
How severe is Jesus saying hating this life intended to be?

 

[JLB]

But also a present reality. Once a person believes in Jesus, the sacrifice covers ALL the sins of our past. When we continue to believe in Jesus the sacrifice covers ALL the sins we commit. And as long as we continue to believe in Him, the sacrifice continues to cover ALL our sin.

Also, if we continue to believe, then we have the assurance that we can confess our current sins to Him, and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

I believe he had a greater measure of the Holy Spirit than we can imagine.

He was anointed with the Holy Spirit, beyond what we can know or experience in this fleshly body.

He was created as perfect in his ways, and was held to a much higher standard than we who can not see the Lord or heaven or angels, or to know about all the things that is known in that realm by the hierarchy of the Lord's angels.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:14-15


To who much is given, much is expected.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

I believe if you study the word "anointed" in the Hebrew it means "one with spread wings" hence the cherub that covereth", not anointed with the Holy Spirit. Lucifer was a spirit being and I have never read where a spirit being was anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Can you provide scripture that Lucifer had the Holy Spirit to any degree?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Also, if we continue to believe, then we have the assurance that we can confess our current sins to Him, and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Did Christ on the Cross pay for the sin of the whole world when he was crucified? Was not our unrighteousness imputed to Christ and his righteousness imputed to the believer when we believe in Christ as our savior, even the sin of unbelief?

 

[Mike]

How about we just say Bible Believer, instead of non-osas?

I was going to delete this, but I'll let it stand as it serves as an example of the kind of comment that should never be made. To say this is to imply that those who hold to OSAS are not Bible believers.

I'm not calling you out personally, JLB, because this is a go-to for to many people on different sides of various topics.

Just don't...

(Please carry on, and do not reply to this message.)

 

[JLB]

How about we just say Bible Believer, instead of non-osas?

To all -

I will clarify, and rephrase my post, as well as learn that what I write may be understood by some as antagonistic, especially in a discussion that has become a very heated topic.

I should have given it more thought.

My Apologies: My Bad.

Here is my rephrase:

Why do we go by such [man-made] names such as OSAS, or Preterist, or Premillennialist... which only serve to divide us, when we should just think of ourselves as Bible Believers.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Did Christ on the Cross pay for the sin of the whole world when he was crucified?

Yes.

Was not our unrighteousness imputed to Christ and his righteousness imputed to the believer when we believe in Christ as our savior, even the sin of unbelief?

Please share the scripture that teaches this.




JLB