[_ Old Earth _] What Is Science?

[Pard]

So you think that America is what made all the medicine and advancement in food/living and all that stuff, not science...? I am sorry, but America is not why the average life span is nearly three times as much as it is 200 years ago.

I'd have to disagree with you. America started something new, and it domino'd to most other "civilized" countries today. France was the next to kick out the kings (though they ended up in a blood bath for 50 years or so...) Then came Spain (they succeeded were France failed). Russia (for a little while!). England. you get the picture. But yes, I'd have to say the innovation of America sparked a changed attitude that reflected in major advancements in everything, not just science.

Are you aware that they plowed field the same way for 5000 years? And then America comes along and 20 years later we have a new plow.

 

[jasoncran]

evo, and non-americans. most of the older prior scopes trial school tests are so hard that no high school average kid would pass the eight grade reqirements.

the american eductational system is so dumbed down that most high school kids cant do basic algebra. i have seen this when i went to college.

i took remedial english and math, most of the students were recent graduates of high school , as opposed to my ten yr break.

 

[Evointrinsic]

So you think that America is what made all the medicine and advancement in food/living and all that stuff, not science...? I am sorry, but America is not why the average life span is nearly three times as much as it is 200 years ago.

I'd have to disagree with you. America started something new, and it domino'd to most other "civilized" countries today. France was the next to kick out the kings (though they ended up in a blood bath for 50 years or so...) Then came Spain (they succeeded were France failed). Russia (for a little while!). England. you get the picture. But yes, I'd have to say the innovation of America sparked a changed attitude that reflected in major advancements in everything, not just science.

And this is the reason why people are living longer because...?

Look, before 200 years ago, in the dark ages, faith and medicine combined. Then, modern science (regardless of who started it or not) arose, and separation of faith and medicine began. There is no religious faith in science.

Also, America had no division between science and faith until the 1920s when the progressives got in and changed began to "separate" the church from everything else.

Even if this were true, you just said that currently there is no faith in science until the 1920s. So you just countered your own argument?

Nonetheless, it doesn't matter who started or spread modern science, The fact is, this is the main reason you will live to around 75-80 years, vs half that or 1/3rd that (assuming you live a healthy lifestyle). and in this point in time, faith and science simply do not mix.

PS: we've used agriculture for 11,000 years ;)

 

[Pard]

And this is the reason why people are living longer because...?

Yes, frankly. The problem is not science and faith. The problem is science and government mixing.

Even if this were true, you just said that currently there is no faith in science until the 1920s. So you just countered your own argument?

Not sure I I get what you are saying at all

PS: we've used agriculture for 11,000 years ;)

I was referring to the stick-plow method, which was used from the beginnings of agriculture (you say 11,000 years ago, I say 6000 years ago). In the late 1700s (like 1790s) an American invented the first plow that you and I would think of today.

 

[Evointrinsic]

And this is the reason why people are living longer because...?

Yes, frankly. The problem is not science and faith. The problem is science and government mixing.

That was actually a question. as in "Why does this justify the increasing length of an average persons life span?"

as for your other statement. There are very few independently run scientific programs/studies that aren't funded by the government to some degree. Could you provide a reason to why you say this?

Even if this were true, you just said that currently there is no faith in science until the 1920s. So you just countered your own argument?

Not sure I I get what you are saying at all

You said that there is faith in science, and then you said there was faith in science up until the 1920's. Which is it?

 

[Pard]

That was actually a question. as in "Why does this justify the increasing length of an average persons life span?"

Oh, because science was able to flourish without tyrannical governments hindering them.

as for your other statement. There are very few independently run scientific programs/studies that aren't funded by the government to some degree. Could you provide a reason to why you say this?

Easy, I meant tyrannical governments, like England's monarchy. It's unbelievable how tightly monarchs controlled most aspects of life and industry

You said that there is faith in science, and then you said there was faith in science up until the 1920's. Which is it?

Now I see what you are saying! I would have to say that faith and science is intertwined, however in the 1920s the government began to restrict the actions of religion, and this is what I had meant. You implied that religion stopped "bothering" science in the 1700s, this was untrue until the 1920s, when the government began to force religion to go hide behind the church doors.

 

[Evointrinsic]

That was actually a question. as in "Why does this justify the increasing length of an average persons life span?"

Oh, because science was able to flourish without tyrannical governments hindering them.

I've already addressed this:

...it doesn't matter who started or spread modern science, The fact is, this is the main reason you will live to around 75-80 years, vs half that or 1/3rd that (assuming you live a healthy lifestyle).

The governments used science. There for science is the main factor your life wont end when your 40. Science is the main factor that you will live around 80.

as for your other statement. There are very few independently run scientific programs/studies that aren't funded by the government to some degree. Could you provide a reason to why you say this?

Easy, I meant tyrannical governments, like England's monarchy. It's unbelievable how tightly monarchs controlled most aspects of life and industry[/quote]

Then perhaps you'd like to be more clear with your phrasing "The problem is science and government mixing." it sure doesn't look like specifically "Tyrannical governments" here. Are you also saying now that all the English run scientific studies are devious in some way? or even most for that matter?

You said that there is faith in science, and then you said there was faith in science up until the 1920's. Which is it?

Now I see what you are saying! I would have to say that faith and science is intertwined, however in the 1920s the government began to restrict the actions of religion, and this is what I had meant. You implied that religion stopped "bothering" science in the 1700s, this was untrue until the 1920s, when the government began to force religion to go hide behind the church doors.

could you give some (non creationist) examples of scientific experiments that use biblical reference to support there work? or scientific experiments that use religious faith within their experiments? and how they do, please.

 

[Pard]

Then perhaps you'd like to be more clear with your phrasing "The problem is science and government mixing." it sure doesn't look like specifically "Tyrannical governments" here. Are you also saying now that all the English run scientific studies are devious in some way? or even most for that matter?

Yes, it was my mistake. And no, England is no longer a monarchy (I was referring to the past, as an example of a tyrannical government) England is currently a Parliamentary-Republic (Or Democracy, depending on who you consult...but then again, some people say America is a democracy... so)

Give me time and I am sure I can get some examples, though this may be best left to the PMs

 

[Crying Rock]

That was actually a question. as in "Why does this justify the increasing length of an average persons life span?"

Oh, because science was able to flourish without tyrannical governments hindering them.

I've already addressed this:

...it doesn't matter who started or spread modern science, The fact is, this is the main reason you will live to around 75-80 years, vs half that or 1/3rd that (assuming you live a healthy lifestyle).

The governments used science. There for science is the main factor your life wont end when your 40. Science is the main factor that you will live around 80.

as for your other statement. There are very few independently run scientific programs/studies that aren't funded by the government to some degree. Could you provide a reason to why you say this?

Easy, I meant tyrannical governments, like England's monarchy. It's unbelievable how tightly monarchs controlled most aspects of life and industry

Then perhaps you'd like to be more clear with your phrasing "The problem is science and government mixing." it sure doesn't look like specifically "Tyrannical governments" here. Are you also saying now that all the English run scientific studies are devious in some way? or even most for that matter?

You said that there is faith in science, and then you said there was faith in science up until the 1920's. Which is it?

Now I see what you are saying! I would have to say that faith and science is intertwined, however in the 1920s the government began to restrict the actions of religion, and this is what I had meant. You implied that religion stopped "bothering" science in the 1700s, this was untrue until the 1920s, when the government began to force religion to go hide behind the church doors.

could you give some (non creationist) examples of scientific experiments that use biblical reference to support there work? or scientific experiments that use religious faith within their experiments? and how they do, please.[/quote]

"...The governments used science. There for science is the main factor your life wont end when your 40. Science is the main factor that you will live around 80..."

And how do you tie this in with macroevolution?

 

[Evointrinsic]

I think you need to edit that post, the quotes seem all messed up :yes

I have no idea how you got macroevolution out of all that. or even microevolution, hell I'm not too sure how you got anything about Evolution from all that. I was addressing Medical sciences. Medical science as well as various other sciences (that usually work with foods and such) is what I was referring to when I said "That is why you'll live to 80 instead of half that"

 

[Pard]

Evo,

Who is, in your opinion, the greatest scientist to ever live? Meaning, who discovered the greatest discovery, or who made the greatest w/e...

 

[Barbarian]

Who is, in your opinion, the greatest scientist to ever live? Meaning, who discovered the greatest discovery, or who made the greatest w/e...

Good question. Based on their discoveries and/or effect on modern science, this is my top list:

Imhotep the architect and mathematician who produced the first large pyramid, and whose discoveries and projects led later Egyptians to regard him as a god.

Democritus, whose experiments led him to infer the existence of atoms

Aristarchus of Samos, who correctly inferred the relative sizes of the Earth, Moon and Sun, and who discovered that the Earth goes around the Sun.

Eratosthenes of Alexandria, who accurately measured the circumference of the Earth

Ab? ?Abdall?h Mu?ammad ibn M?s? al-Khw?rizm?, the Persian scientist who essentially invented algebra.

Steno (and Avicenna) the law of superposition

Galileo astronomy and physics

Kepler planetary science

Francis Bacon whose elaborations on scientific method was critical to modern science.

Newton Physics

Lord Kelvin thermal energy

Michael Faraday electricity and chemistry

James Clerk Maxwell Maxwell's equations

Charles Darwin - Biology

Gregor Mendel Genetics

Albert Einstein - Physics

 

[Evointrinsic]

My list is Barbarians (although he has added more that I didn't know about)

 

[jasoncran]

algrebra while essential, i have alot of hatred to that stuff. calculus was easy for me, no darn simplification to the level that algrebra calls for and graphing polynomials was a lot easier.

however , i never did the full verison of calculus only the abridged version(business calculus).