What is sin? What is law?

[YosefHayim]

I often here sin defined as "missing the mark".

But 1st John says that sin is "transgression of the law".

Perhaps we can see it this way:

"whosoever misses the mark transgresses torah, for transgression of the torah is missing the mark" 1 John 3:4

Put into perspective of Jesus's saying:

Think not that I came to destroy the law and the prophets. I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For indeed, I say unto you, that until heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law til all be fulfilled.
-Jesus
​

Scripture says that Moses brought the law, but Jesus brought grace and truth.

Paul said "do we then make void the law? God forbid. We establish" and "does that make the law sinful? God forbid. The law makes known our sins"

Sometimes I feel like the scriptures are saying that despite the grace we have an abundance of by which we are saved alone, there is still goodness to the law that we don't observe.

But then I see passages such as Hebrews 10 which says that those who turn to the law have no more sacrifices for sins because Jesus Christ is our final sin sacrifice. And also scripture that says "Those who read the old covenant are blinded, for a veil is placed over their eyes which is taken away by Christ". (I think I may have quoted the last one wrong).

I guess my question is, and I think it would be Messianic Jews who could answer this best: if there is goodness in the law today, how much should be observed?

 

[Gary]

Romans 13....(NKJV)
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


The Law was never abolished. When the Old Testament became obsolete, what basically happened is the Law became spiritual. Physical murder became spiritual murder, physical adultery became spiritual adultery and so on. The physical became spiritual.

The Lord said there are no greater commandments than these. I'm gonna take His Word for it.

Mark 12....(NKJV)
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.
31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

.

 

[Deborah13]

Romans 13....(NKJV)
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


The Law was never abolished. When the Old Testament became obsolete, what basically happened is the Law became spiritual. Physical murder became spiritual murder, physical adultery became spiritual adultery and so on. The physical became spiritual.

The Lord said there are no greater commandments than these. I'm gonna take His Word for it.

Mark 12....(NKJV)
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.
31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

.

 

[Gary]

Thanks.

 

[YosefHayim]

Romans 13....(NKJV)
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


The Law was never abolished. When the Old Testament became obsolete, what basically happened is the Law became spiritual. Physical murder became spiritual murder, physical adultery became spiritual adultery and so on. The physical became spiritual.

The Lord said there are no greater commandments than these. I'm gonna take His Word for it.

Mark 12....(NKJV)
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.
31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

.

If the unsaved love, have they fulfilled the law?

I often hear*

Darn homophones.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Sin would be "ANYTHING" that you know is wrong for you.....
Example, If God revealed to you that chocolate was bad for you and He said to not eat it...
Now chocolate is not bad or sin in it's self but for you it would be for God had said to not eat chocolate.

Sice we have been saved from the "law"
Slave to the law Hebrews 5:1 So Christ has really set you free. Now make sure that you stay free and don't get tied up again in the slavery of the law

Sin would be doing anything that is required of us to NOT do in the new covenant
Now a better covenant over the old......Hebrews 8:6 But our High Priest has been given a ministry that is far superior to the ministry of those who serve under the old laws, for He is the one who guarantees for us a better covenant.

Old law or covenant destroyed........Hebrews 8:13 When God speaks of a new covenant, it means He has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside.

Hebrews 10:9 Then He added, "Look, I have come to do your will." He cancels the first covenant in order to establish the second.

It's easy to get all spiritual or caught up in Religion and Traditions but Sin is pretty simple to figure out when you spend time in the word of God.
Now you can also rely on "Conviction" too but if you are not used to listening for this then, you are better off knowing what the word of God says and learning to judge what is sin for you.....
P.S God Forbid that He evers tells any one that Chocolate is not for them......ed
Have a Blessed and Peaceful Week
Jim

 

[Gary]

If the unsaved love, have they fulfilled the law?

Romans 2....(NKJV)
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.



Everyone stands before the same Judge. When God says He shows no partiality, He means it. Being a nonbeliever doesn't automatically take one out of the running.

That's the conclusion I've come to anyway.

.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Everyone stands before the same Judge. When God says He shows no partiality, He means it. Being a nonbeliever doesn't automatically take one out of the running.

That's the conclusion I've come to anyway..

Gary this is true........
A non believer is standing before the Judge with NO REPERSENTATION
A person who simply believes in God is still standing with NO REPERSENTATION
NOW THE GOOD NEWS
A Spirit Filled, Born Again Child Of God Stands before the Great Judge WITH REPERSENTATION
If something comes up and we fall short our REPERSENITIVE ((((JESUS))) is there to say They are mine !!
It's Being His Blood Washed Born Again Client that gets us through....Nothing Else Can !!

Now that is my take on it, do I believe it ? Well I am staking my eternity where abouts on it....
Blessings
Jim

 

[Gary]

A non believer is standing before the Judge with NO REPERSENTATION

1 Samuel 16....(NKJV)
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”


Romans 2....(NKJV)
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.



The nonbelievers "representation" is the contents of their heart.

.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

1 Samuel 16....(NKJV)
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”


Romans 2....(NKJV)
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.



The nonbelievers "representation" is the contents of their heart.

.

Gary that wont hold up for any one..........One way to ber saved or to the Father and that is through Christ jesus
John 3:16 explains the start or way to be saved........All through the NT you will find that unless a man is born again He will not spend eternity with the Father...

 

[Gary]

Okay.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Okay.

Gary I did not know your choice so I sent them all !!
Bless you brother

 

[Gary]

 

[WIP]

Sin would be "ANYTHING" that you know is wrong for you....

I think we have to be careful with a statement like this. We have an ability to convince ourselves of many things and talk ourselves into believing something is right even when it is not. For example, I might look at a woman with lust in my heart but then I might justify it in my own mind by convincing myself that my feelings are natural. We do this all the time with sins such as sexual promiscuity, adultery, sexuality outside of marriage, homosexual behavior, abortion, etc. Even marriage itself is not taken seriously as it should. We seek divorce for many trivial reasons, none of which were defined by God.

 

[WIP]

I think sin is more than just transgression of the written law. I think it involves any form of rebellion against God in either mind or heart. "For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." Exodus 20:5 NKJV

 

[reba]

WIP wish we had a like button

 

[ezrider]

Gary that wont hold up for any one..........One way to ber saved or to the Father and that is through Christ jesus
John 3:16 explains the start or way to be saved........All through the NT you will find that unless a man is born again He will not spend eternity with the Father...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The scripture does not say that you must be born again to spend eternity with the father; it simply says that you must be born again, or born of the Spirit in order to see the kingdom of God. For if you are not born again, then you remain blinded to the kingdom of God that is now presently with us. But whether we have eyes that we should see or whether we remain blinded to the kingdom, the same is Lord over both.

 

[ezrider]

P.S God Forbid that He evers tells any one that Chocolate is not for them......ed

Don't head to Utah then, because I think the Mormon's consider chocolate a sin; but I could be wrong.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Moses came down from Sinai with a veil, Jesus Christ takes the veil off our eyes.

According to Galatians 3:24 the law is our schoolmaster that brought us to Christ that we might be justified by FAITH.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Sin would be "ANYTHING" that you know is wrong for you.....
Example, If God revealed to you that chocolate was bad for you and He said to not eat it...
Now chocolate is not bad or sin in it's self but for you it would be for God had said to not eat chocolate.

In reality anyone that consumes caffeine or chocolate is a drug addict in my eyes.

Luke 6:42 "Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye."

Don't say nothing then about cigarettes, booz, or heroin if you consume caffeine or chocolate in any quanity. If you do one single drug you might as well have done them all. The bible says if you commit one sin you might as well have committed them all.

Caffeine is a babylonian mind control poison. Its a shame so many dont realize that.