What is the New Jerusalem?

[Tessa]

I believe there will be fish, as we do have a river flowing from the throne of God. (Rev. 22:1) And Christ in His glorified body enjoyed eating fish. (John 21:9-13)

Yes, the walls clearly indicate restriction to who can come and go there. And protection. But then the question is 'from what'? God has made a new Heaven and Earth.

Another question is what people will populate the earth? Where do all the people go that come out of the Millennial reign of Christ? Because it must be a great number as people have continued to breed and have children for 1000 years under ideal conditions. Where did they go when God made a new Heaven and earth?

Quantrill

You have all the same questions as I have. I wonder about more babies bring born once the millennium starts. The reason I wonder about this is that the babies die at a thousand years old. So if more babies are born during the millennium they would not reach that age.
Just who is on the earth during the millenium? Is it just the gentiles?
There is no more pain, suffering, death so how can people die after The Lord returns? Why does Jesus need to rule with a God of iron if there is no more sin? Is God giving some a second chance?
I do not understand the millennium at all and need to study it.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Because the thread 'Critical Race Theory' involves race. And it has been my experience in the past, that most don't believes what God says about race. And if you say and believe what He says about race, then you are full of hate and a racist. Labeled a troll. And you get banned.

This is true of both Christian and secular forums. I just recently got banned again on a secular forum for that reason. And I have been banned on Christian forums for the same.

Quantrill

I was born into a very racist family and I developed a racist slant because of it. When I was away from them, I had no problem with other races. When I was around family, I felt I must present a racist air. Once I got those people out of my life, I no longer felt bound to racism. It is good to be free of them and the racism they espoused.

 

[Quantrill]

You have all the same questions as I have. I wonder about more babies bring born once the millennium starts. The reason I wonder about this is that the babies die at a thousand years old. So if more babies are born during the millennium they would not reach that age.
Just who is on the earth during the millenium? Is it just the gentiles?
There is no more pain, suffering, death so how can people die after The Lord returns? Why does Jesus need to rule with a God of iron if there is no more sin? Is God giving some a second chance?
I do not understand the millennium at all and need to study it.

I hold that the Millennium is a literal 1000 year period which occurs immediately following the Tribulation. (Rev. 20:1-6) The population of the world will be greatly reduced as seen in the book of (Revelation). It is the Kingdom era that was always promised to Israel. (Acts 1:6-7)

On Christ's return at the end of the Tribulation, He sets up the Kingdom rule. Israel will be the leading nation of the world. There will be Gentiles and Gentile nations also who survived the Tribulation. These will enter the Kingdom rule, which is not Heaven. It is Christ ruling with a rod of iron in righteousness. Because, though satan is bound, man is still a sinner. And with all the new people being born, not all will be followers of God.

I am unsure at this time, as to whether or not only saved Gentiles enter the Kingdom. (Matt. 25) appears to say that. But is there a difference between individuals and nations? Is it God destroying the representatives that made up those goat nations? That made laws against Israel and made efforts to persecute them.

Also, here is another factor that will bring questions with it. (Daniel 12:1-3) These verses indicate that there will be a resurrection of many Israelites at the beginning of the Tribulation. Not all, but many. Some good, some not so good. Will they endure the Tribulation and enter the Kingdom? It appears to me they will. Will the 144,000 come from these? It would solve the question of identifying the Tribes of Israel.

So, Israel will be there. The Millennial Temple of (Ezekiel) will be built. And there will be Gentile nations.


Quantrill

 

[Tessa]

I hold that the Millennium is a literal 1000 year period which occurs immediately following the Tribulation. (Rev. 20:1-6) The population of the world will be greatly reduced as seen in the book of (Revelation). It is the Kingdom era that was always promised to Israel. (Acts 1:6-7)

On Christ's return at the end of the Tribulation, He sets up the Kingdom rule. Israel will be the leading nation of the world. There will be Gentiles and Gentile nations also who survived the Tribulation. These will enter the Kingdom rule, which is not Heaven. It is Christ ruling with a rod of iron in righteousness. Because, though satan is bound, man is still a sinner. And with all the new people being born, not all will be followers of God.

I am unsure at this time, as to whether or not only saved Gentiles enter the Kingdom. (Matt. 25) appears to say that. But is there a difference between individuals and nations? Is it God destroying the representatives that made up those goat nations? That made laws against Israel and made efforts to persecute them.

Also, here is another factor that will bring questions with it. (Daniel 12:1-3) These verses indicate that there will be a resurrection of many Israelites at the beginning of the Tribulation. Not all, but many. Some good, some not so good. Will they endure the Tribulation and enter the Kingdom? It appears to me they will. Will the 144,000 come from these? It would solve the question of identifying the Tribes of Israel.

So, Israel will be there. The Millennial Temple of (Ezekiel) will be built. And there will be Gentile nations.


Quantrill

I agree that thec1000 years is literal.
After reading and re-reading several times, the verses you have posted and what you have said this is what I am thinking up to now.
I agree that the 144,000 will be Isrealites, and the martyrs who ate raised could very well make up that number together with the Isrealites who who have overcome and survived the tribulation.
I must read and study again because I am not sure about the gentiles.
I know the court is for the gentiles. It wasn't measured. I find it scary that sin will be around for another 1000 years after Christ retirns.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I agree that thec1000 years is literal.
After reading and re-reading several times, the verses you have posted and what you have said this is what I am thinking up to now.
I agree that the 144,000 will be Isrealites, and the martyrs who ate raised could very well make up that number together with the Isrealites who who have overcome and survived the tribulation.
I must read and study again because I am not sure about the gentiles.
I know the court is for the gentiles. It wasn't measured. I find it scary that sin will be around for another 1000 years after Christ retirns.

I think sin will have much less power and sinners will be known simply by looking at them.

 

[Tessa]

In Thessalonia chapter 4 Paul was talking to a gentile nation. He said the dead shall rise first and they and those who remain will be caught up together to meet The Lord in the air. Which makes me think the gentiles who are saved will be on the earth, but not in the city if Jerusalem.
I have also read (but I can't remember where), that only the kings of these nations will be allowed to enter the Holy City.

 

[Tessa]

I think sin will have much less power and sinners will be known simply by looking at them.

That sounds more hopeful.

 

[daninthelionsden]

In Thessalonia chapter 4 Paul was talking to a gentile nation. He said the dead shall rise first and they and those who remain will be caught up together to meet The Lord in the air. Which makes me think the gentiles who are saved will be on the earth, but not in the city if Jerusalem.
I have also read (but I can't remember where), that only the kings of these nations will be allowed to enter the Holy City.

Could be spiritual Kings/Queens. I expect to see you there Tess. I will wave and bow to you and you will recognize me though you never met me.

 

[daninthelionsden]

That sounds more hopeful.

We will busy doing the bidding of our Lord bringing the earth into obedience by the dictates of our King.

 

[Tessa]

Could be spiritual Kings/Queens. I expect to see you there Tess. I will wave and bow to you and you will recognize me though you never met me.

Yes we better had meet there. I don't want a bow, a wave and smile would be fantastic. A chat as well.

 

[Quantrill]

I agree that thec1000 years is literal.
After reading and re-reading several times, the verses you have posted and what you have said this is what I am thinking up to now.
I agree that the 144,000 will be Isrealites, and the martyrs who ate raised could very well make up that number together with the Isrealites who who have overcome and survived the tribulation.
I must read and study again because I am not sure about the gentiles.
I know the court is for the gentiles. It wasn't measured. I find it scary that sin will be around for another 1000 years after Christ retirns.

It is important to remember that the Millennium is not Heaven. It is Christ ruling with a rod of iron.

In other words, those who are not of God are literally forced to behave. Sin is still present in the individuals. Christ does not allow it's purpose in those who are not of God.

Might I suggest a book that has benefited me over the years? (The Greatness Of The Kingdom, by Alva McClain) Still available. I believe you would enjoy and profit from it.

Quantrill

 

[Butch5]

I was reading in the thread 'The Atonement' and (Rev. 22:19) was being discussed. In trying to gather the context my attention was immediately brought to the New Jerusalem. (Rev. 21-22). And so many questions arise.

Is it the Church? (Rev. 21:9)

If so, it is distinct from the nations, correct? (Rev. 21:24)

It can't be identified as Heaven as it comes down from Heaven. (Rev. 21:22)

The saved nations appear to be outside of it, but walk in the light of it. (Rev. 21:24)

The kings of those saved nations shall be allowed entrance. (Rev. 21:26)

But the wicked shall not be allowed entrance. (Rev. 21:27) Doesn't this imply there are those outside who are wicked, just like there are those outside who are saved?

But, how could that be as it is the New Heaven and New Earth?

Would answer to these not help an interpretation of the 'Tree of Life'? (Rev. 22:2)

Would answer to these not help an interpretation of being blotted out of the 'Lambs Book of Life'? (Rev. 22:19)

I think they would, but therein lies the problem. And at present I don't have an answer that I am satisfied with.

Quantrill

Hi Quantril,

The New Jerusalem is the current city of Jerusalem after it is restored. There is coming a time when God will restore the heavens and the earth. They will be restored and made new.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Hi Quantril,

The New Jerusalem is the current city of Jerusalem after it is restored. There is coming a time when God will restore the heavens and the earth. They will be restored and made new.

I don't remember what video I was watching, but one guy said the dimensions are 11 miles high 11 miles across and 11 miles deep cube. How many mansions fit into that?

 

[Quantrill]

Hi Quantril,

The New Jerusalem is the current city of Jerusalem after it is restored. There is coming a time when God will restore the heavens and the earth. They will be restored and made new.

I disagree. The current city will be destroyed with the heavens and the earth. (2 Peter 3:7-13) (Rev. 21:1) The New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. It's origin is Heaven. (Rev. 21:2,10)

The current city, Jerusalem, will play a role in the Millennium. But the New Jerusalem is entirely different.

Quantrill

 

[Butch5]

I disagree. The current city will be destroyed with the heavens and the earth. (2 Peter 3:7-13) (Rev. 21:1) The New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. It's origin is Heaven. (Rev. 21:2,10)

The current city, Jerusalem, will play a role in the Millennium. But the New Jerusalem is entirely different.

Quantrill

You're free to disagree. But, that's not correct. Revelation is a book full of symbolism. Is a city literally going to come out of the sky? Or is that symbolic of a city of God?

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. (Dan. 2:44 KJV)

The current city will be restored just as the rest of creation. It's not going to b destroyed. Paul said the creation groans waiting to be delivered from bondage.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom. 8:18-21 KJV)

Peter too speaks of the restoration of all things.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:19-21 KJV)

Notice God will make all things new, not all new things.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (Rev. 21:4-5 KJV)

The New Jerusalem is the current city after it is restored.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. (Isa. 65:17-19 KJV)

Notice God said weeping and crying will be heard in her "no more". The implication is that weeping and crying are heard in her at present. This indicates that the New Jerusalem and the current Jerusalem are one and the same.

 

[Butch5]

I don't remember what video I was watching, but one guy said the dimensions are 11 miles high 11 miles across and 11 miles deep cube. How many mansions fit into that?

I've heard 15 miles in each direction. I think it's symbolic. I believe it's the present city of Jerusalem after it is restored.

 

[Quantrill]

You're free to disagree. But, that's not correct. Revelation is a book full of symbolism. Is a city literally going to come out of the sky? Or is that symbolic of a city of God?

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. (Dan. 2:44 KJV)

The current city will be restored just as the rest of creation. It's not going to b destroyed. Paul said the creation groans waiting to be delivered from bondage.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom. 8:18-21 KJV)

Peter too speaks of the restoration of all things.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:19-21 KJV)

Notice God will make all things new, not all new things.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (Rev. 21:4-5 KJV)

The New Jerusalem is the current city after it is restored.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. (Isa. 65:17-19 KJV)

Notice God said weeping and crying will be heard in her "no more". The implication is that weeping and crying are heard in her at present. This indicates that the New Jerusalem and the current Jerusalem are one and the same.

Is Jesus Christ really going to come down from Heaven when He returns? Or is that symbolic too? (Rev. 19:10) So yes, I believe the New Jerusalem is going to come down from Heaven as it says.

I didn't say the Kingdom would be destroyed. I said the Jerusalem on the earth today will be. It cannot abide the destruction that will come upon the earth and heaven in that day. (2 Peter 3:10)

Jerusalem in (Is. 65:18) is not the New Jerusalem. It is the Jerusalem in the Millennium.

The New Jerusalem is identified as the Church or the Churches place. (Rev. 21:2) (21:9-10) It will have connection, though maybe not physically, to the earth and Israel. Israel will always be the leading nation on the earth. And the nations on the earth will bring honor to the New Jerusalem. (21:24)

If you have read what I have already said, you will see that I recognize there are many things surrounding the New Jerusalem that we just don't know. I admit that. But when Scripture says the Heavens and the Earth will be destroyed with tremendous heat, I don't see the current city of Jerusalem or any other city surviving that.

Quantrill

 

[Butch5]

Is Jesus Christ really going to come down from Heaven when He returns? Or is that symbolic too? (Rev. 19:10) So yes, I believe the New Jerusalem is going to come down from Heaven as it says.

I didn't say the Kingdom would be destroyed. I said the Jerusalem on the earth today will be. It cannot abide the destruction that will come upon the earth and heaven in that day. (2 Peter 3:10)

Jerusalem in (Is. 65:18) is not the New Jerusalem. It is the Jerusalem in the Millennium.

The New Jerusalem is identified as the Church or the Churches place. (Rev. 21:2) (21:9-10) It will have connection, though maybe not physically, to the earth and Israel. Israel will always be the leading nation on the earth. And the nations on the earth will bring honor to the New Jerusalem. (21:24)

If you have read what I have already said, you will see that I recognize there are many things surrounding the New Jerusalem that we just don't know. I admit that. But when Scripture says the Heavens and the Earth will be destroyed with tremendous heat, I don't see the current city of Jerusalem or any other city surviving that.

Quantrill

A little study of Greek words would remedy this issue for you

 

[Butch5]

Is Jesus Christ really going to come down from Heaven when He returns? Or is that symbolic too? (Rev. 19:10) So yes, I believe the New Jerusalem is going to come down from Heaven as it says.

I didn't say the Kingdom would be destroyed. I said the Jerusalem on the earth today will be. It cannot abide the destruction that will come upon the earth and heaven in that day. (2 Peter 3:10)

Jerusalem in (Is. 65:18) is not the New Jerusalem. It is the Jerusalem in the Millennium.

The New Jerusalem is identified as the Church or the Churches place. (Rev. 21:2) (21:9-10) It will have connection, though maybe not physically, to the earth and Israel. Israel will always be the leading nation on the earth. And the nations on the earth will bring honor to the New Jerusalem. (21:24)

If you have read what I have already said, you will see that I recognize there are many things surrounding the New Jerusalem that we just don't know. I admit that. But when Scripture says the Heavens and the Earth will be destroyed with tremendous heat, I don't see the current city of Jerusalem or any other city surviving that.

Quantrill

So why do you assume 2 Peter 3:10 means the earth will be destroyed? It says it will be burned with great heat. That's how things are purged. If you read the Greek text it says the elements will be loosed with great heat. Loosed from what?

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God (Rom. 8:1 KJV)

The earth will be loosed from the curse. Here is a Greek interlinear of 2 Peter 3:10.

https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2pe3.pdf

Revelation also depicts Jesus as a lamb having been slain having seven horns and seven eyes. Do you think that's what He looked like when He was with the apostles on earth? The book is full of symbolism.

 

[Quantrill]

So why do you assume 2 Peter 3:10 means the earth will be destroyed? It says it will be burned with great heat. That's how things are purged. If you read the Greek text it says the elements will be loosed with great heat. Loosed from what?

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God (Rom. 8:1 KJV)

The earth will be loosed from the curse. Here is a Greek interlinear of 2 Peter 3:10.

https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2pe3.pdf

Revelation also depicts Jesus as a lamb having been slain having seven horns and seven eyes. Do you think that's what He looked like when He was with the apostles on earth? The book is full of symbolism.

I'm not assuming anything. I believe (2 Peter 3:10-11) "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...."

Current Jerusalem will not survive this.

The earth is delivered from bondage during the Millennium. We are not talking about the Millennium. We are talking about what occurs after the Millennium.

I asked you....is Jesus 2nd Coming when He comes down from Heaven also a symbol? And I gave you the Scripture. Don't in turn not answer my question and then ask one of your own...with no Scripture reference.

Remember too, (2 Peter) is not the book of (Revelation). So, are you telling me it is all symbolic also?

Just because there are symbols used in (Revelation) doesn't mean it is to be interpreted symbolically. And (2 Peter 3:10-11) is not symbolic. Meaning it is in agreement with (Rev. 21:1)

Irregardless whether you see the New Heaven and New Earth as completely destroyed or just renovated by fire, the Scripture is clear that the current Jerusalem will not survive either.

And, the Scripture is clear that the New Jerusalem is the Church. (Rev. 21:2) (21:9-10)

Quantrill