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What is the Purpose of the Law

  • Thread starter Thread starter manichunter
  • Start date Start date
Catholic Crusader said:
This is Gods plan, from the very beginning, of bringing more and more of the world back into his family. Thats what a covenant is: An entrance into a family.
At the risk of seeming too chummy with CC (sooner or later we will disagree on something! :D ), I heartily endorse the above and commend it as a penetrating insight to the "big picture" of what is going on in God's plan of redemption. It is all about covenant, all about God's covenant with Abraham to use Israel as the means by which the sin problem would be solved - this is what it means for the nations to be blessed through Israel.

And the Torah plays a strange and arguably dark role in this. It is used by God to "trick sin" into taking up residence in national Israel and growing to full power of expression. Thus exposed, the power of sin is transferred to Israel's truly representative Messiah and there condemned. The result: covenant membership for all who place faith in Jesus.

And since Torah has done its job of luring sin out into the open and magnifying it to its full expression, and therefore, vulnerabilty, Torah has been retired (with honour)

Paul is deeply covenantal in his theology. For example, Romans 1-4 is Paul's apologetic for how God has been faithful to His covenant with Abraham through the death and resurrection of Jesus.
 
Catholic Crusader said:
[quote="vic C.":63540]...looking for some sort of loophole to circumvent one or more of them. They couldn't do it in Jesus' time and it can't be done now.
Are you saying we are bound by the 613 laws of Deuteronomy?[/quote:63540]
Where in creation do you get the impression I said that or believe that? :-? How could I believe one is bound to something I believe can't be done?
 
Did Gentiles Jack the Covenant

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What happened?
Yahweh did not establish a covenant with the world or the gentile, for the world is fading away. He reestablished a covenant with the houses of Judah and Israel and uses them bring the gentile into the covenant (Isa 42:6-6; Eze 16:59, 60; Jer 31:31-36. He grafted the gentiles into a covenant He made with Israel (Rom 11:1-26). However, we just straight jacked the covenant from Israel and assume leadership of the Gospel, without the Scriptural support for jacking the covenant. Scripture say the following (Rom 9:3-9; Luke 22: 20). It has been the carnal man that has done this.

I just got knocked off my feet. I do not understand how Luke 22: 14-16, Luke 22:7-13 and Matt 26:17-19 are not Rhema to other hungry saints. They jump of the page for me. Jesus was not talking about the communion practice as we believers say, but the Passover meal would be observed post Kingdom of God. The drinking of bread and wine had always been a part of the Passover Festival. He was not doing anything new but establishing some symbolism. This was His desire and He knew when it would be fulfilled, to eat the Passover meal with His Disciples again. It would be fulfilled not by His death or resurrection; but the coming of His kingdom. The cool part to all this is that Jesus could sing if you keep reading the text. I about shouted seeing that the Lord sung hymns.
 
Hi Everyone! :D

Can anybody argue that the fiery Law given to Moses on Mt. Sinai is NOT the universal standard for righteousness? Is it not simply a more detailed account of "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself?

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------
 
Arphaxad said:
Hi Everyone! :D

Can anybody argue that the fiery Law given to Moses on Mt. Sinai is NOT the universal standard for righteousness? Is it not simply a more detailed account of "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself?

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------


I feel you!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen. If we say no, then we are left to our own devices of completing these things or the leading of the Spirit (not His voice) as some would say. There has to be a source of unity.
 
I guess it's NOT going to 'sink in'.

The LAW that is being refered to HERE is NOT that which pertains to the WORLD.

These laws WERE given to a SPECIFIC people for a SPECIFIC purpose.

Vic has JUST Offered that IF you BELIEVE that it pertains to US, then BOY, are YOU in for a ride.

And even those to WHOM this law was offered were OFFERED it FOR a 'particular PURPOSE'.

The Law as offered in the beginning was offered as a TEACHER. It was the PEOPLE that altered this perception in an attempt to RETAIN the SAME hearts that exsited PREVIOUS. They became SIMPLY ABIDERS of LAW instead of LEARNING the lesson that it was DESIGNED and OFFERED to TEACH.

Upon the DEATH of Christ, a NEW covenant was created and instituted FOR a NEW people. Bringing the Gentiles INTO the Grace of God. Bringing Gentile and the Jews into a NEW covenant.

Another thing that NEEDS to be taken into consideration is that those laws refered to were WRITTEN laws. The Word tells us that those that are under the NEW covenant will have those laws WRITTEN IN THIER HEARTS. Listen to what this is SAYING and it's CLEAR that what was ONCE offered as a TEACHER has NOW become MANIFEST in the HEARTS of those that KNOW God through Christ.

This argument isn't even achedemic. It's a wrangling of principles that contradict what has been OFFERED in the NEW covenant. But, if you BELIEVE that you are BOUND by the OLD LAWS, then BEWARE, for you ARE obliged to LIVE by what you BELIEVE. For we also live by FAITH NOW. And IF your FAITH demands that YOU follow the LAWS, then you BETTER. For to BETRAY that which you BELIEVE is as punishable as any other SIN that you commit. For you WILL be judged by that which IS IN YOUR HEART.

I choose to ACCEPT the freedom that we have been offered from the BONDS of the OT laws. That we live in GRACE NOW rather than in a simple set of laws and our obedience to them.

Listen, Christ was ASKED outright WHAT is the GREATEST commandment. His answer, WITHOUT hessitation: Love God with ALL your heart, mind and soul. He didn't STOP here but went on with: And the SECOND, like the first, LOVE your neighbor AS yourself. And ALL the LAW and ALL the prophets HANG on THESE TWO. So in essence, we are NOW bound by ONLY TWO laws. LOVE God above all else, love your neighbor as yourself. For we have the words of Christ that STATE that ALL the LAW and each prophet SENT to tell us OF IT were for ONE purpose; to TEACH those that were the recipients ONE THING; The common denominator the TWO = LOVE. That IS the LAW that is written in the hearts of those that follow Christ in Word and DEED.

Blessings,

MEC
 
manichunter said:
Arphaxad said:
Hi Everyone! :D

Can anybody argue that the fiery Law given to Moses on Mt. Sinai is NOT the universal standard for righteousness? Is it not simply a more detailed account of "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself?

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------


I feel you!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen. If we say no, then we are left to our own devices of completing these things or the leading of the Spirit (not His voice) as some would say. There has to be a source of unity.

Pardon? How can the Law be the universal standard of righteousness? No-one is MADE righteous by obeying the law. Obedience to the 'law' is the PRODUCT of one who is born of the Spirit not the other way around. We are made righteous through faith.
 
Ok, I need a summery of what has been offered so far.

The Law is the standard for righteousness. Which Law? I will assume Arphaxad was referring to the COMMANDMENTS written in stone on Mt. Sinai.

The Law is a "teacher". MEC offered to us the Law teaches us to love. There are aspects of the 613 that teach nothing about love. So I assume what I assumed about Arphaxad's statement.

The Law is a mirror; a broken reflection of our broken nature; our sin nature.

Yes it teaches; it teaches us that no matter how hard we try, we eventually break one of the commandments. Jesus gave us examples in His Sermon on the Mount.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

(He just equated anger with murder. What a concept, heh?)

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

(wow, an action was just equated to a thought!)

So, He is alluding to the idea that some thoughts can be as condemning as the action itself. Can we control our thoughts? Maybe, to an extent, but it's not as easy as one thinks.

Zebra... say it to yourself. Now sit back and try not to think of a zebra for a minute.



Ok, how many times in that minute did the word zebra or an image of a zebra pop into your head? :-D
 
Vic,

to clarify, you are correct in regards to my offerings, I WAS refering to the 10 Commandments. I thought EVERYONE KNEW that the 'additional laws' offered up through Moses and the Levites WERE particular TO the Hebrews/Jews. I didn't know ANYONE would defend 'cleanliness laws' and such as BEING valid TODAY. For we can CLEARLY SEE in the story of Peter on the roof that such laws were fulfilled in Christ. Couple this with words offered by Christ such as it not being what goes INTO one's mouth that makes them UNCLEAN, but what comes out of it. We are ABLE to come to an understanding that Christ CAME to fulfill the law.



MEC
 
Arphaxad said:
Hi Everyone! :D

Can anybody argue that the fiery Law given to Moses on Mt. Sinai is NOT the universal standard for righteousness? Is it not simply a more detailed account of "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself?

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------

Hello Arph! I work in the suburbs of Detroit :smt006

What do you make of Paul's words here?

Galatians 4:21-28 (New International Version)
Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:
"Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband."[a]

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
 
Hey StoveBolts! :D

Hello from Detroit (where the weak are killed and eaten :lol:)

Re: Your question on Galatians 4:21-28: Paul is emphasizing the difference between having to do a thing because of external pressure, and doing something out of a spirit of willingness.

Mark Twain illustrated this point beautifully when he said: "The only difference between work and a hobby is that work is something you HAVE to do." (end quote) (The hobby could actually require more effort than the work!)

Paul also said it this way:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter. (underlines and colors are my own).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a famous story told about a man who lived very contentedly for many years in a certain town until one day the King decreed that no one in the country could leave the town where they were living for any reason on pain of death. So, needless to say, the very contented man began zealously plotting a way to leave his town as soon as possible, which he eventually did. His absence was soon noticed by the local Authorities and he became a wanted/hunted man from that day forward, never able to return to his former contented life ever again.

In other words, the Law is a compulsory thing, telling it's minions: "You must do this thing." and: "You must not do this other thing. Talk about waving a red flag in front of an enraged bull! This is the ultimate example! Any time God tells a nonspiritual person: "Thou shalt not," it's guaranteed that that's the very first thing they will seek to do.

If God gave a commandment absolutely forbidding the eating of walnuts on Thursdays, walnut sales would skyrocket on Wednesdays with people stuffing themselves with walnuts the following day. "But wait!" you say. "Not everybody likes walnuts." My answer: Please realize that's totally irrelevant. Eating walnuts on Thursdays would become supremely pleasurable because God said "Thou shalt not." In short: The flesh loves to tell God where to get off:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. (underline and color are my own).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the main points of all Paul's writings is that before we were spiritually recreated by God as new creatures in Christ, we were "natural," considering the things of the Spirit of God to be foolishness. But now that we are reborn, alive unto God, we no longer have to be "whipped" by the Law like foolish little children to follow the Lord, but now, being "resurrected" by the Lord from spiritual deadness, we're able to follow the Lord's instructions out of intelligent willingness and self-preservation.

Oh, by the way, when I mentioned the fiery Law given to Moses at Mt. Sinai as being the universal standard of righteousness (GOD'S righteousness), I was comparing it to anything that has a perfect ideal such as diamonds ("D",flawless) or gold (24 carat). The basic 10 Commandments are "the gold standard" for righteousness (GOD'S righteousness). And many, if not all of the other 603 commandments also show a very kind and loving attitude toward one's neighbor.

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
-------------
 
Hello from Detroit (where the weak are killed and eaten...
LOL! But their Hockey Team seems to be safe... for now. 8-)
 
Arphaxad said:
Hey StoveBolts! :D

Hello from Detroit (where the weak are killed and eaten :lol:)
Ha! My wife used to freak out every time we went south of 8 mile 8-) Shoot, I used to live 8 blocks outside of Compton Ca (Gardena) back in the 90's

Arphaxad said:
Re: Your question on Galatians 4:21-28: Paul is emphasizing the difference between having to do a thing because of external pressure, and doing something out of a spirit of willingness.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. After all, Sari did pressure Abram to have child with Hagar. Where you kinda lost me is a spirit of willingness. Abram was willing from the start wasn't he?

Drew posting something very profound a couple pages back in regard to the law bringing about sin... and I thought that it made a lot of sense within the narrative. Perhaps you could expound on what you meant by "Spirit of willingness", I'd be interested in hearing from you. :D


Arphaxad said:
Oh, by the way, when I mentioned the fiery Law given to Moses at Mt. Sinai as being the universal standard of righteousness (GOD'S righteousness), I was comparing it to anything that has a perfect ideal such as diamonds ("D",flawless) or gold (24 carat). The basic 10 Commandments are "the gold standard" for righteousness (GOD'S righteousness). And many, if not all of the other 603 commandments also show a very kind and loving attitude toward one's neighbor.

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
-------------
Thank's for the clarification.

Jeff
 
vic C. said:
Hello from Detroit (where the weak are killed and eaten...
LOL! But their Hockey Team seems to be safe... for now. 8-)

Was there ever any doubt? :wink:

Lidstrom-Cup-060408.jpg
 
Hi Jeff ("StoveBolts")! :D

Spirit of willingness? Ok, that's like: "A bad day fishing is better than a good day at the dentist! :cry:

In other words nobody has to tell an avid fisherman who "eats, drinks, and sleeps" fishing: "Thou shalt go fishing often." He does that with a spirit of willingness as often as he can (because he wants to! :D).

On the other hand, that same avid fisherman may go to the dentist VERY unwillingly, with a spirit of great fear.

So doing something with a spirit of willingness is doing something because you WANT TO, not because you HAVE TO.

So Paul is telling the Galatians: "God has done a miracle in your hearts, so now you don't have to try to force yourself to love one another, as believers you will just do it automatically because the Lord has done a miracle of enlightenment in your hearts:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rom 5:5 (Hollman) This hope does not disappoint, because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Rom 5:5 (NIV) And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 5:5 (Amplified Bible) Such hope never disappoints or deludes or shames us, for God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul is also telling them: "Give up your efforts to create a 'do it yourself,' 'shake-and-bake' salvation,' which you've gone back to doing by trying to keep all 613 of God's holy laws with your own efforts. That impossible way of trying to please God is just a curse on you. Just trust Christ to get the job done for you, He'll do it right so you can be sure it'll be perfect. Why sweat and strain,'walking on eggs' all the time when the Lord has already done all the impossible work for you. All you have to do is relax and realize the Lord WILL finish the work He started in you.

But never forget, even though the Lord has made permanent changes in your heart and adopted you into His family, that doesn't mean you can live like a drunken sailor and still expect to be happy and have a good life in the "here and now." "It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not, stupid decisions will always have painful consequences":
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Rom 2:9-1 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul is also saying that the Lord is NOT impressed with anyone trying to force themselves to keep all God's laws when they really don't want to. Just trying to keep rules is soooo impersonal. It's not knowing the Lord at all, it's just trying to follow a bunch of rules.

And HOW is anyone going to work up any love for God? Should we all grit our teeth for 30 minutes a day and keep saying: "I will love the Lord with all my heart, soul, mind and strength." "I will love the Lord with all my heart, soul, mind and strength?" I'll bet $1000.00 it won't work. The only hope to love God is that God has to put it in you by opening your eyes to who He is and how precious He considers you to be. And it's a very personal thing between a Father and His child.

Sinning is thinning,
"Arph"
---------------
 
Let me offer this: FIRSTLY, we MUST be ABLE to come to an UNDERSTANDING of WHAT love IS. Once we are ABLE to understand love, THEN are we ABLE to KNOW God. And once recognized as such, there is little way to NOT see and FEEL His love usward. And WHO could NOT love one that has offered SO MUCH?

What happens with many is that they NEVER come to an UNDERSTANDING of 'true love'. There hearts are hardened to the point that they are UNABLE to conceive of LOVE for the SAKE of love. That giving is MORE important than GETTING.

That IS the purpose of the law. But it CANNOT teach those that choose to REMAIN in their HARDENED state. And you CAN believe that MANY simply CHOOSE to FEED their 'darkened' hearts. Hate, fear, suspicion, greed, envy, strife, etc...... these all impede an UNDERSTANDING of love. and when we READ the LAWS, we can SEE that ALL are designed to ELIMINATE those negative traits in order to instill a 'different' understanding.

And doesn't it see bizaar that we would be offered LAWS that the GIVEN Himself states that NONE are able to COMPLETELY follow them? Hmmmmm......Laws given, but NONE able to follow them? Herein lies the MOST compelling clue as to their purpose: they were given to TEACH, not to SIMPLY blindly follow. For we have been TOLD that NO man is ABLE to follow them ALL and without err.

Christ's statements cannot be ignored. For the SAKE of understanding we have been given The Word. And The Word is NO DIFFERENT than The Law. They were BOTH designed as TEACHERS. Not 'something to simply adhere to', but something to BE understood and FOLLOWED. Once again we face this word follow and all it's implications. What DOES follow MEAN? Once we are able to KNOW what 'follow' MEANS, then and ONLY then are we able to allow ourselves to BE transformed INTO followers of the TRUTH. For ALL ARE FOLLOWERS of ONE God or another. ALL are followers to one degree or another. But to FOLLOW in truth is what we were offered in EXAMPLE through the appearance of Christ Jesus. A MAN that was ABLE, in the flesh, to FOLLOW the Word as given Him by the Father. And offered up to us in obedience and sacrifice.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Hi Imagican! :)

I think you give a little too much credit to Man in your most recent post. We all wouldn't even be here writing on this website without a completed inner transformation by God and the motivating force of the Holy Spirit.

It's impossible to understand something you have never experienced. For example: How can any of us understand God's love if we have never experienced it? I believe the experience must come first, THEN the understanding. Moses understood this fact and very wisely asked the Lord to reveal Himself to him, which the Lord graciously did:
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Exd 33:17-23 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

21 And the LORD said, Behold, [there is] a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Exd 34:5-8 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I can't find anywhere in the bible where anyone ever learned anything about God's love from the Law. The Law sure didn't seem to create even one little bit of understanding of God's love for all the Jews who first received it with such great enthusiasm. However, using God's Law as a basis for understanding my responsibility to the Lord and my strong tendency to rebel against Him, I have then been able to see God's love in Christ's selfless agonizing sacrifice of Himself on that bloody Roman cross as full payment for all I have miserably failed to be.

Sinning is thinning,
"Arph"
-------------
 
Are you familiar with THESE scripture?

Matt 22:

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Rom 9:

[31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[32] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[33] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

And HEREIN lies the ANSWER to YOUR question: Israel became FOLLOWERS of the LAW for OBEDIENCE sake. NEVER 'learning' what it was GIVEN to TEACH. A stiff-necked and 'hard headed' folk they were indeed. Spending their efforts in an ATTEMPT to FOLLOW the law instead of SEEKING out the wisdom that it offered.

Rom 13:

[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now, I ask, could it BE any PLAINER than what is offered in the above statement?

Gal 3:

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 5:

[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1 Tim 1:

[3] As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
[4] Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
[5] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[6] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[7] Desiring to be teachers of the law
; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
[8] But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
[9] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[10] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[11] According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
[12] And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
[13] Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
[14] And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
[15] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
[16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
[17] Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[18] This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
[19] Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
[20] Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

What I have previously offered was NOT offered out of IGNORANCE. The scriptures speak PLAINLY that the LAW was for a PURPOSE. And that PURPOSE was to TEACH 'LOVE'. That the Jews were UNABLE to come to the understanding has NO bearing on the FACT that the Law WAS designed and delivered for the purpose of TEACHING. But the Jews chose to be OBEDIENT FOLLOWERS for the sake of OBEDIENCE rather than ALLOWING the LAWS to BE written in THEIR hearts; LOVE.

I know, when a sumarization of what is contained within the Word is offered, MOST will be UNABLE to see or accept it. But WHEN one has come to the Revelation offered within, THEN it becomes apparent WHAT the 'purpose of' NOT ONLY THE LAW, but The Word ITSELF was offered. and that purpose CAN be 'summed up' in ONE Word: love. For ALL that has been offered in scripture PLAINLY states that NO MATTER what YOUR understanding or deed BE, if it is DONE 'without love' then it is USELESS.

So, read the scriptures offered above. Understand what they offer and THEN it will become apparent IN YOUR HEART that the PURPOSE of the LAW was to TEACH. And the LESSON that it offered was: LOVE.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Hi Arph, and thanks for your response.

If only we all had willing spirits on all matters… Thanks be to God that he transforms us from the inside out and it all occurs on his time, not ours. Jonah did not have a willing spirit and neither did Moses or Gideon, yet they obeyed and God used them in great ways.

Arph said:
And HOW is anyone going to work up any love for God? Should we all grit our teeth for 30 minutes a day and keep saying: "I will love the Lord with all my heart, soul, mind and strength." "I will love the Lord with all my heart, soul, mind and strength?" I'll bet $1000.00 it won't work. The only hope to love God is that God has to put it in you by opening your eyes to who He is and how precious He considers you to be. And it's a very personal thing between a Father and His child.

I understand Arph. Sometimes, just like the prophets, we just may have to grit our teeth, and just like Saul on the road to Damascus, we need that encounter with Christ.

Let me ask you this if I could. How do you account for the words of psalmist and how Paul uses the psalmist in Romans 7? (In context, I’m not going to post all of Romans 7)
In other words, as the psalmist puts it,

Psalms 1:1-2 Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law does he meditate day and night.

Paul also wrote, Romans 7:22-23 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man (Psalms 1:2): But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
Stove,

Nice posts. Sometimes it IS NOT 'easy'. Sometimes we are FORCED to 'grow' whether we like it or not. But ULTIMATELY, it IS for our OWN good. God WANTS mature 'children'.

Arph,

Allow me to add that you are correct in that IF NOT for God, we would NOT be here.

We owe it ALL to Him. And it is for HIS Glory that we serve.

All I have attempted to do is SHOW that the Law HAD a 'purpose' that many seem to ignore for the SAKE of 'obedience alone'.

God has TRIED to teach man since their creation HOW to BE His 'children'. While obedience is to be praised, it is NOT for IT'S sake. That we come to obedience through TRUTH is what matters most. That we BECOME able to BE obedient NOT simply for the sake of the LAW, but that we UNDERSTAND the law and become transformed into what we were MEANT to BE: Who's image in which we were created.

We can DO none of this WITHOUT God. We can LEARN nothing of God WITHOUT His revealing that which we are able to UNDERSTAND. LOVE is one of those things that seems HARDEST to ACTUALLY understand.

But we have been offered that we ARE capable of a 'perfect understanding' in regards to love. For when that which is perfect is COME, then that which is in PART shall be 'done away'. This is a perfect example of confidence being offered usward that it IS possible to KNOW what LOVE is. And ONCE we are able to UNDERSTAND LOVE, then we are ABLE to offer it in return, FIRST to God and then to each other. And I speak here of TRUE love and not that which man has described as love of self. For MOST will say, "Golly, I just LOVE cheesecake", or "I LOVE New York", or "I LOVE Rock n Roll". It IS this TYPE of love that most are ONLY capable of understanding. That which produces a DESIRED effect FOR the individual. That which PLEASES oftentimes IS that which we LOVE and NOT for the sake of IT, but for OUR OWN SAKE. This is NOT 'true love'. This IS 'self love'. And THAT is what the LAW was designed to TEACH: The difference between LOVE OF SELF and love of OTHERS. Loving IS giving, NOT taking. And giving for the SAKE of others and NOT ourselves. A hard lesson to learn in these days and was little different since CREATION took place. For SELF has ALWAYS been TAUGHT as paramont in the teachings of this WORLD.

Once one is able to come to an UNDERSTANDING of LOVE, it IS then that they are able to OFFER it. But UNTIL then, they are doomed to 'self love' that is only able to satisfy the FLESH. And NOT amount of obedience offered in ANY form other than LOVE is USELESS. For we can clearly SEE through scripture that ANY obedience without Charity BEING the source is without effect. The GREATEST gift that we have EVER been offered is LOVE and without it, there is ONLY flesh and the carnal desires of this world regardless of OBEDIENCE to ANY law.

Blessings,

MEC
 
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