What is the Strong Delusion? Extraterrestrial Designers seeded belief in God

[Watchman_2]

"Corroborating texts" wasn't meant to just repeat John 6:39-40....not when the two verses are more simply interpreted as Christ emphatically stating that He will lose nothing of what the Father gives Him and that all who believe in Him will be raised up.

So, I ask again for corroborating texts...other places in the Scriptures that show more clearly these "two classifications" of salvation. If there are no corroborating texts that can be interpreted to show two classifications of salvation, then I'll probably just write your intriguing theory off as your own personal misunderstanding of John 6:39-40. But, if you can show that this dichotomy of salvation is supported by other texts, then I find it interesting to say the least.

Well, that is why I brought up the Bible basics. If you know about our flesh existence in the context of time and purpose, John 6:39-40 falls into place without the need to corroborate further. And, since I am not sure of your level of understanding of said Bible basics, I declined to go into it in my previous reply to you.

But, since you asked [again] for corroboration, it is fair to conclude that you may have never been taught the Bible basics relative to our flesh existence in the context of time and purpose. So, I will give you some of the basics, and you can expound therefrom.

I first direct you to 2 Pet. 3 for a study of three world [ages] of time. In the context of time, our flesh existence is in the second age. In addition, the purpose for this second age is given in v. 7.

In each of us, there are two bodies. There is a spiritual body, which is given by God [body immortal -- 1 Cor. 15], and the flesh body, given by our parents [body mortal]. Though are flesh body is particular to this second age, flesh dispensation of time, only, our spiritual bodies have been in existence in the first age too.

Hence, when one reads scriptures like these -

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
​

one knows that God has based the decision to predestinate some based upon foreknowledge. The foreknowledge comes from their doings in the first age.

Those that earned their salvation in the first age are the predestinated ones in this age. Those that did not earn their salvation in the first age are the ones tested in this second age by having free will only.

It would be unfair for those, who already earned their salvation in the first age, to lose it in this second age. That is why God intercedes in their lives and calls and conforms them to Christ in this second age. It is Christ's mission to not 'lose' any of them. See Joh. 6:39.

I can provide you further corroborating scriptures; however, I surmise that you will struggle with the Bible Truths that I just presented.

 

[Hitch]

Those that earned their salvation in the first age are the predestinated ones in this age. Those that did not earn their salvation in the first age are the ones tested in this second age by having free will only.

It would be unfair for those, who already earned their salvation in the first age, to lose it in this second age. That is why God intercedes in their lives and calls and conforms them to Christ in this second age. It is Christ's mission to not 'lose' any of them. See Joh. 6:39.

I can provide you further corroborating scriptures; however, I surmise that you will struggle with the Bible Truths that I just presented.

Well you cant have 'free will' and get very far from 'earning salvation' . These concepts go hand in hand.

 

[Watchman_2]

I have to agree with this...

If you're right Watchman, you've stumbled upon a "truth" that has eluded the Body of Christ for two millennia, one that will forever resolve the conflict between predestination and free will. That in of itself makes it a bit suspect. So, rather than go on about how ignorant we all are (are we to conversely be impressed with how learned you are?) show that this is indeed a spiritual truth from God's word by supplying supporting texts that we can examine. If it's true, the Bible will support it.

Well, none of us have been alive for 2000 years to know who knew what exactly. I will agree that there has been a bastardization of scripture from the beginning of the church era -- shortly after the time of the Apostles.

 

[handy]

I can provide you further corroborating scriptures; however, I surmise that you will struggle with the Bible Truths that I just presented.

Oh, I don't know...I might just be able to keep up...I'll be sure to let you know if you go over my head, I am rather short.

Provide those further corroborating scriptures, please!

 

[Watchman_2]

Well you cant have 'free will' and get very far from 'earning salvation' . These concepts go hand in hand.

Predestination is mutually exclusive of having free will only.

​

 

[Hitch]

Predestination is mutually exclusive of having free will only.

How about you man up and tell us who your getting this from?:biglol

Why hide your sources?

 

[handy]

n each of us, there are two bodies. There is a spiritual body, which is given by God [body immortal -- 1 Cor. 15], and the flesh body, given by our parents [body mortal]. Though are flesh body is particular to this second age, flesh dispensation of time, only, our spiritual bodies have been in existence in the first age too.

I've taken the time to read through 1 Corinthians 15...and do not see that it supports the notion that our spiritual bodies have been in existence in the first age. Quite the opposite in fact:

42So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.



This passage is pretty clear that the immortal spiritual body is raised at the resurrection, it has not been in existence since the first age.


Since this passage clearly states that the spiritual is not first, but the natural comes first, then the spiritual, I have to reject your notion that those who are predestined are done so based upon any "doings" in the "first age".


2 Peter isn't speaking of any pre-Genesis creation...not sure if that was what you are getting at, but I've heard this theory before. Peter is simply delineating the ages from creation to the flood, from the flood to the present and then the coming day when this world shall be destroyed by fire and the new heaven and earth shall be ushered in. Verse 5 makes this particularly clear.

 

[Who Says]

I am not sure [considering the source] whether to take that as an insult or a compliment.

Nonetheless, while you are living in your fantasy religion, take the time to ponder this -

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
​

Since the predestinated were chosen at least 13,000 years ago, how is it that you don't believe that those so chosen are not born that way in the flesh??

Not to worry, I happened to see something on the news that clued me in about what is happening to me.

They said something about a bunch of people in this town having their minds messed up from consuming acid.

I immediately had a flash, 'Hey!!! There is acid in my coffee!!!'

So you will be happy to hear then that while I was at the grocery store I saw this new coffee called Kava. And it said on the label, "Acid Neutralized."

So anyway I have switched to drinking that. We should see an improvememt in my brain functioning soon, I hope.

 

[Nathan]

Well, none of us have been alive for 2000 years to know who knew what exactly. I will agree that there has been a bastardization of scripture from the beginning of the church era -- shortly after the time of the Apostles.

Is it just me or is anyone else getting tired of hearing vulgar language? There is no need for this kind of language, it is completely unnecessary and is not used correctly. A bastard refers to a child that does not have a father. There is no way a inanimate object can be a bastard. Therefore, this is undoubtedly "cursing" and "profanity". Unfit for a "Christian" discussion site.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

 

[reba]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting tired of hearing vulgar language? There is no need for this kind of language, it is completely unnecessary and is not used correctly. A bastard refers to a child that does not have a father. There is no way a inanimate object can be a bastard. Therefore, this is undoubtedly "cursing" and "profanity". Unfit for a "Christian" discussion site.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Take this as nudge. We dont all have the same thoughts of words but should strive to be respectful.

Nathan is correct.

 

[Sam21]

I've taken the time to read through 1 Corinthians 15...and do not see that it supports the notion that our spiritual bodies have been in existence in the first age. Quite the opposite in fact:

42So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.



This passage is pretty clear that the immortal spiritual body is raised at the resurrection, it has not been in existence since the first age.


Since this passage clearly states that the spiritual is not first, but the natural comes first, then the spiritual, I have to reject your notion that those who are predestined are done so based upon any "doings" in the "first age".


2 Peter isn't speaking of any pre-Genesis creation...not sure if that was what you are getting at, but I've heard this theory before. Peter is simply delineating the ages from creation to the flood, from the flood to the present and then the coming day when this world shall be destroyed by fire and the new heaven and earth shall be ushered in. Verse 5 makes this particularly clear.

Very good post,you went right to the root of the false doctrine, there was no spirit pre-existence according to the bible,so that throws the whole concept out the window.

 

[Hitch]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting tired of hearing vulgar language? There is no need for this kind of language, it is completely unnecessary and is not used correctly. A bastard refers to a child that does not have a father. There is no way a inanimate object can be a bastard. Therefore, this is undoubtedly "cursing" and "profanity". Unfit for a "Christian" discussion site.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Its obvious what I think of Watchman's eschatology, but there was nothing wrong with his choice of term.


1.bastardization - declaring or rendering bastard; "the annulment of their marriage resulted in the bastardization of their children"declaration - a statement that is emphatic and explicit (spoken or written)

2.bastardization - an act that debases or corruptsbastardisation
degradation, debasement - changing to a lower state (a less respected state)

 

[Hitch]

Very good post,you went right to the root of the false doctrine, there was no spirit pre-existence according to the bible,so that throws the whole concept out the window.

Interesting touch of mormonism.

 

[Watchman_2]

How about you man up and tell us who your getting this from?:biglol

Why hide your sources?

The Bible! You should try reading it sometimes.

 

[Watchman_2]

I've taken the time to read through 1 Corinthians 15...and do not see that it supports the notion that our spiritual bodies have been in existence in the first age. Quite the opposite in fact:

42So also is the resurrection of the dead It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

V. 46 only states that parents first have to produce a fertilized egg. Then, God breathes into that zygote/embryo the soul/spiritual body. See John 3:13. Our spritual bodies came down from heaven, which means they already existed.

I provided you 1 Cor. 15 as a reference in the event that you did not know the Bible basic that we have two bodies in one during this flesh dispensation of time. I was not necessarily using it as proof of existence in the first age.

This passage is pretty clear that the immortal spiritual body is raised at the resurrection, it has not been in existence since the first age.

Well, you misinterpret the scripture. Since the spiritual body is 'immortal', it did not just come into existence when your mom was pregnant with you.

Since this passage clearly states that the spiritual is not first, but the natural comes first, then the spiritual, I have to reject your notion that those who are predestined are done so based upon any "doings" in the "first age".

You misinterpreted those scriptures. Hence, you have a errant foundation to make conclusions from.

2 Peter isn't speaking of any pre-Genesis creation...not sure if that was what you are getting at, but I've heard this theory before. Peter is simply delineating the ages from creation to the flood, from the flood to the present and then the coming day when this world shall be destroyed by fire and the new heaven and earth shall be ushered in. Verse 5 makes this particularly clear.

Which flood??

Try reading it again without your tradition-of-man religious input. If you do this, you will notice the word 'perished' in v. 6. Look up the manuscript definition of the word rendered as 'perished' and you will see that it could not be Noah's flood. After Noah's flood, all plants, animals, and races of people survived it. God did not have to create a single thing thereafter.

See Gen. 1:26. God is speaking to the angels, which are the spiritual bodies that He has placed in mankind.

 

[Watchman_2]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting tired of hearing vulgar language? There is no need for this kind of language, it is completely unnecessary and is not used correctly. A bastard refers to a child that does not have a father. There is no way a inanimate object can be a bastard. Therefore, this is undoubtedly "cursing" and "profanity". Unfit for a "Christian" discussion site.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Maybe, you should invest in a dictionary so that you don't make such foolish statements.

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


Before one can build you up, one first needs to purge the leaven of false doctrine from you.

 

[Hitch]

The Bible! You should try reading it sometimes.

I ve read the very small portion you provided as your proof text and I've never heard and no one I know has ever heard of any one sharing your conclusion, as I said yours is a private interpretation, AKA bovine excrement.

You have the last word-

 

[Watchman_2]

I ve read the very small portion you provided as your proof text and I've never heard and no one I know has ever heard of any one sharing your conclusion, as I said yours is a private interpretation, AKA bovine excrement.

You have the last word-

What else could one expect from you but feckless commentary?? Is there ever an argument forthcoming from you?? Of course not!!

You are unlearned and have no clue what is Truth or fiction regarding the subjects presented herein. If your Sunday school teacher didn't say so, it must be bovine excrement.

 

[jasoncran]

What else could one expect from you but feckless commentary?? Is there ever an argument forthcoming from you?? Of course not!!

You are unlearned and have no clue what is Truth or fiction regarding the subjects presented herein. If your Sunday school teacher didn't say so, it must be bovine excrement.

that wasnt nice.