What is the Strong Delusion? Extraterrestrial Designers seeded belief in God

[Nathan]

This is really so far out there that it really does not even warrant serious time spent on it. To say that there is a possibility for people to have glorified/spiritual bodies, and not yet believe Christ is Lord and Master, defies so much NT teaching it's ridiculous. And then to say that not everyone that comes to Him is elected or predestined for it, still yet defies an enormous amount of NT teaching.

It must be extremely hard to read the NT this way. Or maybe it makes it easier because you can say that "this, this, and this apply to me. That, that, and that do not".

Thanks for the conversation. I'm out of this one now.

 

[Who Says]

Unless you think that Christ had a speech impediment, then you would have to accept that there are two classifications for salvation. In v. 39, He describes a grouping 'to lose' salvation. They are the ones given to Christ by God. They are the predestinated/elect. In v. 40, He describes those that seeth Him [as the only begotten Son of God --John 3:16] and believeth. They are the ones to gain in this flesh dispensation of time.

It is an easy read -- two mutually exclusive classifications for salvation.

Oddly enough ( yes, and before you say it, I be odd ), I think I relate to what you are saying there Watchman.

Figured I better beat you to saying that as I have deduced that you are most definitely not a man that minces words.

But I really do think I see what you are saying and that I might possibly agree with you.

I do not see it as separate salvations, though. I see that there is a bride of Christ who together with Christ make up a sort of replacement for Adam as one body in Christ (firstfruits).

Then there are bridesmaids who are obviously not the same as the bride, but are a train of virgins. These I believe to be the ones in the courtyard of the Jews which was curtained off from the holy compartment of the under priests.

(See, it was only the second curtain between the holy and the holiest compartments which was rent upon Christ's death. This then shows clearly that only those who were under priests gained entry to rule as associate king/priests with Christ.)

Then we also have the courtyard of the Gentiles which was left unmeasured in Revelation chapter 11.

Before I go further, is this what you are speaking about?

 

[Eventide]

So Christians are Christians because they follow Christ. But the only reason the follow Christ is because they are His Disciples.

Many think that they follow Christ, but in reality if they would only step back to look at their discipleship, they would realize that they only 'act' like they are following Christ and really are not.

I disagree Nathan.. Christians are Christians because GOD (and God alone) has baptized them into HIS BODY after they trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after they believe..

That's what being born again is... because FLESH gives birth to the flesh and SPIRIT gives birth to the Spirit.

What you say here sounds to me like a 'work's based view of a Christian.

 

[Nathan]

I disagree Nathan.. Christians are Christians because GOD (and God alone) has baptized them into HIS BODY after they trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after they believe..

That's what being born again is... because FLESH gives birth to the flesh and SPIRIT gives birth to the Spirit.

What you say here sounds to me like a 'work's based view of a Christian.

No. No works based here. Please do not read into other threads for a way of understanding this.

The Disciples were born again believers LONG before they were ever called "Christians". In fact, there were over 3000 born again believers added to the "Church" before the term Christian ever came about.

Act 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Act 11:25-26 So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

No works, but if you look at what Christ Himself said that discipleship is a MUST for a "Christian".

This is what the Gospel is all about. A 'gospel' without true discipleship is not "the" Gospel.

Mat 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mar 16:15-16 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

These are two accounts of the same 'proclamation'. Notice Mark records the use of the word "Gospel". Matthew records what the "Gospel" is.

 

[Eventide]

No. No works based here. Please do not read into other threads for a way of understanding this.

The Disciples were born again believers LONG before they were ever called "Christians". In fact, there were over 3000 born again believers added to the "Church" before the term Christian ever came about.

Act 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Act 11:25-26 So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

No works, but if you look at what Christ Himself said that discipleship is a MUST for a "Christian".

This is what the Gospel is all about. A 'gospel' without true discipleship is not "the" Gospel.

Mat 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mar 16:15-16 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

These are two accounts of the same 'proclamation'. Notice Mark records the use of the word "Gospel". Matthew records what the "Gospel" is.

So then why do you avoid the simple question.. must a Christian have the Spirit of Christ birthed in them or not.. and then.. WHEN was the promise of the Father SENT ?

 

[Hitch]

So then why do you avoid the simple question.. must a Christian have the Spirit of Christ birthed in them or not.. and then.. WHEN was the promise of the Father SENT ?

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 

[Eventide]

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

And this of course is within the context of the prophets.. which the church of God is built upon, along with the Apostles.. so obviously the foundation was not laid until the Apostles were on the scene.. just as John 7 tells us that the Spirit (which all those who believe in Jesus would receive) was NOT YET given for Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Why wouldn't you reference that verse.. doesn't suit your needs ?

 

[Hitch]

And this of course is within the context of the prophets.. which the church of God is built upon, along with the Apostles.. so obviously the foundation was not laid until the Apostles were on the scene.. just as John 7 tells us that the Spirit (which all those who believe in Jesus would receive) was NOT YET given for Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Why wouldn't you reference that verse.. doesn't suit your needs ?

Because Im used to the ridiculous DF hair-splitting. And its fun to point it out. For example nobody else is silly enough to split church and congregation.

 

[Eventide]

Because Im used to the ridiculous DF hair-splitting. And its fun to point it out. For example nobody else is silly enough to split church and congregation.

Not a Calvinist who would pretty much by default be Amillenial. It's impossible for Calvinists to be proven wrong so amillinialism tends to stay in the drivers seat, as tulip does.

 

[Watchman_2]

So which is it, are you making this up or did some whack sell it to you?

Hmmmm it just occurred to me that you probably dont know.

So, it is fair to conclude that you would rather infer that Christ screwed up in John 6:39 and had to correct himself in 6:40 than to acknowledge that you are Biblically illiterate, have a reading comprehension impediment, and have not learned contextual Bible basics.

How about this; Can you name any one else who holds this view

Well, there are at least 144,000 out of the tribes of Israel that are sealed with the Truth of God's word [Rev. 7:3-8]. Only God knows how many more out of Israel and of the other races of people who know this Truth.

 

[Watchman_2]

This is really so far out there that it really does not even warrant serious time spent on it. To say that there is a possibility for people to have glorified/spiritual bodies, and not yet believe Christ is Lord and Master, defies so much NT teaching it's ridiculous. And then to say that not everyone that comes to Him is elected or predestined for it, still yet defies an enormous amount of NT teaching.

It must be extremely hard to read the NT this way. Or maybe it makes it easier because you can say that "this, this, and this apply to me. That, that, and that do not".

Thanks for the conversation. I'm out of this one now.

Now it becomes apparent why you screwed up 2 Thes. 2. You lack knowledge of this Bible basic. By way of your statements herein, I would surmise that there are a few more Bible basics that you are missing related thereto.

In order to understand predestination v. free will, one would have to know the Bible basic of God's purpose for this flesh dispensation of time and spiritual bodies within us. In order to understand God's purpose, one has to also understand the Bible basic of our existence in the context of time.

As a side note, you might want to stay out of google if you want to understand these Bible basics.

 

[Watchman_2]

Oddly enough ( yes, and before you say it, I be odd ), I think I relate to what you are saying there Watchman.

Figured I better beat you to saying that as I have deduced that you are most definitely not a man that minces words.

But I really do think I see what you are saying and that I might possibly agree with you.

I do not see it as separate salvations, though. I see that there is a bride of Christ who together with Christ make up a sort of replacement for Adam as one body in Christ (firstfruits).

Then there are bridesmaids who are obviously not the same as the bride, but are a train of virgins. These I believe to be the ones in the courtyard of the Jews which was curtained off from the holy compartment of the under priests.

(See, it was only the second curtain between the holy and the holiest compartments which was rent upon Christ's death. This then shows clearly that only those who were under priests gained entry to rule as associate king/priests with Christ.)

Then we also have the courtyard of the Gentiles which was left unmeasured in Revelation chapter 11.

Before I go further, is this what you are speaking about?

It is not what I am writing about.

The Bible teaches that each of us our born into one classification for salvation or the other. The reason that a few are born as predestinated, and have the right to salvation, whereas, everyone else are not, and have to come by it on their own, is because God is completely fair to everyone.

The bride of Christ are all those, out of both classifications for salvation, who are saved [make the first resurrection] at Christ's return.

 

[Hitch]

It is not what I am writing about.

The Bible teaches that each of us our born into one classification for salvation or the other. The reason that a few are born as predestinated, and have the right to salvation, whereas, everyone else are not, and have to come by it on their own, is because God is completely fair to everyone.

The bride of Christ are all those, out of both classifications for salvation, who are saved [make the first resurrection] at Christ's return.

So you are making this up as you go.

 

[Watchman_2]

So you are making this up as you go.

Nope. See the Bible regarding predestination/foreordained/elect. See John 6:39-40. There are two classifications of people for salvation.

 

[Sinthesis]

Nope. See the Bible regarding predestination/foreordained/elect. See John 6:39-40. There are two classifications of people for salvation.

Actually...No; there are not two classifications of people for salvation.

Jhn 6:39 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jhn 6:40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.​

John 6:39 depicts Christ restoring corporate Israel from its fallen state at that time. Notice the impersonal "it". Further, the word "again" indicates that "it" had previously been unfallen and within God's good grace, fell, and then been restored only to fall again. This applies historically to BC Israel, but cannot apply to any individual human conceived in sin.

Only John 6:40 is about the individual believer. Notice the personal pronoun "him" (sorry ladies;)).

 

[Who Says]

It is not what I am writing about.

The Bible teaches that each of us our born into one classification for salvation or the other. The reason that a few are born as predestinated, and have the right to salvation, whereas, everyone else are not, and have to come by it on their own, is because God is completely fair to everyone.

The bride of Christ are all those, out of both classifications for salvation, who are saved [make the first resurrection] at Christ's return.

Oh WoW !!!

Sorry. I did not think it was something that drastic. I was responding to just one or two of your posts which obviously did not tell the whole story.

You have fun supporting that belief friend.

I can't help it, that is just too funny that anyone could believe such a thing.

It sure is not what the Bible teaches !!

 

[Elijah674]

Re: What is the Strong Delusion? Extraterrestrial Designers seeded belief in God

Originally Posted by Nathan
This is really so far out there that it really does not even warrant serious time spent on it. To say that there is a possibility for people to have glorified/spiritual bodies, and not yet believe Christ is Lord and Master, defies so much NT teaching it's ridiculous. And then to say that not everyone that comes to Him is elected or predestined for it, still yet defies an enormous amount of NT teaching.

It must be extremely hard to read the NT this way. Or maybe it makes it easier because you can say that "this, this, and this apply to me. That, that, and that do not".

Thanks for the conversation. I'm out of this one now.
End of quote:

I agree, these ones are nothing new. Eccl. 3:15! The strong DELUSION has alread got them. They need to check out their 'two' most noted 'false' doctrines that they most ALL agree on for this Strong DELUSION!! Why does satan & his one need anything more????

--Elijah



​

 

[Who Says]

Re: What is the Strong Delusion? Extraterrestrial Designers seeded belief in God

Originally Posted by Nathan
This is really so far out there that it really does not even warrant serious time spent on it. To say that there is a possibility for people to have glorified/spiritual bodies, and not yet believe Christ is Lord and Master, defies so much NT teaching it's ridiculous. And then to say that not everyone that comes to Him is elected or predestined for it, still yet defies an enormous amount of NT teaching.

It must be extremely hard to read the NT this way. Or maybe it makes it easier because you can say that "this, this, and this apply to me. That, that, and that do not".

Thanks for the conversation. I'm out of this one now.
End of quote:

I agree, these ones are nothing new. Eccl. 3:15! The strong DELUSION has alread got them. They need to check out their 'two' most noted 'false' doctrines that they most ALL agree on for this Strong DELUSION!! Why does satan & his one need anything more????

--Elijah



​

Some of it is in that Revelation 20:5 "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

These ones are living just as Lazarus did for a while but they have not yet been given glorified bodies. They are thus dead yet with Christ at Calvary. And just like we now who rise to live the new life in Christ as firstfruits but have not yet been given our glorified bodies, so it is with them, but they are the main harvest if you know how farming works. If there were only firstfruits the harvest would be incomplete. And it is all done one way. They are grown, matured, and harvested the same as the firstfruits are now.

Only at the end of the thousand years will they get their glorified bodies. Death is not swallowed up until the end of the thousand years after the final ones who refused to cooperate completely with their cleansing are once and for all time destroyed and those that did conquer are finally given the life that for them that (just as it is for us now) was before that only imputed in Christ.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Romans 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Romans 4:23 ¶Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

That thousand years is the final regeneration period of this earth. It is not brought fully back to God in complete holiness until it the end of the thousand years.

 

[Hitch]

Nope. See the Bible regarding predestination/foreordained/elect. See John 6:39-40. There are two classifications of people for salvation.

Whut we havv hearah is ahh ;classic private interpretation , with all that usually goes with the same.

 

[warhorse]

It is not what I am writing about.

The Bible teaches that each of us our born into one classification for salvation or the other. The reason that a few are born as predestinated, and have the right to salvation, whereas, everyone else are not, and have to come by it on their own, is because God is completely fair to everyone.

The bride of Christ are all those, out of both classifications for salvation, who are saved [make the first resurrection] at Christ's return.

This statement is oxy moronic, How could It possably be fair for God to predestine some and not others. The entire calvenist concept is at its nature unfair, and survives only because it tickles the pride of those who desire to feel more special to God than those inferiors.