What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

Providentially, God is in the Temple/body rebuilding business.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

Truthfully, according to the scriptures, God will destroy those who defile the Temple of God.

He is longsuffering and patient, as well as merciful.

He will plead with people, and try his best to bring the wayward ones back into the flock who have wandered from Him,

But the day will come when warning after warning to those who through stubbornness and rebellion refuse to heed what the truth of the scriptures says, who continue to walk after the flesh, and because of the deceitfulness of sin, become hardened in their heart, and fall away from Him, departing in unbelief.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Irenaeus was an OSAS Early Church Father...

IRENAEUS (d. 202)

“Those who do not obey Him, but being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.” [Against Heresies4.41.3]

“We should fear ourselves, least perchance after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but are shut out from His Kingdom. And for that reason, Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also not spare you” (Romans 11:21). [Against Heresies 4.27.2]

“It is not to those who are on the outside that he said these things, but to us – LEST WE SHOULD BE CAST FORTH FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD, by doing any such thing.”[Against Heresies 4.27.4]

“Knowing that WHAT PRESERVES HIS LIFE, NAMELY, OBEDIENCE TO GOD, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness.” [Against Heresies 4.39.1]

https://wesleygospel.com/2013/05/22/church-fathers-said-you-can-lose-your-salvation-john-boruff/

 

[MarkT]

Paul says it is very much about them:

"6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes" (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB)

But he also says it's not about them in the way that you suppose I'm saying it's about them:

"5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth." (1 Corinthians 3:5-7 NASB)


See, you still haven't explained how it is that your doctrine can suddenly without warning or precedent change the context of the passage from that of the ministers of the gospel among them being the laborer in the building of God, whose labor may or may not be rewarded, to that of the individual person being ministered to being the laborer (in his own life) whose labor in his own spiritual life may or may not be rewarded.

It doesn't change from 'whose labour may or may not be rewarded' as if Paul's work may or may not be rewarded. Paul said the one who plants and the one who waters are equal, and each shall receive his wages according to his labour. 1 Cor. 3:8 RSV

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It doesn't change from 'whose labour may or may not be rewarded' as if Paul's work may or may not be rewarded. Paul said the one who plants and the one who waters are equal, and each shall receive his wages according to his labour. 1 Cor. 3:8 RSV

It's interesting that you insist on vehemently defending an interpretation for which the passage is not even about. I showed you the passage is about God's fellow workers Paul and Apollos (and Peter-see 1 Corinthians 1:12 NASB) and their labor in "you", the Corinthian building and temple of God. It's not about a person's labor in the spiritual 'building' of their own personal lives as you are defending:

9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building." (1 Corinthians 3:9 NASB bold mine)

Get it? See the difference between 'we' and 'you'? You say it's a passage about the individual Corinthian himself getting, or losing, a reward based on how he builds his own personal spiritual house on the foundation of Christ, but we can see it's a passage about Paul and Apollos, and Peter, and their work in a building not their own--that 'building' and temple being the Corinthians, not their own lives.

If you want to continue to think it's about the Corinthians and what they're doing in their own personal spiritual lives, not what Paul and Apollos are doing outside of their own lives, remember Paul plainly said the passage is about them:

"6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB bold mine)

And furthermore, let's not forget Paul's obvious reference in the prophets to people being as hay, wood, and stubble in the fire of God's Judgement:

"11“You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;
My breath will consume you like a fire.

12“The peoples will be burned to lime,
Like cut thorns which are burned in the fire."
(Isaiah 33:11-12 NASB)

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 4:1 NASB)

That which is burned up at the Judgement are people. Not doctrines, nor beliefs, nor deeds not motivated by the Spirit, but people. And since people are the reward for laboring in God's field and building (2 Thessalonians 2:19; Philippians 2:15-16 NASB), if the people you labor for don't make it through the Judgement you won't have them there with you to be that reward for your labor. You yourself will be saved (assuming you weren't tearing down the temple of God), but you will bring nothing with you to show for your labor in the field and building of God.

All this being true, "each man must be careful how he builds"! (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB), so he can have a reward for his labor in the field and building and temple of God, and not enter into the kingdom with nothing but his own skin and no one else to show for his labor for God.

 

[chessman]

IRENAEUS (d. 202)

“Those who do not obey Him, but being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.” [Against Heresies4.41.3]

Indeed.

Do you think this is Ireanaus' way of saying saved people are loosing their salvation because he says "disinherited by Him" and ceased to be His sons"?

De-salvation is not at all what he means here, not to mention not what he said. All one has to do is read a little of the context (same as with Paul) from which the quotation(s) you use comes to see that de-salvation is NOT what he meant.

"According to nature, then -that is, according to creation, so to speak-we are all sons of God, because we have all been created by God."​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

In this context, every human being (dogs and cats and rocks too) is who he means by "sons of God". Your 'proof' that Irenaeus was anti-OSAS only proves your proclivity to interpret words like disinherit into de-salvation.

 

[MarkT]

Paul says it is very much about them:

"6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes" (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB)

But he also says it's not about them in the way that you suppose I'm saying it's about them:

"5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth." (1 Corinthians 3:5-7 NASB)


See, you still haven't explained how it is that your doctrine can suddenly without warning or precedent change the context of the passage from that of the ministers of the gospel among them being the laborer in the building of God, whose labor may or may not be rewarded, to that of the individual person being ministered to being the laborer (in his own life) whose labor in his own spiritual life may or may not be rewarded.

When you say my doctrine changes the context from what you believe it to be, you are making a circular argument. My doctrine doesn't follow from what you believe. My doctrine follows from what Paul writes in his letter. You're saying it's about Paul and Apollos because 1 Cor. 3:5-7 is about Paul and Apollos, but I'm saying his teacing is not just about Paul and Apollos. You have to read the letter from the beginning.

I already told you Paul is addressing the church when he says, 'you are God's field, God's building'. That means he is addressing all the saints at Corinth together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 1:2 So it means he is addressing many men, many saints, not just Apollos. So when he says, Let each man take care how he builds on the foundation, he means each saint. Let each saint take care how he builds on the foundation of Jesus Christ.

The church is not just Paul and Apollos.

And re. "6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes" (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB) - is about how one should regard Paul and Apollos. ie. as trustworthy servants. Not to be judged by anyone. 1 Cor. 2:15

He says, "It is the Lord who judges me" 1 Cor. 4:4 Do not pronounce judgment before the time (exactly what Jesus said, Mt. 7:1) And he is still speaking to the church when he says, 'Then every man will receive his commendation from God'. 1 Cor. 4:5

Commendation doesn't mean people are the reward. Every man will receive his commendation from God. Every man will be commended for his work, for his spiritual building.

 

[MarkT]

It's interesting that you insist on vehemently defending an interpretation for which the passage is not even about. I showed you the passage is about God's fellow workers Paul and Apollos (and Peter-see 1 Corinthians 1:12 NASB) and their labor in "you", the Corinthian building and temple of God. It's not about a person's labor in the spiritual 'building' of their own personal lives as you are defending:

9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building." (1 Corinthians 3:9 NASB bold mine)

Get it? See the difference between 'we' and 'you'? You say it's a passage about the individual Corinthian himself getting, or losing, a reward based on how he builds his own personal spiritual house on the foundation of Christ, but we can see it's a passage about Paul and Apollos, and Peter, and their work in a building not their own--that 'building' and temple being the Corinthians, not their own lives.

If you want to continue to think it's about the Corinthians and what they're doing in their own personal spiritual lives, not what Paul and Apollos are doing outside of their own lives, remember Paul plainly said the passage is about them:

"6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB bold mine)

And furthermore, let's not forget Paul's obvious reference in the prophets to people being as hay, wood, and stubble in the fire of God's Judgement:

"11“You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;
My breath will consume you like a fire.

12“The peoples will be burned to lime,
Like cut thorns which are burned in the fire."
(Isaiah 33:11-12 NASB)

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 4:1 NASB)

That which is burned up at the Judgement are people. Not doctrines, nor beliefs, nor deeds not motivated by the Spirit, but people. And since people are the reward for laboring in God's field and building (2 Thessalonians 2:19; Philippians 2:15-16 NASB), if the people you labor for don't make it through the Judgement you won't have them there with you to be that reward for your labor. You yourself will be saved (assuming you weren't tearing down the temple of God), but you will bring nothing with you to show for your labor in the field and building of God.

All this being true, "each man must be careful how he builds"! (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB), so he can have a reward for his labor in the field and building and temple of God, and not enter into the kingdom with nothing but his own skin and no one else to show for his labor for God.

False. People are not the reward, as I keep saying.

I know. 'We' means Paul and Apollos, and 'you' means the church. What you fail to understand is that each member of the church is also a temple of God (a living stone), if the Spirit of God is in him, and Paul is addressing spiritual men and he is teaching spiritual men.

Unspiritual men cannot understand. Do you understand that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit? Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own 1 Cor. 6:19 And that which defiles the temple is immorality? 1 Cor. 6:13-20

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you think this is Ireanaus' way of saying saved people are loosing their salvation because he says "disinherited by Him" and ceased to be His sons"?

Read carefully. Irenaeus was most definitely non-OSAS:

IRENAEUS (d. 202)

“Those who do not obey Him, but being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.” [Against Heresies4.41.3]

“We should fear ourselves, least perchance after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but are shut out from His Kingdom. And for that reason, Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also not spare you” (Romans 11:21). [Against Heresies 4.27.2]

“It is not to those who are on the outside that he said these things, but to us – LEST WE SHOULD BE CAST FORTH FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD, by doing any such thing.”[Against Heresies 4.27.4]

“Knowing that WHAT PRESERVES HIS LIFE, NAMELY, OBEDIENCE TO GOD, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness.”[Against Heresies 4.39.1]​

(bold and underline mine)

https://wesleygospel.com/2013/05/22/church-fathers-said-you-can-lose-your-salvation-john-boruff/​

You can see he speaks very clearly of those on the inside losing any further benefit of forgiveness and being cast out of the kingdom (non-OSAS). And scripture is very plain that there is only the lake of fire outside of the kingdom of God:

"7“He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”" (Revelation 21:7-8 NASB)

"27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life." (Revelation 21:27 NASB)


OSAS is a Gnostic teaching. The early church fathers resisted it and were successful in driving it out of the church. Ireneaus's 'Against Heresies' is one of the things he wrote against Gnosticism. It sprang to life again centuries later with the Protestant Reformation to the point of it now being thoroughly weaved into the Protestant Church. Which is why I say we need another Reformation, because I don't think the old can be salvaged--just as the old could not be salvaged in the last Reformation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

False. People are not the reward, as I keep saying.

Well, MarkT, they really are. The Bible is very, very clear about this:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)

"my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown" (Philippians 4:1 NASB)

"prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:15-16 NASB bold mine)

Just as the building a builder builds is his reward for building it, so the people who make up the building of the house of God will be the reward for the builder who labored in that house.....but only if they make it through the final Judgment to be around to be that reward for the builder.

 

[JLB]

IRENAEUS (d. 202)

“Those who do not obey Him, but being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.” [Against Heresies4.41.3]

“We should fear ourselves, least perchance after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but are shut out from His Kingdom. And for that reason, Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also not spare you” (Romans 11:21). [Against Heresies 4.27.2]

“It is not to those who are on the outside that he said these things, but to us – LEST WE SHOULD BE CAST FORTH FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD, by doing any such thing.”[Against Heresies 4.27.4]

“Knowing that WHAT PRESERVES HIS LIFE, NAMELY, OBEDIENCE TO GOD, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness.” [Against Heresies 4.39.1]

https://wesleygospel.com/2013/05/22/church-fathers-said-you-can-lose-your-salvation-john-boruff/

It couldn't be any more clear.

 

[JLB]

Indeed.


De-salvation is not at all what he means here, not to mention not what he said. All one has to do is read a little of the context (same as with Paul) from which the quotation(s) you use comes to see that de-salvation is NOT what he meant.

"According to nature, then -that is, according to creation, so to speak-we are all sons of God, because we have all been created by God."​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html

In this context, every human being (dogs and cats and rocks too) is who he means by "sons of God". Your 'proof' that Irenaeus was anti-OSAS only proves your proclivity to interpret words like disinherit into de-salvation.

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS (A. D. 390)
“He who sins after his baptism, unless he repent and forsake his sins, shall be condemned to Hell-fire.”

Do you think this is Ireanaus' way of saying saved people are loosing their salvation because he says "disinherited by Him" and ceased to be His sons"?

Yes that exactly what he said and meant.

People who have believed and confessed Jesus as Lord, and become baptized, then later are disinherited, which means they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

If a person who believes Jesus Christ is Lord, but then later no longer believes, then this person will show he no longer believes by no longer obeying His Lord and Master.

Just exactly like the example Jesus gave us of the prodigal son.

As long as the prodigal son "left his father house, and the "inheritance" then he was lost and had no claim to the inheritance.

The parable correlates to God as Father.

Those who were once a part of God's kingdom, and leave God's kingdom for the world in which they were saved from, no longer have any part of that kingdom unless they repent and return and are forgiven.


The prodigal son was "lost" and "dead" to the father.


For this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found... Luke 15:24


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When you say my doctrine changes the context from what you believe it to be, you are making a circular argument. My doctrine doesn't follow from what you believe. My doctrine follows from what Paul writes in his letter. You're saying it's about Paul and Apollos because 1 Cor. 3:5-7 is about Paul and Apollos, but I'm saying his teacing is not just about Paul and Apollos. You have to read the letter from the beginning.

...and you also have to read the letter to the end. I'm not using circular reasoning by saying it's about Paul and Apollos. I'm simply citing what Paul himself says about the passage:

"6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes" (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB)

I already told you Paul is addressing the church when he says, 'you are God's field, God's building'. That means he is addressing all the saints at Corinth together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 1:2 So it means he is addressing many men, many saints, not just Apollos.

I'm not contesting that Paul is addressing all saints everywhere. What I'm contesting is your doctrine that says it's about what the individual person does in his own life in his own little spiritual part of God's building. Paul and Apollos are not doing that in the passage for that to be the thing that Paul says they are applying to himself and Apollos for the sake of the Corinthians. Understand?

 

[MarkT]

...and you also have to read the letter to the end. I'm not using circular reasoning by saying it's about Paul and Apollos. I'm simply citing what Paul himself says about the passage:

"6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes" (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB)


I'm not contesting that Paul is addressing all saints everywhere. What I'm contesting is your doctrine that says it's about what the individual person does in his own life in his own little spiritual part of God's building. Paul and Apollos are not doing that in the passage for that to be the thing that Paul says they are applying to himself and Apollos for the sake of the Corinthians. Understand?

What is Paul applying to himself and Apollos? All he is saying is they should be regarded as servants of God. In other words, God's field doesn't belong to Paul or to Apollos. It's God's field. And God's building doesn't belong to Paul or to Apollos. It's God's building.

1 Corinthians 1:12
What I mean is that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apol′los,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”

1 Corinthians 3:4
For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” and another, “I belong to Apol′los,” are you not merely men?

1 Corinthians 3:5
What then is Apol′los? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.

"So let no one boast of men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apol′los or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future, all are yours; 23 and you are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s." 1 Cor. 3:21-23

So Paul is building up the church. I don't know how Paul can say it any clearer; Paul's teaching is not about Paul. He is not teaching anything about himself or Apollos except to say he laid the foundation and another man was building on it. Paul and Apollos are fellow workers. Paul and Apollos are servants. What Paul is teaching the church is each man should take care how he hears Luke 8:18 and how he builds. Each man's work will be tested.

The sheep belong to the Shepherd.

 

[JLB]

What is Paul applying to himself and Apollos? All he is saying is they should be regarded as servants of God. In other words, God's field doesn't belong to Paul or to Apollos. It's God's field. And God's building doesn't belong to Paul or to Apollos. It's God's building.

1 Corinthians 1:12
What I mean is that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apol′los,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”

1 Corinthians 3:4
For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” and another, “I belong to Apol′los,” are you not merely men?

1 Corinthians 3:5
What then is Apol′los? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.

"So let no one boast of men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apol′los or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future, all are yours; 23 and you are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s." 1 Cor. 3:21-23

So Paul is building up the church. I don't know how Paul can say it any clearer; Paul's teaching is not about Paul. He is not teaching anything about himself or Apollos except to say he laid the foundation and another man was building on it. Paul and Apollos are fellow workers. Paul and Apollos are servants. What Paul is teaching the church is each man should take care how he hears Luke 8:18 and how he builds. Each man's work will be tested.

The sheep belong to the Shepherd.

Yes the people who are been built up in this spiritual scenario are all God's people, God's field, God's building.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw... 1 Corinthians 3:9-12

If the people who are God's building because they have Christ as their foundation, begin to defile the Temple because of being taught false doctrine, as typified by wood, hay and stubble, then they will in the end be destroyed by God.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17


What I think we can all agree on is the people that are being described are not unbelievers, but believers.


These believers start out with Christ as their foundation, but end up being destroyed by God.

I don't believe there is any way to deny this fact.

A person believes, has the foundation on Christ, then later becomes destroyed by God.

Somewhere along the way, they had something introduced into their lives that caused then to defile the rest of the Temple.


Maybe a study on what defiles and how defilement affects those around us would be profitable in understanding the danger of defilement.


What we do, does in fact have an affect on those we are to be connected to, starting with our family and those in our Church.

Paul illustrates this in his letter to the Ephesians.

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

Key Phrase:
from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies...

If we are joined and knit together with people who walk after the Spirit and are abiding in Him who is holy, then these will supply edification and love in holiness.

However, if we are connected to people who once walked this way, but have fallen into a lifestyle of sin and walking after the flesh, having become bitter, then what once supplied love and holiness and strength, now defiles with bitterness and ungodliness and immorality.

Paul warned about this very thing when he said... a little leaven leavens the whole lump, put away from yourselves such people.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:6-13

In churches today, we see that the leadership tolerates this immoral behavior and allows those who are on staff to live this way because they are big givers or family members or friends, and the immorality spreads like leaven throughout the church.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

Yes the people who are been built up in this spiritual scenario are all God's people, God's field, God's building.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw... 1 Corinthians 3:9-12

If the people who are God's building because they have Christ as their foundation, begin to defile the Temple because of being taught false doctrine, as typified by wood, hay and stubble, then they will in the end be destroyed by God.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17


What I think we can all agree on is the people that are being described are not unbelievers, but believers.


These believers start out with Christ as their foundation, but end up being destroyed by God.

I don't believe there is any way to deny this fact.

A person believes, has the foundation on Christ, then later becomes destroyed by God.

Somewhere along the way, they had something introduced into their lives that caused then to defile the rest of the Temple.


Maybe a study on what defiles and how defilement affects those around us would be profitable in understanding the danger of defilement.


What we do, does in fact have an affect on those we are to be connected to, starting with our family and those in our Church.

Paul illustrates this in his letter to the Ephesians.

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

Key Phrase:
from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies...

If we are joined and knit together with people who walk after the Spirit and are abiding in Him who is holy, then these will supply edification and love in holiness.

However, if we are connected to people who once walked this way, but have fallen into a lifestyle of sin and walking after the flesh, having become bitter, then what once supplied love and holiness and strength, now defiles with bitterness and ungodliness and immorality.

Paul warned about this very thing when he said... a little leaven leavens the whole lump, put away from yourselves such people.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:6-13

In churches today, we see that the leadership tolerates this immoral behavior and allows those who are on staff to live this way because they are big givers or family members or friends, and the immorality spreads like leaven throughout the church.



JLB

JLB

The OP is about the work that will be burned re. 1 Cor. 3:10-15 There's no benefit to your teaching that people (the Corinthians) are Paul's reward. How does it benefit the church? It doesn't. It doesn't encourage the church. It doesn't strengthen the church. To say they are Paul's loss or gain borders on the absurd. Paul suffers loss - oh no! Another man sent to hell. I'm having a bad day!

Sorry.

It's my under standing that Paul was instructing each man to build on the foundation he laid (the knowledge of Jesus Christ and him crucified) and he was telling them how to build their house on that knowledge. So his work was to instruct the church to build their house on the rock of Christ, but each man is supposed to build his own house. In that sense, Paul the teacher, is assigning work to each man. The teacher does the teaching work and the student does the learning work and the doing work. The result is the temple. This is the building from God, a house not made with hands. 2 Cor. 5:1 "For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." RSV

There will be false teachers and false prophets, but it is not necessarily doctrine that defiles. Many fell away from Paul's teaching which was good doctrine. That's not to say there is no good doctrine, but it is to say people hate knowledge, and they love doing evil. Oh yeah. There are false teachers out there ready to tell people what they want to hear, and they will bring in destructive heresies, and because of them, the way of the Lord is reviled by the rest of the world. 2 Peter: 2:1-22

But Paul isn't talking about false teachers in 1 Cor. 3

It's also my understanding that when Paul says, 'gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble' 1 Cor. 3:12, he is not saying good doctrine, bad doctrine. He is saying there may be imperfections in our knowledge of God, represented by wood, hay, and stubble, but the Day will disclose the imperfect, and our understanding will be refined by the refiner's fire until we are one with God.

This he says to the benefit of the church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There's no benefit to your teaching that people (the Corinthians) are Paul's reward. How does it benefit the church? It doesn't. It doesn't encourage the church. It doesn't strengthen the church.

I know this is directed to JLB, but please allow me to interject here.

I explained that it does benefit the church in that it helps the church recognize who has your eternal interests at heart, and who does not. Ear tickling doctrines are pleasant and enjoyable--like that feeling when you rub the inside of your ear canal with a Q-tip--but when someone is telling you things that don't do that, and which actually run the risk of turning people away, you can take comfort in knowing that they have eternal things for both you and themselves at heart and you can then, therefore, trust them. They are the one's who want to see you make it through the Judgement. For your sake, and theirs. The false apostle is only interested in the present, temporal gain of your devotion to them, and so he teaches things that easily solicit that temporary, earthly gain, but which can not save in the Day of Judgment.

You have to understand two things to get this passage: 1) there are false apostles among them, winning them to a false gospel with their charisma and worldly wisdom and eloquence, that can not save them (2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-15 NASB), and 2) when Paul speaks of the temple and building of God being 'you', he means that as in 'all of you' together compose the temple in which God dwells (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB). And some of who are in that sum total of 'you all' in the building of God will be purged away in the coming Judgment of fire if the person who built you into the building of God did so as for you to be like hay, wood, and stubble at the final Judgement.

"they are like chaff which the wind drives away. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment" (Psalm 1:4-5 NASB)


.

 

[MarkT]

That which is burned up at the Judgement are people. Not doctrines, nor beliefs, nor deeds not motivated by the Spirit, but people. And since people are the reward for laboring in God's field and building (2 Thessalonians 2:19; Philippians 2:15-16 NASB), if the people you labor for don't make it through the Judgement you won't have them there with you to be that reward for your labor. You yourself will be saved (assuming you weren't tearing down the temple of God), but you will bring nothing with you to show for your labor in the field and building of God.

You're confusing the thorns and evil doers and the arrogant with the saints Paul is corresponding with. Paul is talking to those who actually have the Spirit of God in them. So he is not telling them they will be burned. No. He is telling them how to build their house.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What is Paul applying to himself and Apollos? All he is saying is they should be regarded as servants of God. In other words, God's field doesn't belong to Paul or to Apollos. It's God's field. And God's building doesn't belong to Paul or to Apollos. It's God's building.

1 Corinthians 1:12
What I mean is that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apol′los,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”

1 Corinthians 3:4
For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” and another, “I belong to Apol′los,” are you not merely men?

1 Corinthians 3:5
What then is Apol′los? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.

"So let no one boast of men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apol′los or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future, all are yours; 23 and you are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s." 1 Cor. 3:21-23

So Paul is building up the church. I don't know how Paul can say it any clearer; Paul's teaching is not about Paul. He is not teaching anything about himself or Apollos except to say he laid the foundation and another man was building on it. Paul and Apollos are fellow workers. Paul and Apollos are servants. What Paul is teaching the church is each man should take care how he hears Luke 8:18 and how he builds. Each man's work will be tested.

The sheep belong to the Shepherd.

Here's about as simple and to the point I can make the argument against your doctrine (which I know is--in it's various forms--the traditional view on the passage):

"8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each (servant) will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1 Corinthians 3:8-17 NASB)

See, in complete violation of the context, 'each servant' went from being Paul and Apollos, and Peter, and any other servant of God, laboring in the building and field of God outside of themselves in verse 10 to the individual believer laboring in his own personal spiritual field and building of God within himself in verse 13.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're confusing the thorns and evil doers and the arrogant with the saints Paul is corresponding with. Paul is talking to those who actually have the Spirit of God in them. So he is not telling them they will be burned. No. He is telling them how to build their house.

But of course if you believe in OSAS you will automatically interpret the passage through the lens of that predetermined doctrine. This is what is so terribly insidious about OSAS. It taints everything a person reads in the Bible so as to miss plain teachings of plain words right under their noses.

Scripture shows us that a branch connected to Christ can be fruitless and, therefore, cut out from Christ and burned with all the other unbelieving branches (John 15:2 NASB). Where there is fruit there is salvation. Where there is no fruit, whether it once had it or not, signifies unbelief and lack of salvation and the threat of eternal damnation (Hebrews 6:6-8 NASB). Paul speaks of that, too, here:

" they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." (Romans 11:20-23 NASB)

Just so you know, I don't push 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 as a definitive non-OSAS passage. It only becomes an issue about OSAS in the passage when someone, like you, says it can't mean what I'm saying because people are forever saved when they believe and, therefore, the passage can't possible be about people in the building and field of God being as hay, wood, and stubble at the Judgment and being burned up, not saved, in that Judgment.

 

[MarkT]

I know this is directed to JLB, but please allow me to interject here.

I explained that it does benefit the church in that it helps the church recognize who has your eternal interests at heart, and who does not. Ear tickling doctrines are pleasant and enjoyable--like that feeling when you rub the inside of your ear canal with a Q-tip--but when someone is telling you things that don't do that, and which actually run the risk of turning people away, you can take comfort in knowing that they have eternal things for both you and themselves at heart and you can then, therefore, trust them. They are the one's who want to see you make it through the Judgement. For your sake, and theirs. The false apostle is only interested in the present, temporal gain of your devotion to them, and so he teaches things that easily solicit that temporary, earthly gain, but which can not save in the Day of Judgment.

You have to understand two things to get this passage: 1) there are false apostles among them, winning them to a false gospel with their charisma that can not save them (2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-15 NASB), and 2) when Paul speaks of the temple and building of God being 'you', he means that as in 'all of you' together compose the temple in which God dwells (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB).

How does it help to say you might be burned but Paul will be saved? It's ridiculous. And how does this benefit the church? What do you mean by it helps the church recognize who has your eternal interests at heart, and who does not? Paul being saved helps us recognize Paul has our best interests at heart? Them being burned is Paul's loss? People are burned, it's Paul loss so you can trust Paul?

What does that mean to the saints? They should take comfort in Paul being saved while they might be burned? Cold comfort in hell. How does Paul telling them he will be saved show Paul has their interests at heart?

When Paul says each man should take care, he means each man. And what you fail to understand is each man is a temple of God if the Spirit of God is in the man. Each man is a living stone. And the church is an assembly of believers. That's why it is called a church and not a temple. A temple is a place where God dwells. It can be a physical temple - Jesus referred to his body as a temple. It can also be a spiritual temple since that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

N
Edited... address topics and not personalities.

Is Paul writing to the temple at Corinth, or is he writing to the church at Corinth?