What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[FreeGrace]

Saul went to Abraham's Bosom.

Doesn't this go against the ideas of loss of salvation, since God killed Saul for going to the medium??

1 Chron 10:13,14 - 13 So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the LORD, because of the word of the LORD which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it, 14 and did not inquire of the LORD. Therefore He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse.

Plain as day: Saul was killed by God for his rebellion against God. Yet he joined Samuel after death, per Samuel's own words:
1 Sam 28:19 - “Moreover the LORD will also give over Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines, therefore tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the LORD will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!”

 

[chessman]

1 Corinthians 4:5 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 (LEB) Therefore do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord should come, who will both enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts, and then praise will come to each one from God.
...
the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work that he has built upon it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire. ​

Two ways to describe the same day (same Judgment)???

 

[FreeGrace]

Paul wrote these words to the Church at Corinth...

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

You can't "explain away" God will destroy him.JLB

It's not "explained away". It is easily explained. The phrase "God will destroy him" is comparable to the phrase found in 1 Chron 10:14 in reverence to what God did to Saul, which you've agreed went to Abraham's bosom.

"and did not inquire of the LORD. Therefore He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse."

 

[JLB]

It's not "explained away". It is easily explained. The phrase "God will destroy him" is comparable to the phrase found in 1 Chron 10:14 in reverence to what God did to Saul, which you've agreed went to Abraham's bosom.

"and did not inquire of the LORD. Therefore He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse."

I guess you missed the context about the fire and being burned, and not saved.

Here this may help.

But the cowardly, unbelieving,abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I guess you missed the context about the fire and being burned, and not saved.

Here this may help.

But the cowardly, unbelieving,abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
JLB

Didn't miss a thing. Rev 21:8 describes those who never believed. And they will be cast into the lake of fire, just as Rev 20:15 says.

Those who have been given eternal life cannot be thrown into the lake of fire, because it is impossible for eternal LIFE to experience the second DEATH. They are mutually exclusive.

And those who have received the gift of eternal life cannot lose it because God's gifts are irrevocable.

Paul never cited any exceptions to his statement in Rom 11:29, so it wouldn't be right to assume that some of God's gifts are irrevocable.

 

[JLB]

Didn't miss a thing. Rev 21:8 describes those who never believed. And they will be cast into the lake of fire, just as Rev 20:15 says.

Those who have been given eternal life cannot be thrown into the lake of fire, because it is impossible for eternal LIFE to experience the second DEATH. They are mutually exclusive.

And those who have received the gift of eternal life cannot lose it because God's gifts are irrevocable.

Paul never cited any exceptions to his statement in Rom 11:29, so it wouldn't be right to assume that some of God's gifts are irrevocable.

[edited] Romans 11:29, doesn't mention eternal life.

Romans 6:23 does however, and warns the same exact thing as Revelation 21:8

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

[edited] Romans 11:29, doesn't mention eternal life.

We know exactly why Paul didn't need to specifically mention "eternal life" in Rom 11:29. He already wrote about what he meant by "gifts of God" previously in the epistle to the Romans. This is undeniable.

In 1:11 he mentioned spiritual gifts. They are included in 11:29 and are irrevocable.
In 3:24 and 5:15,16,17 he mentioned justification, which we know comes from God. This is included in 11:29 and is irrevocable.
In 6:23 he mentioned eternal life. This is included in 11:29 and is irrevocable.

[edited reference to deleted content]

No where in the Bible do we find any teaching that ANY of God's gifts are excluded from Rom 11:29. Therefore, all gifts of God are irrevocable. While some may deny this, the truth is clear: eternal life is irrevocable because eternal life is a gift of God, and God's gifts are irrevocable.

 

[Kidron]

The "work" that may or not get burned up.

This is a reference to the Judgement Seat of Christ, where everyone will be rewarded "according to what they have done in the body".
That is your body, within the body of Christ.
And what gets "burned up", is what isnt rewarded, and that is determined by your motive regarding what you did, while you were a Christian as per you "good works".
See, Jesus (God), knows the intent of your heart, and so, when you meet him at the Judgement Seat of Christ, you will be rewarded according to what you did "in the body", that was of a pure motive.
So, all those works you do so that you can tell everyone on a forum, or all those works you do so that you get a better position in your Church, .. all these type works, where your motive is to gain advantage for yourself in the "public eye", will be as "wood, hay, and stubble", and will be burned in the refining fire that IS the Judgment Seat of Christ.

 

[JLB]

We know exactly why Paul didn't need to specifically mention "eternal life" in Rom 11:29. He already wrote about what he meant by "gifts of God" previously in the epistle to the Romans. This is undeniable.

In 1:11 he mentioned spiritual gifts. They are included in 11:29 and are irrevocable.
In 3:24 and 5:15,16,17 he mentioned justification, which we know comes from God. This is included in 11:29 and is irrevocable.
In 6:23 he mentioned eternal life. This is included in 11:29 and is irrevocable.

What has been proven to be an unbiblical theory is the claim that eternal life is revocable. The exact opposite is taught in Scripture.

No where in the Bible do we find any teaching that ANY of God's gifts are excluded from Rom 11:29. Therefore, all gifts of God are irrevocable. While some may deny this, the truth is clear: eternal life is irrevocable because eternal life is a gift of God, and God's gifts are irrevocable.

Here is what Romans 11:29 says -

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Is the word eternal life mentioned in this scripture?

Here is what Romans 6:23 says -

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Is the word irrevocable mentioned in this verse?

What we know, because both verse's are written out, for all to see and examine, is eternal life is not mentioned in Romans 11:29, nor is irrevocable mentioned in Romans 6:23.


Here is what you expect us to believe, and to have over-rule every other scripture in the new testament about this subject.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is what Romans 11:29 says -

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Is the word eternal life mentioned in this scripture?

This is totally unnecessary. Rom 6:23 describes eternal life as a gift of God.
Rom 11:29 teaches that God's gifts are irrevocable.
Therefore, eternal life is irrevocable.

What we know, because both verse's are written out, for all to see and examine, is eternal life is not mentioned in Romans 11:29, nor is irrevocable mentioned in Romans 6:23.

Simple logic refutes your dodging of the clear issue.

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C.

A = eternal life
B = gift of God
C= God's gifts are irrevocable.

Therefore, eternal life is irrevocable.

Any other view is illogical and certainly unbiblical.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
JLB

Why would anyone line out everything in Rom 6:23 except "the gift of God"? That makes no sense.

The phrase "the gift of God IS eternal life" is significant, and yet it was lined out for no reason, other than to deny the clear implication of what Paul wrote.

No one has shown that Paul meant any other thing in Rom 11:29. So which gift specifically is irrevocable? Please answer.

 

[JLB]

This is totally unnecessary. Rom 6:23 describes eternal life as a gift of God.

Romans 6:23 shows us the two opposing cornerstones of truth,[edited]

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Christians who become slaves of God and of righteousness, have their fruit unto holiness, and in the end eternal life. verse 22

• just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Paul exhorts these Romans Christians who live in the vastly immoral city of Rome, to... now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Because - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


Christians who choose to become a slave of sin, and present their members as slaves of sin, will in the end reap the wages of a sinful life, which is death.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6;15-23

• Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

The end result of a life spent as a slave unto God, and having fruit unto holiness is eternal life.

The wages of a life spent gratifying the sinful flesh, practicing the lust's thereof is death... not inheriting the kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Simple logic refutes your dodging of the clear issue.

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C.

A = eternal life
B = gift of God
C= God's gifts are irrevocable.

Therefore, eternal life is irrevocable.

Any other view is illogical and certainly unbiblical.

Simple if you ignore the truth.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Romans 6:23 shows us the two opposing cornerstones of truth, one of which you completely ignore.

I've never ignored any part of Rom 6:23. Eternal life is a gift of God for those who are in Christ Jesus. What's to ignore?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Right. And all of humanity has been born spiritually dead, because of Adam's sin, which Paul had previously noted in ch 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

Christians who become slaves of God and of righteousness, have their fruit unto holiness, and in the end eternal life. verse 22

just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Paul exhorts these Romans Christians who live in the vastly immoral city of Rome, to... now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Because - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Since all of humanity is born spiritually dead, it is clear that your view has misunderstood v.22.

Christians who choose to become a slave of sin, and present their members as slaves of sin, will in the end reap the wages of a sinful life, which is death.

This is impossible, since Christians (according to biblical standards) HAVE eternal life in them. And the very words "eternal life" means exactly that.

So, those who HAVE eternal life cannot experience the second death, or the lake of fire. That is an impossibility.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6;15-23

The phrase "and the end" seems to trip up your understanding of what Paul wrote. He wasn't saying that eternal life is only received at the end of one's life, as your view seems to want it to be. Because, if he was saying that, he would have been in conflict with what Jesus said in John 5:24:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

[edited] Instead, Paul was simply referring to the experience of eternity will occur at the end of our lives. Not that we finally receive eternal life.

Jesus' words are crystal clear: WHEN one believes, they HAVE eternal life. And will NEVER come into condemnation.

Now, if salvation can be lost, then there must be a verse that tells us exactly HOW one can lose what is irrevocable. Good luck with that.

The end result of a life spent as a slave unto God, and having fruit unto holiness is eternal life.

The wages of a life spent gratifying the sinful flesh, practicing the lust's thereof is death... not inheriting the kingdom of God.
JLB

Correct. But it's just that we differ greatly on what it means to "not inherit" the kingdom. It certainly does not mean "cannot get into the kingdom".

 

[JLB]

I've never ignored any part of Rom 6:23. Eternal life is a gift of God for those who are in Christ Jesus. What's to ignore?

The part that says the wages of sin is death.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Christians who become slaves of God and of righteousness, have their fruit unto holiness, and in the end eternal life. verse 22

• just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Paul exhorts these Romans Christians who live in the vastly immoral city of Rome, to... now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Because - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


Christians who choose to become a slave of sin, and present their members as slaves of sin, will in the end reap the wages of a sinful life, which is death.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6;15-23

• Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

The end result of a life spent as a slave unto God, and having fruit unto holiness is eternal life.

The wages of a life spent gratifying the sinful flesh, practicing the lust's thereof is death... not inheriting the kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

The above does NOT mean that the second death will not be in "our" collective presence, as Rev. 14:10 shows.

Revelation 14:
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

How close of a proximity is "in the presence of?" I'd have to venture "immediate" presence, not somewhere else where it can't be noted. (this is incidentally a position held by at least one major camp of older orthodoxy-not RCC, fwiw and a position I happen to agree with them on based partly on the above scriptures.)

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I've never ignored any part of Rom 6:23. Eternal life is a gift of God for those who are in Christ Jesus. What's to ignore?"

The part that says the wages of sin is death.

How have I ignored the FACT that the wages of sin is death? In FACT, all humans are sinners, per Rom 3:9 and 23:
9 - What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin
23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

From these 2 verses, we see that everyone has already received spiritual death from the wages of our sin.

The good news (gospel) is that Christ died for our sins, thereby removing the penalty of our sins.

So, the first part of Rom 6:23 is the condition of ALL humans before faith in Christ. But, when one believes in Christ, they receive eternal life and are NO LONGER under the penalty of sin.

So, let me ask: if Christ died for all sin, how can any believer ever end up under the penalty of sin again?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Yes, that is exactly what the verse says.

Christians who become slaves of God and of righteousness, have their fruit unto holiness, and in the end eternal life. verse 22

As I have patiently explained, "in the end eternal life" is a reference to finally experiencing eternity after our earthly life is over.

Jesus taught that those who believe HAVE eternal life in the present. That's why He used the present tense.

just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Paul exhorts these Romans Christians who live in the vastly immoral city of Rome, to... now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Because - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

All of this sounds like works for salvation, which I strongly reject, as it is not taught in Scripture. We are saved by grace, not by works.

Christians who choose to become a slave of sin, and present their members as slaves of sin, will in the end reap the wages of a sinful life, which is death.

Just think about this for a sec. If that were true, then Christ's death on the cross was totally meaningless and a waste of time. He really didn't pay the penalty of our sins if that were true.

What is clear is a real significant misunderstanding of Scripture.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6;15-23

See above.

 

[JLB]

How have I ignored the FACT that the wages of sin is death? In FACT, all humans are sinners, per Rom 3:9 and 23:
9 - What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin
23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 6 and it's context is speaking to those who have heard and believed the Gospel, in which they as believers are exhorted to no longer sin, as the consequences of continuing to live a life of practicing the works of the flesh, and fulfilling it's lusts is death.
Eternal death.

here's the language and context of Romans 6, that leads to Pauls statement in verse 23:

Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

The context is written to Christians who are under grace.

Claiming that verse 23, with the phrase...For the wages of sin is death... is referring to unbelievers is unbiblical and irresponsible.

Paul goes on to show them how to begin use there new found power and authority to get free from a habitual lifestyle of doing what their flesh desired to do, and being it's slave, to that of practicing the righteous life that we are all called to walk in.

For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:15-23

Paul exhorts these Christians living in Rome, which was one of the most immoral cities to live in at that time, to become slaves of God and righteousness.

Most Christians in Rome were of the slave population, where there were three basic classes of people:

Citizens
Freedmen
Slaves

There were sub-categories of these but for the most part, it was the poor in Rome who were turning to the Lord, whose mindset was that of a slave, of which Paul appealed to this slave mindset here in Romans 6.

Romans 6:23 refers to the Christians, to whom Paul was writing.


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?



whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness... For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Romans 6 and it's context is speaking to those who have heard and believed the Gospel, in which they as believers are exhorted to no longer sin, as the consequences of continuing to live a life of practicing the works of the flesh, and fulfilling it's lusts is death.
Eternal death.

Eternal death is the end point of everyone in the human race. Until one believes in Christ and receives eternal life. At which point, they WILL NEVER PERISH, according to Jesus, in John 3:16, 5:24 and 10:28.

here's the language and context of Romans 6, that leads to Pauls statement in verse 23:

Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

The context is written to Christians who are under grace.

Claiming that verse 23, with the phrase...For the wages of sin is death... is referring to unbelievers is unbiblical and irresponsible.

This idea has not been substantiated from Scripture. Opinions about what Scripture says doesn't equal what Scripture says.

Please address my previous point about how sin in the life of any believer can result in eternal death, since Christ died for ALL sins and paid the penalty for ALL sins.

Therefore, it's not possible for any believer to be in danger of eternal death.

Eternal life cannot die. That is impossible.

 

[JLB]

This idea has not been substantiated from Scripture. Opinions about what Scripture says doesn't equal what Scripture says.

Please address my previous point about how sin in the life of any believer can result in eternal death, since Christ died for ALL sins and paid the penalty for ALL sins.

Therefore, it's not possible for any believer to be in danger of eternal death.

Eternal life cannot die. That is impossible.

This is scripture, and it plainly shows the context of Paul's letter.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:15-23

Paul is addressing Christians at Rome, to whom he is writing.

Paul is not writing to the world of unbelievers.

Examine these verse for yourself:

• Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

• Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
• I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Paul exhorts these Romans Christians, not to live sinful lives.

...you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The scriptures are clear, as Paul repeats this exhortation over and over.

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

This is scripture, and it plainly shows the context of Paul's letter.

Of course we all use Scripture. That's not the issue.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:15-23

Paul is addressing Christians at Rome, to whom he is writing.

Paul is not writing to the world of unbelievers.

Examine these verse for yourself:

• Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

• Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
• I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Paul exhorts these Romans Christians, not to live sinful lives.

Yes, of course he did.

...you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The scriptures are clear, as Paul repeats this exhortation over and over.

It is clear how much we disagree on how to understand Rom 6:23. Paul is contrasting the life of the unbeliever, who's wages of sin is (eternal) death with that of the believer, who has been given the gift of God, which is eternal life. Which is irrevocable, according to Rom 11:29.

]who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8JLB

OK, back to that passage. I've already explained it. And Rom 3:20 refutes any idea that anyone can receive eternal life by "doing good".

Eternal life is received on the basis of faith in Christ, apart from any works.

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I don't find any mention of "doing good" in any of these verses, but I DO FIND that every verse says that eternal life is received by faith.

So I continue to not understand why Rom 2:6-8 keeps being quoted, esp since Rom 3:20 shows that no one will receive eternal life based on keeping the Law (doing good).

The argument for your position has not been advanced 1 inch. Please explain how Rom 3:20 doesn't effect your view of Rom 2:6-8 because I don't see how it doesn't. I think it refutes your view.