What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

well i finally got your attention.. you just agreed with me our salvation is secure in Christ . how much faith does it take to keep our salvation ?

I see you disregard yet another scripture, and the plain truth it teaches...you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

...obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9 LEB

In this life, you can not lose what you have not yet obtained.

Now we have salvation by faith... which if we lose the faith that is the substance of that salvation, then in the end we won't receive the salvation that comes to those who have faith.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...our salvation is secure in Christ . how much faith does it take to keep our salvation ?

I know you're talking to JLB, but if you don't mind my interjection...

Having faith, and as a result, having the Holy Spirit, is like being pregnant...either you is, or you ain't. For those who are pregnant, it then becomes a matter of how far along you are in your faith and how much it's showing.

"49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly." (1 Corinthians 15:49 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you just agreed with me our salvation is secure in Christ

And I believe without a shadow of a doubt JLB agrees with that. He's saying, like I'm saying, that you have to stay in Christ to have that security. Right, JLB? There is no security of salvation for the person who has left the faith. Security is secured through faith. The question is, are you going to stay in the faith that secures the hope of salvation?

 

[chessman]

According to the passage, how is faith tested?

If it is necessary for a person's faith to be tested in order to show it's genuine, it is tested by various distresses/trials/fire. Notice, it's not always necessary to be tested though. But the point is, genuine faith resultS in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

What is the proof of the faith that secures the promise of salvation?

Promise? Where's that appear in this passage? It doesn't. Peter says that through genuine faith (believing now) we have obtained/received the salvation of our souls through the power of God. Salvation is reserved for our bodies in the future. And that hope is imperishable, undefiled and unfading.

What's Peter's point ....?

That God caused us (our souls) to be born again into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in Heaven for you who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed (bodily) in the last time.

 

[JLB]

And I believe without a shadow of a doubt JLB agrees with that. He's saying, like I'm saying, that you have to stay in Christ to have that security. Right, JLB? There is no security of salvation for the person who has left the faith. Security is secured through faith. The question is, are you going to stay in the faith that secures the hope of salvation?

 

[MarkT]

I'll show you what's wrong with your interpretation. Read the bold parts:

5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; each (servant through whom you believed) will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another (fellow worker) is building on it.

See, up to this point it's about servants of God working in God's field and building, the Corinthians, and the servant's reward for doing so.

But then all of a sudden you break context and switch from this being about "fellow workers" laboring in the field and building of the Corinthians to the individual Corinthian laboring on himself. "Each man" suddenly becomes the field and building itself, not the "servant" and "worker" laboring in that field and building that it had been up to this point:

But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.

In context, the 'each man' is still referring to God's servants and fellow workers laboring in the field and building of the Corinthians, but your interpretation suddenly ignores the context and without any context to do so changes "God's fellow workers" in vs. 9 to the individual Corinthian himself and his own labor on himself.

Up to a point Paul is talking about himself and Apollos, saying we are fellow workers. But then he goes on to say "you are God's field, his building". So now he is talking to the church, and he is instructing each man to take care how he builds on the foundation of Christ.

Where does Paul say the church is his wage?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But the point is, genuine faith resultS in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

No, the PROOF of your faith being genuine results in praise and glory and honor.

"7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:7 NASB)

So I ask again, "what is the proof of a genuine faith?"

Promise? Where's that appear in this passage? It doesn't. Peter says that through genuine faith (believing now) we have obtained/received the salvation of our souls through the power of God. Salvation is reserved for our bodies in the future. And that hope is imperishable, undefiled and unfading.

Yes, you are saved now, but there is the fullness of salvation yet to be revealed. Until then we have it by way of promise. Which we secure through believing. If you stop believing you no longer have the hope of "a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB). The power of God toward the promise comes through faith. Without that faith you do not have that which it secures.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where does Paul say the church is his wage?

Believers for whom he labored, and their success in enduring to the end, are his reward for his labor, his crown...
1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB and Philippians 2:15-16 NASB, and John talks about it in 2 John 1:8 KJV.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Up to a point Paul is talking about himself and Apollos, saying we are fellow workers. But then he goes on to say "you are God's field, his building". So now he is talking to the church, and he is instructing each man to take care how he builds on the foundation of Christ.

But what that does is make your interpretation inapplicable to Paul and Apollos and every other servant of God among them, and only applicable to the individual Corinthian himself, alone.

That's one of the reasons I resist your interpretation which is the general interpretation of the church. I found that other pointed scriptures that address all the factors in the analogy directly and equally, and not just in part, helps us to know what Paul--who was thoroughly educated in the scriptures and used them often--was talking about.

 

[chessman]

If you stop believing you no longer have the hope of "a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB).

1 Peter 1:5 doesn't say anything like that.
Nope, never even mentions "if you stop believing". I guess you think people are just supposed to take your word for it. I don't.

again, "what is the proof of a genuine faith?"

The fact that God caused our souls to be born again. Yep! That's the proof.

1 Peter 1:3,9 (LEB) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ... obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. ​

 

[MarkT]

His reward for his labor, his crown...
1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB and Philippians 2:15-16 NASB, and John talks about it in 2 John 1:8 KJV.

I don't see anything about the church being the reward. If anything, the church is working for the reward/ the inheritance. Colossians 3:24

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The fact that God caused our souls to be born again. Yep! That's the proof.

1 Peter 1:3,9 (LEB) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ... obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Lol. No, that's not the proof of genuine, saving faith. Consider the passage carefully. What is it in trials and temptations that shows your faith to be genuine? Think, chessman, think. You know the answer.

1 Peter 1:5 doesn't say anything like that.
Nope, never even mentions "if you stop believing". I guess you think people are just supposed to take your word for it. I don't.

Okay. Then what you're saying is you are protected by the power of God without faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, in direct contradiction to what Peter says:

5 who are protected by the power of God THROUGH FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB bold capitals mine)

5who are protected by the power of God WITHOUT FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 emboldened addition by me)

What you say has it so Peter's words are meaningless by saying you have the protection of God's power NOT through faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't see anything about the church being the reward. If anything, the church is working for the reward/ the inheritance. Colossians 3:24

Well, I can't make you see the plain words of scripture. They don't even need interpretation, but they do need eyes that are not veiled by a preconceived doctrine that prevents them from seeing those plain words:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB bold and underline mine)

See? The church is Paul's (and his buddies) crown of exultation, their reward, at the Lords' coming.
Compare that to what is worked on, and the reward they will receive, at the day of Christ's return and fiery Judgment that he speaks of in the passage we are debating:

"13 each man’s work (in the building and field of God) will become evident; for the day (of his coming) will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains (through the day of his coming and fiery Judgment), he will receive a reward." (1 Corinthians 3:13-14 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

 

[MarkT]

Well, I can't make you see the plain words of scripture. They don't even need interpretation, but they do need eyes that are not veiled by a preconceived doctrine that prevents them from seeing those plain words:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB bold and underline mine)

See? The church is Paul's (and his buddies) crown of exultation, their reward, at the Lords' coming.
Compare that to what is worked on, and the reward they will receive, at the day of Christ's return and fiery Judgment that he speaks of in the passage we are debating:

"13 each man’s work (in the building and field of God) will become evident; for the day (of his coming) will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains (through the day of his coming and fiery Judgment), he will receive a reward." (1 Corinthians 3:13-14 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

I don't understand. Paul is like a father to his children.

1 Thessalonians 2:11
for you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you

He sees them growing up. He is proud of his children. They are his hope, his pride and joy. They are his crown of boasting before our Lord at his coming. When are they referred to as a wage? You might say they are Paul's work, but never Paul's wage. How should the Thessalonians take it? We are Paul's wage? Nonsense.

 

[MarkT]

But what that does is make your interpretation inapplicable to Paul and Apollos and every other servant of God among them, and only applicable to the individual Corinthian himself, alone.

That's one of the reasons I resist your interpretation which is the general interpretation of the church. I found that other pointed scriptures that address all the factors in the analogy directly and equally, and not just in part, helps us to know what Paul--who was thoroughly educated in the scriptures and used them often--was talking about.

I know. Paul is using the language of the proverbs. Paul sees himself as a father instructing his children Pr. 4:1-5

Hear, O sons, a father’s instruction,
and be attentive, that you may gain insight;
2 for I give you good precepts:
do not forsake my teaching.
3 When I was a son with my father,
tender, the only one in the sight of my mother,
4 he taught me, and said to me,
“Let your heart hold fast my words;
keep my commandments, and live;
5 do not forget, and do not turn away from the words of my mouth.
Get wisdom; get insight.

If they do what he said, the Day will reveal it and their work will survive. It's a matter of hearing and understanding the word of God. If we build on the foundation with the wisdom of God, we will gain knowledge and understanding. If we keep his commandments, we will live.

 

[JLB]

Well, I can't make you see the plain words of scripture. They don't even need interpretation, but they do need eyes that are not veiled by a preconceived doctrine that prevents them from seeing those plain words:

:amen

 

[chessman]

Think, chessman, think

Read it Jethro, read it.

1 Peter 1:3, 9 (LEB) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ... obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. ​

We have already obtained the salvation of our souls. Just waiting on our body's salvation at Christ's second coming. Sure, some have various distresses and trials as we await His return for our glorified bodies.

Then what you're saying is you are protected by the power of God without faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time

Nope, that's not what I said at all. I said nothing about "without faith". Edited

What you say has it so Peter's words are meaningless.

Nope. What I said is correct. It is God's power that has saved our souls already.
Edited

What is it in trials and temptations that shows your faith to be genuine.

As I said (quoting Peter correctly) it is not always necessary for any trials and distress in order to show genuine faith. One more time:

1 Peter 1:6 (LEB) in which you rejoice greatly, although now for a short time, if necessary, you are distressed by various trials,

​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We have already obtained the salvation of our souls. Just waiting on our body's salvation at Christ's second coming.

That's not what's in debate. The person who believes is saved. OSAS and non-OSAS both agree on that. You need not bother with that.
So I ask again, "what is the proof that one has faith? What exactly is it in trials that proves faith?"

"...now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ..." (1 Peter 1:6-7 NASB)

Nope, that's not what I said at all. I said nothing about "without faith".

Okay, so you claim to not have said that you are protected by the power of God WITHOUT faith. So, you must agree with me, then, that Peter's statement "who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:5 NASB) is not true for, and applicable to the person who does not have faith and that it only applies to those who do have faith. God's power does NOT protect the person who does not have faith. Am I reading you right, now that you corrected me in that you "said nothing about 'without faith'"?

As I said (quoting Peter correctly) it is not always necessary for any trials and distress in order to show genuine faith. One more time

Which has nothing to do with my question. Peter says, "the proof of your faith...result(s) in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (vs.7 above). What is the proof of one's faith when, if necessary, one is experiencing trials?

It can't be salvation. That's the thing we are seeking to prove.

 

[JLB]

We have already obtained the salvation of our souls. Just waiting on our body's salvation at Christ's second coming. Sure, some have various distresses and trials as we await His return for our glorified bodies.

The salvation of your soul will be received and obtained at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith,being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

Now, you have the hope of salvation.

Now, in this life we have the hope, which is born of a confident trust in the Lord, that He is willing and able to give us eternal life after we have died, in which we are raised from the dead. Everyone that is raised from the dead will not be given everlasting life.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


Which is why we are taught that everlasting life comes at the end.




Do you have faith in Jesus Christ right now at this moment, Chessman?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Nope. What I said is correct. It is God's power that has saved our souls already.

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ, right now, Chessman?



JLB