What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[FreeGrace]

Christ died for our sins. That doesn't mean Christ died for devils, saves devils, forgives devils or forgives a single sin.

Of course not. That's why any discussion about devils is irrelevant to the discussion of one's security.

And yes, the devil IS implicated in SIN. 1 John 3:8 and Mark 4:15 are examples of sin in connection with the devil.

There still has not been any explanation as to how this is relevant to humans.

Technically speaking not ONE SINGLE SIN is forgiven on their side of the ledgers.

What does "their side of the ledgers" have to do with humans? Please explain.

 

[FreeGrace]

Showed this prior. Here it is again:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

There are two parties it the above statement of fact from Paul. Paul, the child of God, eternally saved. And the messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh, scheduled for eternal damnation in the LoF. It is impossible to see only Paul unless we ourselves are also blinded by that which is in our own flesh, making us refuse to see the obvious.

The works of Satan and his messengers will be destroyed, yes, even those sins of believers, and Satan and devils will be in the LoF forever and ever. There is no use in seeing ONLY PAUL in the equation when Paul himself shows us otherwise.

We will never excuse a single sin because we understand it's source and cause is demonic.

Few believers care to hear that their own precious flesh is in fact contrary to and against the Spirit as Gal. 5:17 presents. But this is a fact and it is so because of the lusts and temptations therein which are demonically sourced. Mark 4:15, Romans 7:21, 1 John 3:8 and many many other citings.

Do the eternal damnation scriptures apply to a believer? Absolutely, when we have accurate sights. Because these scriptures are never just "about us."

IF we don't have this understanding, then we are only left with "evil" Paul. That won't cut the scriptural mustard.

None of this explains your apparent technical words. And the use of euphemysms such as "scriptural mustard" also doesn't "cut the mustard".

Please explain yourself. After all the posts between us, I still have no idea what your point is, or why devils have been brought up.

 

[JLB]

Because there are NO versses that teach that any believer can be "cast out of Him" for any reason. That's why.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

Those who are in Christ, have eternal life.

Those who are removed from Christ, no longer have eternal life.

Fellowship or Relationship are not mentioned.

In Christ = eternal life
Removed from Christ = no eternal life.


JLB

 

[JLB]

What gets burned up is the history of your life regarding worthless activities, in accordance with the New Covenant promise
"Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." Heb 10:17

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

"Anyone", "he" and "they", are not references to a person's life history of worthless activities, but is a reference to the person themselves.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

"Jesus answered, "The WORK of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.""".... John 6:29

 

[JLB]

"Jesus answered, "The WORK of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.""".... John 6:29

Amen. Great scripture.

What's the point.

 

[Kidron]

Amen. Great scripture.

What's the point.

-
"Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.""".... John 6:29

Its a work that ever wont get burned up at the Jdgmnt Seat of Christ.
As a matter of fact, its the only work you can do that God will accept that allows Him to redeem you through the Blood of Christ, and also creates you to be eternally secure.
Thats what this "work" does for the believer.
Thats the point.

 

[JLB]

-
"Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.""".... John 6:29

Its a work that ever wont get burned up at the Jdgmnt Seat of Christ.
As a matter of fact, its the only work you can do that God will accept that allows Him to redeem you through the Blood of Christ, and also creates you to be eternally secure.
Thats what this "work" does for the believer.
Thats the point.

Yes. Believing is the key.

How about those who believe for awhile, then fall away?


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

I am posting here because there were exactly 666 replies, now 667. No need to thank me for saving the forums. Ah, seems JLB saved the forums. Good show.

 

[FreeGrace]

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2
Those who are in Christ, have eternal life.
Those who are removed from Christ, no longer have eternal life.
Fellowship or Relationship are not mentioned.
In Christ = eternal life
Removed from Christ = no eternal life.JLB

I'm not going to continue to respond to your posts point by point because it seems to me that my responses aren't being read.

What I am going to do is PROVE that Jesus Christ taught eternal security.

Jesus taught that those who believe HAVE eternal life. The present tense means eternal life is a present reality. He also taught that those who HAVE eternal life will NOT come into condemnation/judgment.

John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus also taught that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. That's a really long time, btw.

John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Jesus taught that those who believe HAVE eternal life and will NOT come into judgment and will NEVER perish.

I cannot understand how a believer can read these words of Jesus and continue to believe that any believer can end up in hell.

Jesus gave no exceptions in His teachings. Eternal life is based on believing in Him, not on lifestyle.

His teachings on eternal life are specific and clear. There is no wriggle room. Those who have believed will not come into judgment and will never perish.

Period.

There are no Scriptures that contradict what Jesus taught.

The teaching of loss of salvation is in direct contradiction to the teaching of Jesus.

 

[FreeGrace]

Kidron said: ↑
"Jesus answered, "The WORK of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.""".... John 6:29

Amen. Great scripture.

What's the point.

See post #669 for the future of all who have believed in the One He has sent. Eternal security is the result, according to the teaching of Jesus.

And that is a great point.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes. Believing is the key.

How about those who believe for awhile, then fall away?
JLB

See post #669 for what Jesus taught about those who have believed.

Even when Jesus taught the parable about the soils and came to the 2nd soil who did only believe for a while, He never even suggested that they lost salvation.

That would have contradicted His teaching in John 5:24 and John 10:28.

Jesus was not contradictory.

 

[Kidron]

Yes. Believing is the key.
How about those who believe for awhile, then fall away?

JLB

-
If a person is born again into the family of God, then what they do within that family has nothing to do with the fact they are in it.
Its similar to being born of your mother.
If you end up a child molesting axe murdering blood drinking Hillary voter, you are still in your mother's family by BIRTH RIGHT, and this cant be undone if you 'fall away",.
Same with your "joint heir" (new Birth) status with Jesus.
Once you are born into GOD's family, you cant undo the birth by bad behavior issues., as birth cant be undone.
Birth is not maintained by good works or bible reading or church membership or Christian discipleship.
Did you ever read Corinthians?
You have a young man there having a sexual relationship with his Step-mama, and Paul dealt with this......but never did he say the person was lost, or no longer saved, and that is because behavior, bad behavior, cant undo the Atonment.

Being "born again", is something that God, through the Holy Spirit did for you, and this cant be undone anymore then you can
undo it regarding your earthly family.
Can you be unborn from your mother?......Then realize that you also cant be unborn from your Father's family in Heaven.
What you can do is be a very pathetic Christian, but even so, you are still a Christian.

 

[smaller]

Of course not. That's why any discussion about devils is irrelevant to the discussion of one's security.

It is directly applicable to the applications of those scriptures regarding the fate of eternal hell to believers, as noted prior in detail from 2 Cor. 12:7 and scriptures related to sin, evil, doing evil and doing things hated by Paul. Yes, there is eternal judgment to those things that PAUL did and had.

The problem both sides of the debates between "works" salvation and "grace" salvation arouse because neither side can put themselves personally into Paul's shoes and understand what the real problems of sin are in the spiritual senses and why eternal judgment to damnation scriptures does apply to the "current state" of believers. Read: Because scriptures are not just about individuals."

Scripture also directly addresses the adversary's workings in our own flesh. Mark 4:15, Romans 7 & 9, 2 Tim. 2:20-21 and other citings already provided prior, at length.

The "grace grace" only camps always seem to forget this aspect of scriptures and other positional problems arise from that neglect, such as the neglect of the judgments of sin that apply on the eternal side of the ledgers. When we look at Paul as he portrayed himself in the flesh, we should easily be able to see that in Paul's flesh a "messenger of Satan" was also involved with Paul's flesh. Eternal damnation applied/applies to that messenger.

This fact is also why the flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit, as Gal. 5:17 shows us. We do deal with the adversary "internally" in the form of temptations/lusts/deceptions. And because this is an internal working it is impossible to view ourselves as individuals from the scriptural conveyances. It's also why believers are a divided mess for the most part on a lot of subjects. We just can't ever fess up to the other party's involvement or even see it.

 

[JLB]

I'm not going to continue to respond to your posts point by point because it seems to me that my responses aren't being read.

What I am going to do is PROVE that Jesus Christ taught eternal security.

Jesus taught that those who believe HAVE eternal life. The present tense means eternal life is a present reality. He also taught that those who HAVE eternal life will NOT come into condemnation/judgment.

John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus also taught that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. That's a really long time, btw.

John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Jesus taught that those who believe HAVE eternal life and will NOT come into judgment and will NEVER perish.

I cannot understand how a believer can read these words of Jesus and continue to believe that any believer can end up in hell.

Jesus gave no exceptions in His teachings. Eternal life is based on believing in Him, not on lifestyle.

His teachings on eternal life are specific and clear. There is no wriggle room. Those who have believed will not come into judgment and will never perish.

Period.

There are no Scriptures that contradict what Jesus taught.

The teaching of loss of salvation is in direct contradiction to the teaching of Jesus.

Yes as long as a person remains "in Christ", then have the eternal life that is "in Him".

• That is not the point of contention.

Like the branch that is connected to the Vine has the life that comes from the Vine, we also being "in Him" have eternal life.

What you seem to disregard, are the words of our Lord that warn us, to remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

We all want to have eternal life.

God wants us to have eternal life, as He sent His only begotten Son, to die for us, that we would be reconciled to Him, by believing the message of the Gospel.

However, what you seem to ignore is that there is a continuing to believe and a continuing to remain in Him, for their be a continuing of eternal life. Apart from Christ, there is no eternal life.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The same way you ignore what Paul said about eternal life, and the consequences of those who choose to live a sinful life of practicing the works of the flesh, and have become a slave to sin.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

We also see the two types of Christian, illustrated in what Jesus taught.

A Christian being someone who comes to be "in Christ".

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:5-6

There are two types of branches, illustrated here, that are in Him... meaning both are "in Him". One remains in Him and produces fruit, the other is "in Him", for a while then ends up thrown into the fire and is burned.

Like the teaching of the Sower and the seed, there is an initial believing as evidenced by the seed being received and the growth of the seed into a plant, but the life of the plants ceases to continue, as illustrated by the fact that the believing ceased.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:11-13

Those in the first group who never believed, were never saved.
Those in the second group believed, and were saved as evidenced by the growth of the plant, but only for a while... as they did not continue.

Paul teaches us about two types of Christians, who make two different choices as to how live their life as Christians, in his letter to the Romans. Paul illustrates the two different outcomes of these Christians.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:5-8

• The Christian who is disobedient and does not obey the truth: indignation and wrath.

• The Christian who by patient continuance... in doing good, seek for honor and immortality, will on the Day of Judgement, receive eternal life.

JLB

 

[JLB]

If a person is born again into the family of God, then what they do within that family has nothing to do with the fact they are in it.

You mean the like Lucifer?

How about the sons of God who sinned during the days of Noah?

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Angels are sons of God.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36


JLB

 

[Kidron]

You mean the like Lucifer?
How about the sons of God who sinned during the days of Noah?
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
Angels are sons of God.
JLB

-
Lucifer was not "born", and he was certainly not born again, as he was created well before Jesus died on a cross, in case you didnt know it.
Angels are not born, and are not born again, are heavenly beings, some were cast out of heaven, and are said to be different then "Man".
Your bible says that "man (Adam) is created in the image of God", but you bible does not say that angels are created in the image of God.
You bible says that "God so loved the world" and the "world" does not include Angels who need to be saved, as Angels do not live on the "world"., JLB.
They are part of the "heavenly host", and do not require a blood atonement to redeem them......as only HUMANS were offered Salvation, only HUMANS are offered the GOSPEL, and never an Angel or a Devil, or Satan.
Be sure you realize this, asap.

 

[JLB]

-
Lucifer was not "born", and he was certainly not born again, as he was created well before Jesus died on a cross, in case you didnt know it.
Angels are not born, and are not born again, are heavenly beings, some were cast out of heaven, and are said to be different then "Man".
Your bible says that "man is created in the image of God", but you bible does not say that angels are created in the image of God.
You bible says that "God so loved the world" and the "world" does not include Angels who need to be saved, as Angels do not live on the "world"., JLB.
They are part of the "heavenly host", and do not require a blood atonement to redeem them......as only HUMANS were offered Salvation, on HUMANS are offered the GOSPEL, and never an Angel or a Devil, or Satan.
Be sure you realize this, asap.

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God?

Adam was created and called a son of God.

...the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38

If angels being sons of God, are not in the family of God, then whose family are they?


My point is both humans and angels are sons of God, and are God's family, whether created or pro-created.


Please use scripture to show that angels are not in the family of God.



JLB

 

[Kidron]

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God?
If angels being sons of God, are not in the family of God, then whose family are they?

JLB

I already answered you, JLB.
I told you that neither Angels nor Satan are made in the image of God as they are not created or born this way.
Jesus is the "2nd Adam", and neither Satan nor angels have any part in this original bloodline.
I told you that Angles and Satan are different then "humans" as neither Satan or Angels are human beings.
Angels and Satan were not born, nor are they offered the Blood Of Christ, and they can not be born again.
Only a HUMAN BEING can be BORN AGAIN by the Spirit of God.

Let me ask you a question now..

Why were the Angels who sinned and followed the Devil, not offered Salvation, and will never be offered salvation?
Arn't they "sons of God?...but yet neither the Devil nor the Angles, fallen or otherwise, are offered the Gospel....EVER.
So why does God not offer these 'sons", the same redemption that he offers MAN, if all "sons of God", are EQUAL?
Didnt your bible say that the "Angels sinned"?.....and didnt Christ "die for sinners'?....yet, Angels that sinned are not allowed redemption even tho the bible refers to them as "sons".
So why is this?
Thank you for using only scriptures to answer this simple question.


K

 

[FreeGrace]

It is directly applicable to the applications of those scriptures regarding the fate of eternal hell to believers, as noted prior in detail from 2 Cor. 12:7 and scriptures related to sin, evil, doing evil and doing things hated by Paul. Yes, there is eternal judgment to those things that PAUL did and had.

The problem both sides of the debates between "works" salvation and "grace" salvation arouse because neither side can put themselves personally into Paul's shoes and understand what the real problems of sin are in the spiritual senses and why eternal judgment to damnation scriptures does apply to the "current state" of believers. Read: Because scriptures are not just about individuals."

Scripture also directly addresses the adversary's workings in our own flesh. Mark 4:15, Romans 7 & 9, 2 Tim. 2:20-21 and other citings already provided prior, at length.

The "grace grace" only camps always seem to forget this aspect of scriptures and other positional problems arise from that neglect, such as the neglect of the judgments of sin that apply on the eternal side of the ledgers. When we look at Paul as he portrayed himself in the flesh, we should easily be able to see that in Paul's flesh a "messenger of Satan" was also involved with Paul's flesh. Eternal damnation applied/applies to that messenger.

This fact is also why the flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit, as Gal. 5:17 shows us. We do deal with the adversary "internally" in the form of temptations/lusts/deceptions. And because this is an internal working it is impossible to view ourselves as individuals from the scriptural conveyances. It's also why believers are a divided mess for the most part on a lot of subjects. We just can't ever fess up to the other party's involvement or even see it.

I continue to reject the view about "the other party's involvement" as there is no "other party" who is involved in our salvation. None whatsoever, and 2 Cor 12 doesn't teach that.

The view that the "messenger of Satan" has any involvement in one's salvation has no support from Scripture.

I'm still waiting for a detailed explanation of HOW one would come to that conclusion.