What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[smaller]

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God? Yes or No?

No.

The term angel means "messenger." It is a term that is applied to both Holy spiritual messengers and evil Satanic anti-Christ messengers and also to ordinary men messengers (Job 1:14, Luke 7:24, Luke 9:52) None of these 3 are necessarily of the same class.

Nor are Satan or devils sons of God, which is the general flaw in the reasoning. Why? Because IF God is The Father of evil anti-Christ spirits we have huge theological problems with God Himself. God can (and did) create the power of evil and not be the same as that which is created, evil power, IF that power results in His Perfect Intents. God can and did create evil spirits and not be the same as that which is created.

But the instant anyone makes God The Father of evil, rather than the Creator and user of evil, that is an entirely different matter. That understanding would be well out of every form of christian orthodoxy/normalcy and well into Mormon country. Satan is not the evil twin brother of Jesus.

The scriptures tell us that God did create the wicked for the day of evil. He did not "Father" them, but created them. Prov. 16:4.

God did not "Father" the anti-Christ spirits as His sons. Nowhere is this presented in scriptures.

Anti-Christ spirits and the Holy Spirit are not related.

God will destroy the anti-Christ spirits and their works at the finale of this wicked age. 1 John 3:8, Matt. 13:49

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"It is quite clear that the verse indicates that to NO angels did God ever say, "you are My son". That's the point.

No angel was begotten. Humans are begotten."

That's not what the scripture says.

That is exactly what the verse means. iow, God has NEVER said to any angel "you are My son". Or, "today I have begotten you".

"For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”?

The writer is explaining to the Hebrews about Who Christ is, that He is God, the only begotten Son of God.

Correct. God never said to any angel what He said to Christ, the Son of God.

From other scriptures we know that angels are in fact sons of God, as well as Adam.

Adam is a son of God.

Angels are sons of God

We are sons of God by faith in Jesus Christ, and will be sons of God, like the angels when we attain the resurrection and that age.

The verse you've quoted doesn't say what you're claiming, that we "will be sons of God, like the angels".

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

Let's look at the NASB translation of these 2 verses:

35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

From Strong's lexicon:
ἰσάγγελος
isaggelos
1) like the angels

My own Greek lexicon has "similar to angels".

Humans are NEVER "equal" to angels, according to the Bible, but will be superior to them in eternity:

Heb 1:4 - having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

So, just as the humanity of Jesus Christ is much better than the angels (not equal), so too believers will be LIKE HIM, which is much better than the angels.[/QUOTE]

 

[JLB]

That is exactly what the verse means. iow, God has NEVER said to any angel "you are My son". Or, "today I have begotten you".

Exactly!

This is reserved for the only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

The verse you've quoted doesn't say what you're claiming, that we "will be sons of God, like the angels".

Those who attain to the resurrection, have become equal to the angels.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

In this age, people die.

In that age, and the resurrection of the dead, those who attain that age, don't die anymore.
Sons of God, whether angels or human have immortality, and don't die anymore.

Until we attain that age and the resurrection of the dead, we can die, and are not yet immortal, having not yet obtained immortality, like the angels.

Those who have obtained eternal life, and are immortal, have become and are equal to the angels.

Have you obtained the reality of eternal life, whereby you will never die? No.

You will die some day.

If you have the Spirit of Christ within you, then you have the hope of eternal life, which includes the redemption of your mortal body.

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:22-25

Those that have this hope within, are eagerly waiting for that Day when we will be resurrected from the dead, in which we will not die anymore, having a body that shines like the sun, just like Jesus.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Heb 1:4 - having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Yes Jesus as the only begotten Son, is better than the angels, who are called sons of God, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

The Hebrews were well versed in the scriptures that teach them to only worship YHWH.

Yet they also refer to the Angel of the Lord as God.

In the Old Testament, Jesus is referred to as the Angel of the Lord, before He became flesh.

Three different scriptures referring to three different manifestations of the Angel of the Lord being referred to as God.

And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:2,6

and again

21 When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:21-22

and again

11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child, and you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild man; his hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him. and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
13 Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” Genesis 16:11-13


“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” 2 Corinthians 13:1


Then The Lord Himself, the Spirit of Christ, through Zechariah also refers to the Angel of the Lord as God.

In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall belike God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. Zechariah 12:8


Then the writer of the book of Hebrews weighs in on the subject:

For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”?

and again -

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5,8


In addition, It was the Angel of the Lord, as Lord and God, who made Covenant with the children of Israel and led them out of Egypt.

Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this?3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.
Judges 2:1-4


Jesus is the Lord God of Israel, who became flesh and died for our sins, and rose again on the Third Day.


The Angel of the Lord is the Son of God.

Angels are called sons of God.

We who attain to the resurrection of the dead, and that age, will be equal to the angels, and are sons of God.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who attain to the resurrection, have become equal to the angels.

I just showed from Scripture that humans do NOT "become equal to the angels".

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

The Greek word means "similar to", as previously shown.

In this age, people die.

In every age people die.

In that age, and the resurrection of the dead, those who attain that age, don't die anymore.

Because they have eternal life.

Sons of God, whether angels or human have immortality, and don't die anymore.

The Bible disagrees with this.
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Rev 20:10

The Bible also refers the lake of fire as the second DEATH!!
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Rev 20:6

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. Rev 20:14

Until we attain that age and the resurrection of the dead, we can die, and are not yet immortal, having not yet obtained immortality, like the angels.

All but a few humans will obviously die physically. What's the point?

Those who have obtained eternal life, and are immortal, have become and are equal to the angels.

You've not provided ANY Scripture to support this statement.

Have you obtained the reality of eternal life, whereby you will never die? No.

You will die some day.

Physically yes, unless I am raptured. Then, no, I will NEVER die.

If you have the Spirit of Christ within you, then you have the hope of eternal life, which includes the redemption of your mortal body.

I don't have the "hope of eternal life". I HAVE eternal life. Jesus said so:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Jn 5:24

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes Jesus as the only begotten Son, is better than the angels, who are called sons of God, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

And I showed the verse that says that believers (sons of God) will be LIKE HIM. So we'll NEVER be equal to angels.

In fact, the sons of God (human believers) will judge the angels.
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 1 Cor 6:3

Angels are called sons of God.

In only 1 sense. But NOT in the same sense as believers who are called sons of God.

We who attain to the resurrection of the dead, and that age, will be equal to the angels, and are sons of God.JLB

There are NO Scriptures that make this claim.

 

[JLB]

JLB said -

We who attain to the resurrection of the dead, and that age, will be equal to the angels, and are sons of God.

There are NO Scriptures that make this claim.

Here it is word for word from Jesus -

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

Those who attain that age and resurrection, are equal to the angels, nor do they die anymore, being sons of the resurrection, and are sons of God.

During this life, we can indeed die, and have not yet attained the resurrection of the dead.

In this age, and in this life, angels are greater in power and might.

In the age to come, those who attain that age will become equal to the angels, and we will have become sons of God in reality, as we will have obtained the hope of this resurrection from the dead, no longer hoping for it, but having obtained it, so much so that we will not die anymore.

Then will the saying have come to pass,...Death is swallowed up in victory.

So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”
1 Corinthians 15:54-55


JLB

 

[JLB]

Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 1 Cor 6:3

Which angels?

The devils angels?

God's angels?

They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 2 Peter 2:10b

 

[FreeGrace]

Here it is word for word from Jesus -

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

Those who attain that age and resurrection, are equal to the angels, nor do they die anymore, being sons of the resurrection, and are sons of God.

During this life, we can indeed die, and have not yet attained the resurrection of the dead.

In this age, and in this life, angels are greater in power and might.

In the age to come, those who attain that age will become equal to the angels, and we will have become sons of God in reality, as we will have obtained the hope of this resurrection from the dead, no longer hoping for it, but having obtained it, so much so that we will not die anymore.

Then will the saying have come to pass,...Death is swallowed up in victory.

So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”
1 Corinthians 15:54-55JLB

Is there a point to any of this?

 

[FreeGrace]

Which angels?
The devils angels?
God's angels?

The Bible is quite clear: the angels.

They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 2 Peter 2:10b

Does this relate in any way to your question??

 

[MarkT]

"...each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1 Corinthians 3:8-16 NASB)

Let's take this puppy apart and discern what each builder's work is that Paul says may or may not get burned up when the quality of that work is tested by fire. Lot's of questions to ask in this tiny piece of scripture.

What is God's building that God's fellow workers work on?
What is it's foundation?
Who laid it there in Corinth?
Who is building on it?
What is the fire that will test the quality of each man's work on the building, and what is the 'day' that reveals the outcome of the testing by fire?

The foundation is what is preached. So what is built on the foundation is teaching. If a man teaches on the foundation, he must be careful his teaching is true. So Paul says, "it is required of stewards that they may be found to be trustworthy." 1 Cor. 4:2

Each man's work refers to his teaching, and that depends on what he believes, and that depends on his understanding of the word, and that depends on the spirit in the man.
Job 32:8
But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Each man's work refers to his teaching

No, each man's work refers to what he built through what he taught.
Just like the carpenter who's work is what he built, not what he used to build it as you are saying.

 

[smaller]

The foundation is what is preached. So what is built on the foundation is teaching. If a man teaches on the foundation, he must be careful his teaching is true. So Paul says, "it is required of stewards that they may be found to be trustworthy." 1 Cor. 4:2

The most likely conclusion is that ALL believers will have works that will not and can not stand the test of fire Paul refers to in 1 Cor. 3.

An example of what works would be burned up by this test for Paul?

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Everything we've done is "saved" in our memory bank, our subconscious mind contains an intimate recording of everything we've ever done, thought, said or believe. Our conscious mind has to suppress the information contained therein in order for us to function, but it IS all therein and will ultimately be retrieved, examined and a lot of it, discarded.

It is a wise idea to make sure that the input therein is good.

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[JLB]

The Bible is quite clear: the angels.

So my question is whose angels?

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them... Revelation 20:4a

Here is an example of those who will be committed with judgement.

Who do they judge?



Here is an example of some angels who are awaiting judgement:

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4



JLB

 

[JLB]

Is there a point to any of this?

Yes angels are sons of God, and are part of God's kingdom, with God as their Father, yet can indeed be cast down to hell.

5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness.
Hebrews 12:5-10


God is the Father of all spirits, which includes those who were cast down to hell, for their disobedience during the days of Noah, as well as Lucifer and his angels.

Just because God is our Father, doesn't mean were are somehow "immune" from coming under His judgement and being sentenced to hell, if we live in disobedience or unbelief, after having known the way of righteousness and been a partaker of the Holy Spirit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 6:4-8


and again


20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”


...it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

No, each man's work refers to what he built through what he taught.
Just like the carpenter who's work is what he built, not what he used to build it as you are saying.

Not exactly. Paul is referring to what another man is teaching or building on the foundation. 1 Cor. 3:10 A man's teaching is only as good as his understanding of the word. Yet he says, let each man take care how he builds on the foundation of Jesus Christ. Obviously it applies to all men, especially teachers of the word.

Each man builds on the foundation according to his own understanding. So Paul says let each man take care how he builds on the foundation. Anything built on the foundation will be tested by the devouring fire. Isa. 10:17

 

[MarkT]

The most likely conclusion is that ALL believers will have works that will not and can not stand the test of fire Paul refers to in 1 Cor. 3.

An example of what works would be burned up by this test for Paul?

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Everything we've done is "saved" in our memory bank, our subconscious mind contains an intimate recording of everything we've ever done, thought, said or believe. Our conscious mind has to suppress the information contained therein in order for us to function, but it IS all therein and will ultimately be retrieved, examined and a lot of it, discarded.

It is a wise idea to make sure that the input therein is good.

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Well, that's not exactly what Paul is saying. He's saying as long as the foundation is secure, the man will be saved. Whatever anyone builds on top of the foundation will be tested, and if it is good, it will survive, and the man will be rewarded. If it is bad, his work will be destroyed, and he will suffer loss. A good example of our work is the stuff we are posting.

 

[smaller]

Well, that's not exactly what Paul is saying. He's saying as long as the foundation is secure, the man will be saved.

Haven't said otherwise. What I did point out is that Paul did not ever, always and only do/have good works, per his own statements in Romans 7:15 & 19.

Whatever anyone builds on top of the foundation will be tested, and if it is good, it will survive, and the man will be rewarded. If it is bad, his work will be destroyed, and he will suffer loss. A good example of our work is the stuff we are posting.

Let's be clear and realize that only the bad works will be destroyed. Good works receive a reward. Jesus is our reward.

 

[MarkT]

Haven't said otherwise. What I did point out is that Paul did not ever, always and only do/have good works, per his own statements in Romans 7:15 & 19.


Let's be clear and realize that only the bad works will be destroyed. Good works receive a reward. Jesus is our reward.

I'm more interested in what comes out of a man's heart than what he does in his sinful flesh.

Matthew 12:35-37Revised Standard Version (RSV)
35 The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

 

[smaller]

I'm more interested in what comes out of a man's heart than what he does in his sinful flesh.

Matthew 12:35-37Revised Standard Version (RSV)
35 The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

I kind of have a hard time, generally speaking, with any believer who can not discern the situations we have been planted in here on earth. Believers are NOT only good. Never have been, and never will be, in the flesh.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Believers hearts do have evil. Paul said evil was in fact present with him. Romans 7:21.

Paul gave us a "working" example of his own internal evil conscience in operations in Romans 7:7-13.

It will always be disingenuous to say that these things don't apply to us if they applied to Paul, or that Jesus will NOT judge these things.

That judgment will be had as Paul described in 1 Cor. 3. And there will be "loss" at that seat for all. I suspect we will be quite happy with that loss as well.

It is a shame that believers read about the good tree producing good fruit and yet, for the most part, they utterly FAIL to assess the other side of the coin, personally, thinking they don't think, say or do evil. Yes, that is a shame. And a deception.