What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

I told you that neither Angels nor Satan are made in the image of God as they are not created or born this way.

What would lead you to believe that angels are not created in the image of God?

Why were the Angels who sinned and followed the Devil, not offered Salvation, and will never be offered salvation?

Please give the scripture that shows us the angels who sinned followed the devil.

Please show the scripture that says the angels who were thrown out of heaven with Lucifer were not offered salvation, and will never be offered salvation.


Which non of this has to do with angels being sons of God and are part of God's family.

So why does God not offer these 'sons", the same redemption that he offers MAN, if all "sons of God", are EQUAL?
Didnt your bible say that the "Angels sinned"?.....and didnt Christ "die for sinners'?....yet, Angels that sinned are not allowed redemption even tho the bible refers to them as "sons".
So why is this?

Please post the scriptures for these statements, so we can discuss.

If a person is born again into the family of God, then what they do within that family has nothing to do with the fact they are in it.

Before you ask me to answer your questions, then you need to answer the questions I asked you, which come from your statement above.

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God? Yes or No?

If No, then: If angels being sons of God, are not in the family of God, then whose family are they?

If you answered yes to the first question, then disregard question 2.



JLB

 

[Kidron]

What would lead you to believe that angels are not created in the image of God?

Please give the scripture that shows us the angels who sinned followed the devil.


JLB

JLB,

Sometime after their creation, and most certainly after the sixth day when everything was declared “very good” (Genesis 1:31), Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), and in the book of the Revelation Satan is seen as “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1).
We are also told that one third of an “innumerable company of ANGELS” (Hebrews 12:22) chose to rebel with him. John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and HIS ANGELS with him” (Revelation 12:3–9).
Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the STARS were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen ANGELS..


ok, your turn,


Why were the ANGELS who sinned and followed the Devil, not offered Salvation, and will never be offered salvation?
2 Peter 2:4
"""For if God did not spare ANGELS when they SINNED, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;"""
Arn't they "sons of God?...but yet neither the Devil nor the ANGELS, fallen or otherwise, are offered the Gospel....EVER.
So why does God not offer these 'sons", the same redemption that he offers MAN, if all "sons of God", are EQUAL?
Didnt your bible say that the "ANGELS sinned"?.....and didnt Christ "die for sinners'?....yet, ANGELS that sinned are not allowed redemption even tho the bible refers to them as "sons".
So why is this?
Thank you for using only scriptures to answer this simple question.



K

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes as long as a person remains "in Christ", then have the eternal life that is "in Him".

Please review post #669, and show me any exceptions that Jesus included in His promises. I believe it's clear that He didn't include any exceptions.

That is not the point of contention.

The point of contention is the fact that Jesus clearly and plainly taught eternal security.

What you seem to disregard, are the words of our Lord that warn us, to remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

I've already explained that. And Jesus never added any exceptions to His promises in John 5:24 or John 10:28.

We all want to have eternal life.

Jesus taught that those who believe in Him HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT come into condemnation, and WILL NOT perish. And no exceptions.

God wants us to have eternal life, as He sent His only begotten Son, to die for us, that we would be reconciled to Him, by believing the message of the Gospel.

That's exactly right. And He promises that those who believe HAVE eternal life and will not come into condemnation and will not perish.

However, what you seem to ignore is that there is a continuing to believe and a continuing to remain in Him, for their be a continuing of eternal life. Apart from Christ, there is no eternal life.

Rather, what you seem to ignore is that there are NO CONDITIONS other than believing for one to NOT come into condemnation or perishing.

The same way you ignore what Paul said about eternal life, and the consequences of those who choose to live a sinful life of practicing the works of the flesh, and have become a slave to sin.

imo, it is your view that has ignored the promises of Jesus, which did NOT include any exceptions, as your view does.

Like the teaching of the Sower and the seed, there is an initial believing as evidenced by the seed being received and the growth of the seed into a plant, but the life of the plants ceases to continue, as illustrated by the fact that the believing ceased.

Where does the Bible actually teach that ceasing to believe means ceasing to be saved? There is no such teaching. Such a view is merely an erroneous assumption.

Provide clear Scripture please.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:11-13

Those in the first group who never believed, were never saved.
Those in the second group believed, and were saved as evidenced by the growth of the plant, but only for a while... as they did not continue.

Just as I have already pointed out, Jesus did NOT indicate that the 2nd soil lost salvation.

Paul teaches us about two types of Christians, who make two different choices as to how live their life as Christians, in his letter to the Romans. Paul illustrates the two different outcomes of these Christians.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:5-8

Such a view denies the only condition for eternal life: believing in Christ for it. And Paul clarified his view of "continuance in doing good" for salvation (eternal life, justification) in Rom 3:20, which reveals the error in your view: because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

This should resolve any error about how to understand Rom 2:5-8.

 

[FreeGrace]

Angels are sons of God.

Did fallen angels, or even the elect angels believe in Christ in order to become sons of God? No. So let's not mix apples and oranges.

 

[JLB]

Did fallen angels, or even the elect angels believe in Christ in order to become sons of God? No. So let's not mix apples and oranges.

Sons of God in the family of God is the context of this discussion.

Creating a "strawman" is not going to change a thing.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

What would lead you to believe that angels are not created in the image of God?

The Bible never makes such a claim, as far as I know. And I would never base a teaching on mere assumption.

However, if there is any Scripture that does make such a claim, I would be very interested in reading it.

Please give the scripture that shows us the angels who sinned followed the devil.

Please show the scripture that says the angels who were thrown out of heaven with Lucifer were not offered salvation, and will never be offered salvation.

It is interesting to see these kinds of questions, but when questions are directed your way, there is silence.

Please post the scriptures for these statements, so we can discuss.

Please post any Scripture that states that one's salvation can be lost, cancelled, forfeited, revoked, removed, taken away, or any other wording that clearly communicates that one who has believed can end up in hell.

 

[Kidron]

Sons of God in the family of God is the context of this discussion.
JLB

-

JLB,

Sometime after their creation, and most certainly after the sixth day when everything was declared “very good” (Genesis 1:31), Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), and in the book of the Revelation Satan is seen as “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1).
We are also told that one third of an “innumerable company of ANGELS” (Hebrews 12:22) chose to rebel with him. John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and HIS ANGELS with him” (Revelation 12:3–9).
Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the STARS were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen ANGELS..


ok, your turn,


Why were the ANGELS who sinned and followed the Devil, not offered Salvation, and will never be offered salvation?
2 Peter 2:4
"""For if God did not spare ANGELS when they SINNED, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;"""
Arn't they "sons of God?...but yet neither the Devil nor the ANGELS, fallen or otherwise, are offered the Gospel....EVER.
So why does God not offer these 'sons", the same redemption that he offers MAN, if all "sons of God", are EQUAL?
Didnt your bible say that the "ANGELS sinned"?.....and didnt Christ "die for sinners'?....yet, ANGELS that sinned are not allowed redemption even tho the bible refers to them as "sons".
So why is this?
Thank you for using only scriptures to answer this simple question.

 

[FreeGrace]

Sons of God in the family of God is the context of this discussion.

Creating a "strawman" is not going to change a thing.JLB

The strawman here is the claim that angels are in the family of God. Please provide Scripture that equates angels becoming sons of God in the SAME WAY that humans become the sons of God.

John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Gal 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

If there are verses that say the same about how angels become the sons or children of God, then please share.

Otherwise, such a view is unsubstantiated and is seen as an unsubstantiated assumption.

 

[JLB]

-

JLB,

Sometime after their creation, and most certainly after the sixth day when everything was declared “very good” (Genesis 1:31), Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), and in the book of the Revelation Satan is seen as “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1).
We are also told that one third of an “innumerable company of ANGELS” (Hebrews 12:22) chose to rebel with him. John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and HIS ANGELS with him” (Revelation 12:3–9).
Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the STARS were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen ANGELS..


ok, your turn,


Why were the ANGELS who sinned and followed the Devil, not offered Salvation, and will never be offered salvation?
2 Peter 2:4
"""For if God did not spare ANGELS when they SINNED, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;"""
Arn't they "sons of God?...but yet neither the Devil nor the ANGELS, fallen or otherwise, are offered the Gospel....EVER.
So why does God not offer these 'sons", the same redemption that he offers MAN, if all "sons of God", are EQUAL?
Didnt your bible say that the "ANGELS sinned"?.....and didnt Christ "die for sinners'?....yet, ANGELS that sinned are not allowed redemption even tho the bible refers to them as "sons".
So why is this?
Thank you for using only scriptures to answer this simple question.

You gave an explanation of angels or Satan, which does not answer my question.

My question comes from your statement about the family of God.

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God? Yes or No?

If No, then: If angels being sons of God, are not in the family of God, then whose family are they?

If you answered yes to the first question, then disregard question 2.


JLB

 

[WIP]

Please provide Scripture that equates angels becoming sons of God in the SAME WAY that humans become the sons of God.

Just curious. What would it matter if one is a son of God or adopted son of God? Either way, both are son of God, right?

 

[JLB]

The strawman here is the claim that angels are in the family of God. Please provide Scripture that equates angels becoming sons of God in the SAME WAY that humans become the sons of God.

Humans become sons of God like the angels.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Here is my question that you have never answered.
Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God? Yes or No?If No, then: If angels being sons of God, are not in the family of God, then whose family are they?If you answered yes to the first question, then disregard question 2.

-

Something else you can think about..
Why are WE (the born again).... called the "children of God" and Angels are never called this, ever?
An angel is never referred to by the Word of God or by Jesus, as a "child of God".
An angel is never referred to as a part of the "Body of Christ" or the "Bride of Christ" or the "Church" or the "Church of God"..
And angel is never referred to as a "joint heir with Christ".
And angle is not found "sitting in heavenly places with Christ", as are the born again.
An angel is never referred to as a "Saint" or a "Brother", or "Brethren".
But the born again believers ARE referred to as all of these, and more.
But NEVER the angels.
Never.
And , where did Jesus ever say an angel was His FRIEND?
But He said to believers, "i call you FRIEND". John 15:15
Did you notice all this??
You should.
I did.

 

[JLB]

Actually humans become Sons of God when they are born again.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

John says it again this way -

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 3:2-3


Jesus explains that we will never die [have eternal life] and be like the angels, as sons of God, if we attain to the resurrection.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

Now, in this life we are sons of God through faith, which is to say, we have the substance of the the thing hoped for, which is the full manifestation of being a son of God that will never die.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

We can say we are children of God now, because the Spirit of Christ is within us now, and will continue as we continue in our faith.


21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

You and I will be declared by Jesus Christ, as sons of God if we attain to the resurrection of the dead.


...those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.



JLB

 

[JLB]

-
Actually humans become Sons of God when they are born again.

Also, "equal to" does not mean "exactly the same status and bodily makeup".

For example, a born again person, is a "joint heir", with Jesus Christ, but angels are not.
A born again person is "in Christ", and angels are not.
So, there is a big distinction between "Sons", of God, as regarding comparing Humans with Non-Human angels.

-

Something else you can think about..
Why are WE (the born again).... called the "children of God" and Angels are never called this, ever?
An angel is never referred to by the Word of God or by Jesus, as a "child of God".
An angel is never referred to as a part of the "Body of Christ" or the "Bride of Christ" or the "Church" or the "Church of God"..
And angel is never referred to as a "joint heir with Christ".
And angle is not found "sitting in heavenly places with Christ", as are the born again.
An angel is never referred to as a "Saint" or a "Brother", or "Brethren".
But the born again believers ARE referred to as all of these, and more.
But NEVER the angels.
Never.
And , where did Jesus ever say an angel was His FRIEND?
But He said to believers, "i call you FRIEND".
Did you notice all this??
You should.
I did.

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God? Yes or No?

 

[Kidron]

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

JLB

Exactly.
And no Angel was ever given this opportunity.
(not even a fallen one).

Why are WE (the born again).... called the "children of God" and Angels are never called this, ever?
An angel is never referred to by the Word of God or by Jesus, as a "child of God".
An angel is never referred to as a part of the "Body of Christ" or the "Bride of Christ" or the "Church" or the "Church of God"..
And angel is never referred to as a "joint heir with Christ".
And angle is not found "sitting in heavenly places with Christ", as are the born again.
An angel is never referred to as a "Saint" or a "Brother", or "Brethren".
But the born again believers ARE referred to as all of these, and more.
But NEVER the angels.
Never.
And , where did Jesus ever say an angel was His FRIEND?
But He said to believers, "i call you FRIEND". John 15:15
Did you notice all this??
You should.
I did.

 

[Kidron]

Are angels, as sons of God part of the family of God? Yes or No?

No Angel was ever given this opportunity. ...""" You must be born again".. 1 John 3:7

1. (not even a fallen one).
   
   Why are WE (the born again).... called the "children of God" and Angels are never called this, ever?
   An angel is never referred to by the Word of God or by Jesus, as a "child of God". John 10:34, Psalm 82:6
   An angel is never referred to as a part of the "Body of Christ" or the "Bride of Christ" or the "Church" or the "Church of God"..
   And angel is never referred to as a "joint heir with Christ". Romans 8:17
   And angle is not found "sitting in heavenly places with Christ", as are the born again. Eph 2:6
   An angel is never referred to as a "Saint" or a "Brother", or "Brethren". Eph 2:19
   But the born again believers ARE referred to as all of these, and more.
   But NEVER the angels.
   Never.
   And , where did Jesus ever say an angel was His FRIEND?
   But He said to believers, "i call you FRIEND".
   Did you notice all this??
2. So, angels are "sons', yet
3. Not in the same way that Jesus as the 2nd Adam is a human deity.
4. See, your idea is that "sons" is all inclusive, and if that is so, then Angels and Jesus are the same, as Jesus is God's "Son" has no scripture to back it up.
   A Christian will be "conformed to the image of Christ", upon reaching heaven, and not "conformed to the image of an Angel". Romans 8:29
   
   Now,
   Why are WE (the born again).... called the "children of God" and Angels are never called this, ever?
5. Why?
   An angel is never referred to by the Word of God or by Jesus, as a "child of God".
   An angel is never referred to as a part of the "Body of Christ" or the "Bride of Christ" or the "Church" or the "Church of God"..
   And angel is never referred to as a "joint heir with Christ".
   And angle is not found "sitting in heavenly places with Christ", as are the born again.
   An angel is never referred to as a "Saint" or a "Brother", or "Brethren".
   But the born again believers ARE referred to as all of these, and more.
   But NEVER the angels.
   Never.
   And , where did Jesus ever say an angel was His FRIEND?
   But He said to believers, "i call you FRIEND". John 15:15
   Did you notice all this??
   

 

[FreeGrace]

Just curious. What would it matter if one is a son of God or adopted son of God? Either way, both are son of God, right?

The Bible describes believers both ways, and also as children of God (Jn 1:12). And I agree, either are sons of God.

 

[FreeGrace]

Humans become sons of God like the angels.

Where is that found in the Bible??

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36
JLB

Unfortunately, there is nothing in these 2 verses that tell us HOW angels become sons of God.

In fact, we know that God created angels individually. As Jesus noted, angels do not marry, and there is no account of angels having children.

 

[FreeGrace]

-

Something else you can think about..
Why are WE (the born again).... called the "children of God" and Angels are never called this, ever?
An angel is never referred to by the Word of God or by Jesus, as a "child of God".
An angel is never referred to as a part of the "Body of Christ" or the "Bride of Christ" or the "Church" or the "Church of God"..
And angel is never referred to as a "joint heir with Christ".
And angle is not found "sitting in heavenly places with Christ", as are the born again.
An angel is never referred to as a "Saint" or a "Brother", or "Brethren".
But the born again believers ARE referred to as all of these, and more.
But NEVER the angels.
Never.
And , where did Jesus ever say an angel was His FRIEND?
But He said to believers, "i call you FRIEND". John 15:15
Did you notice all this??
You should.
I did.

Excellent points.

One more thing to consider: Christ never died for angels.

Heb 1:5 - For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again, “I will be a Father to Him And He shall be a Son to Me”?

Heb 2:16 - For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

When Adam and Eve sinned, God provided the solution in the sacrifice of His Son on behalf of mankind. That is "giving help" to humans.

But no such help has been given to angels.

Angels to humans is apples to oranges.

 

[smaller]

I continue to reject the view about "the other party's involvement" as there is no "other party" who is involved in our salvation.

Never said there was. What I did say is that devils are involved with every sin in man including the sins of believers. I take this to be common knowledge among believers. 1 John 3:8.

The view that the "messenger of Satan" has any involvement in one's salvation has no support from Scripture.

Never said it was.

I'm still waiting for a detailed explanation of HOW one would come to that conclusion.

If I'd made such a claim you'd have a legit question. I do know from scriptures that God has bound all to disobedience in order to demonstrate His Mercy. So to that extent the spirit of disobedience serves it's purposes. Romans 11:32, Eph. 2:2.