What is Worship?

[Afew2go]

So then, what is Worship in song, specifically? Is it mouthing words or can you worship in song silently? Is there emotion involved or can you worship without emotions? How much of it is spiritual and how much is physical?

I had posted this in an earlier existing thread and thought maybe it should be on its own. A little over a year ago I resigned from singing on our worship team after watching our church go totally to contemporary christian music for worship. It seems as if there is no real reverence in our worship or from the pulpit and now I find myself not really sure of what worship should be like. It's been at least a year since I've felt any form of reverence and worshipful attitude in the congregational worship and /or teaching. So again, what is worship in song and music? I appreciate everyone's thoughts! :yes

 

[Tina]

.
What's wrong with contemporary christian music ?

The Bible is pretty clear about TRUE worshippers worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth, and making music in our hearts to the Lord.


John 4:23-24
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Ephesians 5:19
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord



:headphones :guitar :sing ... 3 2

 

[Timf]

What's wrong with contemporary christian music ?

Most modern Christian music is composed, arranged, performed, and marketed to make money. It makes money by appealing to what people want to hear. What people want to hear is what makes them feel good. People want to hear music that makes them feel good. While listening to music that makes us feel good may not necessarily be the evil that some would claim, it is also not necessarily the "worship" that others claim.

Jesus said that God would be worshiped in Spirit and in truth. If we are going to have "true" worship, we are going to have to be honest with ourselves as what we are doing to give pleasure to ourselves, and what we do to express praise and worship to God.

The Psalms have always been a measurement standard for worship and praise. It is fairly easy to read David's words and see a heart that declares the glory of God in reverence, worship, admiration, and love.

It is not the performance, arrangement, or even the words, it is the heart.

 

[handy]

Most modern Christian music is composed, arranged, performed, and marketed to make money. It makes money by appealing to what people want to hear. What people want to hear is what makes them feel good. People want to hear music that makes them feel good. While listening to music that makes us feel good may not necessarily be the evil that some would claim, it is also not necessarily the "worship" that others claim.

Amen, Amen and a big AMEN!!!!!

I think I said this somewhere else around here: If I could gather enough aging hippies, put them all in an arena, and get a really talented band to play John Lennon's "Imagine", I could guarantee the same kind of kindred "feeling" that passes for "worship" in most churches today. Too often anymore, "worship" is defined as a type of music that generates gooseflesh.

It's not.

But, I do realize that this thread is specifically about "worship" music, so I won't digress further.

What's wrong with contemporary christian music ?

The Bible is pretty clear about TRUE worshippers worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth, and making music in our hearts to the Lord.

Tina, I'm sure that you don't have this attitude, but I came of age during the '70's and '80's, when contemporary Christian music was just beginning to enter into church services, and too often the attitude was that anyone who resisted the urge to go "contemporary" was fighting the Spirit of God. This idea that somehow contemporary Christian music is more "spiritual" or "truthful" than the music of old is simply not true.

Great psalms, whether contemporary or not, are based upon great doctrine. If one was to pick up an old hymn book from the pre-postmodern era, one would find great doctrine contained upon just about every page.

I just reached over and grabbed the Lutheran Hymnal off of my shelf. This one has a copyright of 1941, and most of the hymns are from the 1500's through the 1700's. I opened it up and here is one hymn's lyrics, from the 1700's. Read through and tell me that this isn't based upon the Spirit and truth:

My Maker, be Thou nigh The light of life to give
And guide me with Thine eye While here on earth I live.
To Thee my heart I tender And all my pow'rs surrender;
Make it my one endeavor To love and serve The ever.
Upon Thy promise I rely; My Maker, be Thou nigh.

My Savior, wash me clean With Thy most precious blood,
That takes away all sin And seals my peace with God.
My soul in peace abideth When in Thy wounds it hideth.
There I find full salvation And freedom from damnation.
Without Thee lost, defiled by sin, My Savior, wash me clean.

My Comforter, give power That I may stand secure
When in temptation's hour The world and sin allure,
The Son to me revealing, Inspire my tho't and feeling,
His Word of grace to ponder, Nor let me from Him wander.
On me Thy gifts and graces show'r: My Comforter give pow'r!

O Holy Trinity! To Whom I all things owe,
Thine image graciously Within my heart bestow.
Choose me, tho' weak and lowly, To be Thy temple holy
Where praise shall rise unending For grace so condescending.
Oh heav'nly bliss, Thine own to be, O Holy Trinity!

Now to me, that is a hymn that is socked full of powerful truth of how wholly reliant we are upon God's Spirit.

I'm not knocking Michael W. Smith and I like "Our God is an Awesome God" as much as the next girl. But, without the (to my mind rather manipulative) surroundings of the modern "worship" service, compare the truth and Spirit of "Awesome God" with that old hymn above.

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just puttin' on the ritz
(our God is an awesome God)
There is thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fist
(our God is an awesome God)
Well, the Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason that He shed his blood
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our God is an awesome God

Our God(our God) is an awesome God
He reigns(He reigns) from heaven above
With wisdom(with wisdom) pow'r and love
our God is an awesome God

And when the sky was starless in the void of the night
(our God is an awesome God)
He spoke into the darkness and created the light
(our God is an awesome God)
Judgment and wrath he poured out on Sodom
Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross
I hope that we have not too quickly forgotten that
our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God
Our God is an awesome God
(Our God is an awesome God)

It's not that there is anything untrue about Smith's song, it's just that it seems rather shallow, if one is looking for truth in it, and, any song that is sung during worship of our Lord most definitely should be filled with truth.

 

[msnyder]

So I need to ask here: Is this thread about 'What is Worship (specifically related to music)? Or is it 'What is Worship (not specific to just music)?

 

[Cheyenne K]

Worship is anything that makes the soul cry out to the Lord and Christ in praise and love.
Some of it is physical, but most of it is spiritual. You could be physically doing something that would generate a spiritual response. However, you could also be doing something meant to be spiritual with a apathetic heart.

 

[Afew2go]

So I need to ask here: Is this thread about 'What is Worship (specifically related to music)? Or is it 'What is Worship (not specific to just music)?

My op was intended for specifically worship music. Sure do appreciate any opinion ya' might have! Thanks!

 

[graceforme]

Many churches are having two services - one "traditional" and then one "contemporary." Whatever tickles the ears of the people, I guess.

The worship music is intended to bring people into the mode of worship and prepare them for the message to follow. Too many churches have their "praise and worship" time, then stop for "announcements", most of which have nothing to do with worship. do you think we're all in the mood for worship after all the weekly announcements have been given? I'm glad my pastor gives all the announcements after the sermon is completed.

My thought about the music is this. I can worship God, no matter what the music sounds like. Worship comes from the heart, not from the music. Sometimes the music is directed at the younger people, many of whom won't even come to church if they have to listen to the "old folks" music. I say give them what they want. I can listen to "The Old Rugged Cross" and all the old hymns I want to on CD all week long. Just because the music on Sunday morning isn't my style, doesn't mean that it didn't come from the heart of the one who wrote it or those who perform it. If I allow the music to determine whether or not I worship in church, then I think I need to look at my own heart attitude. But, I will say that if I felt like the worship in my church was shallow or didn't have much meaning just because of the style of music, I might consider taking myself to a different church where the music suited me.

God Bless.

 

[handy]

I actually like a whole wide spectrum of music, everything from old time country to new age jazz and plenty of the pop 40 stuff as well. Being the age that I am, classic rock and roll is my favorite music, and if the lyrics praise God, all the better!

And, no matter what style of music, if there is depth of spiritual truth in it, then yes, it is most appropriate for a worship service.

But, graceforme said "Many churches are having two services - one "traditional" and then one "contemporary." Whatever tickles the ears of the people, I guess" and "Sometimes the music is directed at the younger people, many of whom won't even come to church if they have to listen to the "old folks" music. I say give them what they want."

This is what has me most concerned about what is passing for worship today. That the worship service has to be more about "giving them what they want" as opposed to recognizing that the worship service is NOT a time for ear-tickling and entertainment. Just as the old fogies can listen to "Old Rugged Cross" on CD's all week long, the young hipsters can listen to Skillet on their IPOD's as well.

Not to pick on you g4me, but you've struck a hot-button of mine! I am 100% against this whole idea of "seeker friendly" worship. I really am, because I think it totally by-passes what corporate worship is.

Corporate worship means just what it says, the worship of the Body of Christ. All of the body of Christ, feet and hands included. What worries me most about this current trend of "seeker friendly" worship is how divisive it is to the Body, even dividing the worship into two separate times.

Here's an example: My friend went to a church in California for over 30 years and as time went by it went to a full "seeker friendly" mode of "worship". Now, one thing that I want to mention about my friend here, is that her mother is married to her husband's father. No, they don't live in the backwoods, the older folks married after each lost their own spouse. But, I bring it up because the 3 generations all went to the same church.

On Sunday mornings, they would drive to church together, and once they left the parking lot, they wouldn't see each other until after church was over. This was because, in that church's "seeker friendly" atmosphere, each generation was separated to its own study time and its own worship time. At no time, did the whole body come together for a time of corporate worship. When my friend and her husband left that church and started going to a much smaller one, she called me with tears in her voice about the fact that they had communion with their daughter for the first time in over 3 years. It was so moving for her, that she begged her son to come to church with them for the next communion service.

There is really something wrong with the family of God today, if we cannot even partake of communion with each other.

I know this thread is about worship music and not about "seeker friendly" services, but often it is the music that becomes the dividing line in the churches. I've been to many different churches and I've seen it happen more than once, that as soon as "worship" music is brought in, as if "The Old Rugged Cross" is not worship music, then the divisions start, the Body gets compartmentalized and true corporate worship goes by the wayside.

 

[seekandlisten]

Worship is what it is. If you are in a 'worship service' and you are not worshiping but rather looking around thinking about how the music doesn't put you in the 'right mood' or the fact that others are worshiping but you don't view it as 'real worship' the problem doesn't lie without but within. Why, rather than look within to figure out why you are unable to 'worship', does one decide that the 'worship' taking place is not correct?

It's funny how in all these arguments, disagreements, separations and divisions everyone is quick to 'pick up stones' but if everyone in the world, regardless of race, religion, or nationality, took 5 seconds to look within themselves to see how they could better themselves in the 'now' there would be 5 seconds of peace in the world. Crazy eh?

cheers

 

[handy]

Worship is what it is.

So what is it then?

I know this thread is about worship music, but in order for us to understand how music is a part of worship, it might be best to come up with a working definition of what worship is.

Which brings us full circle to the title of the thread: What is worship?

 

[Afew2go]

Worship is what it is.

So what is it then?

I know this thread is about worship music, but in order for us to understand how music is a part of worship, it might be best to come up with a working definition of what worship is.

Which brings us full circle to the title of the thread: What is worship?

Thanks handy, ya' beat me to the punch!!!

 

[seekandlisten]

Worship is what it is.

So what is it then?

I know this thread is about worship music, but in order for us to understand how music is a part of worship, it might be best to come up with a working definition of what worship is.

Which brings us full circle to the title of the thread: What is worship?

Can worship truly be defined aside from a feeling of reverence and respect to your 'God'? It's not really something one 'does' or a 'style' is it? I could stand at the front of a church and wave my arms around jumping up and down singing praises to God and it be fake where at the same time someone else could be doing the same thing with only the love of their God on their mind. Worship is what it is to the individual and no one can tell you that it is wrong or you should be doing it another way because that isn't what it is. Does that make any more sense or is it just more confusing?

cheers

 

[graceforme]

Handy - Sorry for pushing your "hot-button", but I still stand on my statement. Give the young people the style of music they want and they'll come to church. At least it will get them through the door, where they will hopefully hear the truth of the Gospel and respond. Your "hot-button" is your own, and I respect that.

Worship is not just music. Worship is not how loud we sing, how beautifully we sing, how long we sing, IF we sing. Worship is our life. We worship God by the way we treat others. We worship God by how we do our daily jobs, and how we think and how we react to the world. We worship God by giving over everything we are and everything we have to Him - by being good stewards of what He has blessed us with.

We have tried to corner worship into a music "performance" that lasts only a short time. (Yep, we have worshipped real good today - we sang two extra songs and we sang extra loud). In other words, we gave a really good performance. If our "praise and worship" time is all about the style of music, then maybe we should just have a time of prayer and praise and move on. Scripture says "Make a joyful noise." doesn't say anything about style - and I bet the New Testament churches didn't just sit around singing old hymns. Scripture also says "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs." Again, doesn't say anything about style of music. David danced before the Lord until his clothing flew off. I would venture to guess that he wasn't dancing to "The Old Rugged Cross." Don't get me wrong - I love the old hymns, and I favor them tremendously in my music ministry. But, there's room for other styles as well, and I think we shouldn't be too swift to pass judgment on those who are favoring those styles.

God Bless.

 

[Afew2go]

Handy - Sorry for pushing your "hot-button", but I still stand on my statement. Give the young people the style of music they want and they'll come to church. At least it will get them through the door, where they will hopefully hear the truth of the Gospel and respond. Your "hot-button" is your own, and I respect that.

graceforme, great post and info. I guess that one of the things that is bothering me right now is that our pastor does seem to be concerned about "seekers" walking through the door on Sunday morning and it shows in our modern rock-style worship music and his milk-toast messages. I understood from the book of Acts that the first church was started for those who already believed in Christ and was meant to deepen and enrich their maturity in the Word and in the Lord. I don't know of any "seeker sensitive" church in the Bible, but yet it seems that in our church, the needs of the more mature believers are being disgarded. I think I'm understanding the meaning of worship a little better from everyones' posts, but yesterday my wife and I attended a church over on the east side of Riverside and noticed a distinct reverence in all that was said and done. The worship music consisted of some hymns and some contemporary songs and it just seemed as if you could feel God's presence surrounding us. It continued on as the pastor taught from Romans 6:6-11. At the end of the message the congregation just sat for a few moments and reflected on the worship and the teaching and it was so powerful. What led me to start this thread was exactly what we experienced yesterday and the lack of having that in our church for a long, long time now. Anyway, again, thanks for your contribution in helping me to get all of this straightened out in my heart and in my mind!

 

[graceforme]

Handy - Sorry for pushing your "hot-button", but I still stand on my statement. Give the young people the style of music they want and they'll come to church. At least it will get them through the door, where they will hopefully hear the truth of the Gospel and respond. Your "hot-button" is your own, and I respect that.

graceforme, great post and info. I guess that one of the things that is bothering me right now is that our pastor does seem to be concerned about "seekers" walking through the door on Sunday morning and it shows in our modern rock-style worship music and his milk-toast messages. I understood from the book of Acts that the first church was started for those who already believed in Christ and was meant to deepen and enrich their maturity in the Word and in the Lord. I don't know of any "seeker sensitive" church in the Bible, but yet it seems that in our church, the needs of the more mature believers are being disgarded. I think I'm understanding the meaning of worship a little better from everyones' posts, but yesterday my wife and I attended a church over on the east side of Riverside and noticed a distinct reverence in all that was said and done. The worship music consisted of some hymns and some contemporary songs and it just seemed as if you could feel God's presence surrounding us. It continued on as the pastor taught from Romans 6:6-11. At the end of the message the congregation just sat for a few moments and reflected on the worship and the teaching and it was so powerful. What led me to start this thread was exactly what we experienced yesterday and the lack of having that in our church for a long, long time now. Anyway, again, thanks for your contribution in helping me to get all of this straightened out in my heart and in my mind!

I, too, would be greatly bothered by thinking that someone would come into our church and hear such a message as you described. And it sounds like you received a great blessing yesterday. Thinking about making a change? Our church also uses hymns, and some contemporary music in our services, and everyone seems very well satisfied with it. And, anyone entering our church will never hear a "milk-toast" message from my pastor. Only the absolute truth. Toes may be stepped on (I've had mine trod a bit from time to time). But, the truth must be told, no matter what. We can't tickle the ears of those who want watered-down messages. Let's face it, Satan watered down the word to Eve and look what happened!

Many blessings to you. I pray things go well for you

 

[handy]

Worship is not just music. Worship is not how loud we sing, how beautifully we sing, how long we sing, IF we sing. Worship is our life. We worship God by the way we treat others. We worship God by how we do our daily jobs, and how we think and how we react to the world. We worship God by giving over everything we are and everything we have to Him - by being good stewards of what He has blessed us with.

I agree with you totally on this, but I also want to delve into corporate worship, which is different than individual worship. Individual worship should permeate all that we do, up to and including our reasons and attitudes for doing it.

But corporate worship (corporate coming from the latin term for body), the coming together with other believers to actively worship God in unity is what my "hot-button" is triggered over. This time of unified worship is NOT about a style of music, or a litany (I say this even as I enjoy going to a liturgical worship service).

I stand and stand strong by my assertion that it most certainly isn't about "seekers". Enticing seekers to church so that they can hear the gospel is not something you will find any where at all in the Bible. It's not biblical.

We have tried to corner worship into a music "performance" that lasts only a short time. (Yep, we have worshipped real good today - we sang two extra songs and we sang extra loud). In other words, we gave a really good performance. If our "praise and worship" time is all about the style of music, then maybe we should just have a time of prayer and praise and move on. Scripture says "Make a joyful noise." doesn't say anything about style - and I bet the New Testament churches didn't just sit around singing old hymns. Scripture also says "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs." Again, doesn't say anything about style of music. David danced before the Lord until his clothing flew off. I would venture to guess that he wasn't dancing to "The Old Rugged Cross." Don't get me wrong - I love the old hymns, and I favor them tremendously in my music ministry. But, there's room for other styles as well, and I think we shouldn't be too swift to pass judgment on those who are favoring those styles.

God Bless.

Exactly!!!! Exactly what I'm trying to get at here. Corporate worship is not, nor was ever, a music performance.

I know there are those who have the impression that I'm against having modern music in worship services. I'm not, I really, truly am not. I don't care what kind of music is played, as long as there is substance to the music. Singing "Jesus; Praise Him; Serve Him; Love Him" over and over and over and over and over and over, like a mantra, is not substance. Nor, to bring back to mind one of the worst times I've ever spent in a so-called "worship" service is changing the words to a Monkee's classic and singing "Then I saw His face, now I'm a believer." :gah (And I love the Monkees, always have, always will.)

My bugaboo isn't the style of music, it is the reason why the style of music is being promoted in the corporate worship services, to entice the young so that they'll come and hopefully hear the gospel. That's the problem. The attitude is one of "Youth must be served!" and that attitude isn't found in the Scriptures either.

A church can be solidly equipping, exhorting, and joining in unified worship with the newer music or the old classics. But, too often, the church's that are on the bandwagon of "worship and praise music" are the one's who are buying into this idea that our time of corporate worship is not for the saints, but for the world. And that is the big mistake.

 

[graceforme]

Worship is not just music. Worship is not how loud we sing, how beautifully we sing, how long we sing, IF we sing. Worship is our life. We worship God by the way we treat others. We worship God by how we do our daily jobs, and how we think and how we react to the world. We worship God by giving over everything we are and everything we have to Him - by being good stewards of what He has blessed us with.

I agree with you totally on this, but I also want to delve into corporate worship, which is different than individual worship. Individual worship should permeate all that we do, up to and including our reasons and attitudes for doing it.

But corporate worship (corporate coming from the latin term for body), the coming together with other believers to actively worship God in unity is what my "hot-button" is triggered over. This time of unified worship is NOT about a style of music, or a litany (I say this even as I enjoy going to a liturgical worship service).

I stand and stand strong by my assertion that it most certainly isn't about "seekers". Enticing seekers to church so that they can hear the gospel is not something you will find any where at all in the Bible. It's not biblical.

We have tried to corner worship into a music "performance" that lasts only a short time. (Yep, we have worshipped real good today - we sang two extra songs and we sang extra loud). In other words, we gave a really good performance. If our "praise and worship" time is all about the style of music, then maybe we should just have a time of prayer and praise and move on. Scripture says "Make a joyful noise." doesn't say anything about style - and I bet the New Testament churches didn't just sit around singing old hymns. Scripture also says "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs." Again, doesn't say anything about style of music. David danced before the Lord until his clothing flew off. I would venture to guess that he wasn't dancing to "The Old Rugged Cross." Don't get me wrong - I love the old hymns, and I favor them tremendously in my music ministry. But, there's room for other styles as well, and I think we shouldn't be too swift to pass judgment on those who are favoring those styles.

God Bless.

Exactly!!!! Exactly what I'm trying to get at here. Corporate worship is not, nor was ever, a music performance.

I know there are those who have the impression that I'm against having modern music in worship services. I'm not, I really, truly am not. I don't care what kind of music is played, as long as there is substance to the music. Singing "Jesus; Praise Him; Serve Him; Love Him" over and over and over and over and over and over, like a mantra, is not substance. Nor, to bring back to mind one of the worst times I've ever spent in a so-called "worship" service is changing the words to a Monkee's classic and singing "Then I saw His face, now I'm a believer." :gah (And I love the Monkees, always have, always will.)

My bugaboo isn't the style of music, it is the reason why the style of music is being promoted in the corporate worship services, to entice the young so that they'll come and hopefully hear the gospel. That's the problem. The attitude is one of "Youth must be served!" and that attitude isn't found in the Scriptures either.

A church can be solidly equipping, exhorting, and joining in unified worship with the newer music or the old classics. But, too often, the church's that are on the bandwagon of "worship and praise music" are the one's who are buying into this idea that our time of corporate worship is not for the saints, but for the world. And that is the big mistake.

You are so right. Some of the newer music is very reverent and beautiful. And I really love the old hymns.

I have attended Pentecostal churches in the past (thank God - in the PAST!) and I found the music to be ear-splitting loud and constantly repetitive. One time I counted a chorus that we were singing and we repeated it 58 times. I remember saying that I always left church with a pounding headache, and someone said, "Oh, don't worry, you'll get used to it." I never got used to it and am glad to have left it behind for something more meaningful to me and reverent to God.

God Bless.

 

[Mike]

I've thought about this thread since it was posted. I will get to my thoughts on the music aspect of worship, but if you don't mind, I'd like to side-step first. I think what concerns me most is the reason, the most important reason, we go to church. Some will say "to be fed". I think that's a nice bi-product of church, but isn't the most important reason we go to church is to "glorify God" and to "honor Him"? When I hear people complain about the music or anything about church, my first thought is "It isn't for you. It's for Him." We gather together as a community to form church when we attend, and it's brings joy to the Lord when we do. When someone doesn't feel like they got anything out of a service, I'm wondering what they put into it. It seems pretty egocentric to think in terms of what we get out of it personally. I'm not comparing anyone here to children, but I'm thinking about when I explain it to my kids. If we go to visit their grandpa to celebrate a special day for him and all his children and grandchildren gather together under his roof, and he sees his family gathered, happy to be there, he just beams. It brings such happiness to him. We're all there to express how much we love him and love each other. When I'm at church, I try to get in that mindset.

Sorry...I felt I needed to say that. But that leads into music. Too many people want the music to be for them, and then it becomes something about them. They're concerned if they don't feel lifted by the music, when they should be lifting. My church has several different services with different styles to offer different experiences to people. The service we were accustom to attending started going with more contemporary music, and it got louder and louder and louder. Soon the music was so loud, I couldn't even hear myself sing. It wasn't the sound of collective voices praising God, it was the sound of guitars and drums. I'm 43, so teenagers might think I"m old, but I'm not 80. I love contemporary music outside of church, but when at church, the music should be vertical. There are many places a community of believers can reach out to people and meet them on their terms. I don't think a church service is the place.

Okay, so I think "worship" is how we live. It is how we live out our lives every day, and that's for Him, not for us.

 

[handy]

I just listened to a guy on the radio. I don't know who it was, just the guy that was talking when I turned it on.

Anyway, he drew me into what he was saying because he was talking about people complaining about worship. I thought of this thread and started listening.

But, then he made what I believe is the fundamental mistake that is happening in the church today: Talking as if the worship service is all about "winning souls for the Lord" and therefore we need to have the kind of music that the world likes to listen to, and if one has a problem with that, well then, one must be part of the stiff-necked generation and any nay-saying is sinful complaining.

I just don't know how we got so off-track to believe that non-Christians and unbelievers are the ones that we are to be catering to when it come to the worship service.

I agree with you mjjcb, what happens during the worship service should be vertical. Then we should go out into the world, and bring the gospel message.