What is your concept of hell and why...

[jeruel]

...do you think God created/will create it.

I am making this new post for the reason that the one who started the topic "Why did God create hell?" thinks the "why" can be answered without delving into the "what" of hell. The guidelines in how to answer the question forces those who have concept of hell different from his not to answer for it would be useless to bring a "why" for a different "what."

I would like to open this thread top let people bring congruence to their understanding of "what" hell is and how does that jive with "why" it is created/will be created.

Example:

My understanding of hell is a worldwide burning of this earth in the last days (future) which will destroy everything including sinners, Satan, and his evil angels. This is the what.

So that sin and its results will be forever vanished from the universe. This will put a finality into the tug of war between the forces of good and evil. This is the why.

As you can see my "what" fits into the puzzle of my "why." May I know yours?

 

[turnorburn]

I believe what Jesus says about Hell..

In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

 

[duval]

From Jesus' own language on hell I believe hell may be worse than the descriptions He gave. That is the "what". In a previous thread as to "why" hell was created I cited Mat.25:41: for the devil and his angels.

God bless

 

[LostSoul]

I believe what Jesus says about Hell..

In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

Like Turnorburn Hell is something of which I believe to be as Jesus described in Luke. A place for certain I would hope, pray, and strive to live my best for Christ so that I might not go. Eternal torment never looked so frightening.

 

[Paidion]

I believe Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, is God's severe mercy, His only means, after having exhausted less severe means, of leading to repentance and purification in the next life those who have not become Christ's disciples in the present life.

Malachi 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner‘s fire and like fullers’ soap;

George MacDonald wrote:

"He came to work along with our punishment"

and

"No one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sin, from the evil in him. If hell be needful to save him, hell will blaze, and the worm will writhe and bite, until he takes refuge in the will of the Father." from The Hope of the Gospel, chapter 1 -- Salvation from Sin.

 

[oneisgod]

...do you think God created/will create it.

I am making this new post for the reason that the one who started the topic "Why did God create hell?" thinks the "why" can be answered without delving into the "what" of hell. The guidelines in how to answer the question forces those who have concept of hell different from his not to answer for it would be useless to bring a "why" for a different "what."

I would like to open this thread top let people bring congruence to their understanding of "what" hell is and how does that jive with "why" it is created/will be created.

Example:

My understanding of hell is a worldwide burning of this earth in the last days (future) which will destroy everything including sinners, Satan, and his evil angels. This is the what.

So that sin and its results will be forever vanished from the universe. This will put a finality into the tug of war between the forces of good and evil. This is the why.

As you can see my "what" fits into the puzzle of my "why." May I know yours?

1
Hellfire does not exist,

2
why, is is not from the Bible!

 

[Free]

Hellfire does not exist,

Then why did Jesus mention it so much?

 

[samuel]

1
Hellfire does not exist,

Don't go around betting your Soul on it.

 

[Rick W]

I believe Hell is the state of being without Christ, knowing the truth and thirsting for His presence forever.

 

[turnorburn]

Have a look here.. at Bill Wiese and his 23 minutes in Hell.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

 

[oneisgod]

1
Hellfire does not exist,

Don't go around betting your Soul on it.

WHY IS THERE SO MUCH CONFUSION ABOUT HELL?

VARIOUS IDEAS ABOUT HELL:-
"Hell In various religions, a place of posthumous punishment. In Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, hell is a transitory stage in the progress of the soul, but in Christianity and Islam it is eternal (purgatory is transitory). Judaism does not postulate such punishment. In the Bible, the word `hell' is used to translate Hebrew and Greek words all meaning `the place of departed spirits, the abode of the dead'. In medieval Christian theology, hell is the place where unrepentant sinners suffer the torments of the damned, but the 20th-century tendency has been to regard hell as a state of damnation (that is, everlasting banishment from the sight of God) rather than a place."-INFOPEDIA UK96, Hutchinson New Century Encylocpedia

‘History of Western Philosophy’ by Bertrand Russell p.257
"It is sometimes supposed that Hell was a Christian invention, but this is a mistake. What Christianity did in this respect was only to systematise earlier popular beliefs.â€Â

What where these “earlier popular beliefs†that where used to produced Hell-Fire?

EGYPTIAN
‘The Religion of Ancient Egypt’ by A.H.Sayce DD., LL.D. p.197
"It was not only the friends and followers of Ra [the Sun god] who thus accompanied him in his journey through the other world; his enemies were there also, and the horrible punishments they had to endure, as depicted on the walls of royal tombs, were worthy of the imagination of a Dante. … Fire-breathing serpents are prominent among them, lighting up the darkness for the friends of Ra, and burning his foes with their poisonous flames."

‘The Religion of Ancient Egypt’ by Professor A. H. Sayce pp.229-30*
Lecture X. The Place Of Egyptian Religion In The History Of Theology
"Many of the theories of Egyptian religion modified and transformed no doubt, and penetrated into the theology of Christian Europe, and formed, as it were, part of the woof in the web of modern religious thought. Christian theology was largely organised and nurtured in the schools of Alexandria, and Alexandria was not only the meeting place of East and West, it was also the place where the decrepit theology of Egypt was revived by contact with the speculative philosophy of Greece. The Egyptian, the Greek, and the Jew met there on equal terms, and the result was a theological system in which each had a share.â€Â

THUS THE IDEA OF A BURNING PLACE OF EVERLASTING TORMENT IN THE AFTER LIFE HAS IT ROOTS IN PAGANISM!

 

[oneisgod]

Hellfire does not exist,

Then why did Jesus mention it so much?

WHAT IS HELL?

A definition of “hell†reads: “Hell -n. 1 place regarded in some religions as the abode of the dead, or of devils and condemned sinners. 2 place or state of misery or wickedness. … .â€Â-Oxford Dic.
IS THIS CORRECT?

“SHEOL (some time translated hell) … Regarding Sheol, in A Compendious Hebrew Lexicon, Samuel Pike stated that it is “the common receptacle or region of the dead; so called from the insatiability of the grave, which is as it were always asking or craving more.†(Cambridge, 1811, p. 148) This would indicate that Sheol is the place (not a condition) that asks for or demands all without distinction, as it receives the dead of mankind within it.â€â€Gen 37:35, ftn; Pr 30:15, 16.


THE C. OF E. MADE AN INTRESTING COMMENT ON HELL, IN ‘THE MYSTERY OF SALVATION’ THE STORY OF GOD’S GIFT, A REPORT BY THE DOCTRINE COMMISSION OF THE GREAT SYNOD OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND P.199
“Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolute that the only end is total non-being. … Annihilation might be a truer picture of damnation that any of the traditional images of the hell of torment.â€Â


TO GO TO “HELL†IS TO GO UNDERGROUND OR INTO THE GRAVE.
“In old English the word hell simply meant to hide or to cover - helling potatoes meant putting them into pits, helling a house meant covering or thatching it, etc.; the word hell was therefore properly used as signifying the secret or hidden condition of death. It had no reference whatever to a place of torture until that meaning was attached to it by te theologians of the Dark Ages.â€Â-Restoration Light Bible Study Service, P.O. Box 16892, Philadelphia, PA 19142 USA

 

[Joe67]

In the words of prophecy and the testimony of Jesus in the Revelation there are two pictures of fire at the end of the age.

Revelation 20:9 testifies to a fire coming down from God out of heaven that devours the nations that gather, while being deceived by Satan(the angel of light/a roaring lion is not a deception), against the camp of the saints(camp is a place without walls/Ezekiel38:11)and the beloved city(which is still in heaven/the new Jerusalem). The "lake of fire" is testified is several presentations in the last chapters of Revelation. Are both of them testimonies of hell?

Laying aside commentaries and even dictionaries; and considering the passages of Scripture given through the mouth of God's holy prophets from the beginning until the time of John the baptist; and then Jesus' revelation as to the significance of these prophecies (which includes Jesus' testimony through his apostles that he sent out in his name, including Paul); the fire of God has two different manifestations, yes even three. The continual burnt offering in the outer court. The fire of the lamp stand. The burning of the apothecary, which was a smodering, smoking torment to the eyes, but sweet in aroma.

Everyone begins their understanding with the burning of the body in the outer court. This must not be denied or we will build on another foundation. The next understanding is in the sanctuary with the 7 candle lamp stand and the burning of the oil. Finally, in the sanctuary, is the understanding of the significance of the burning of the apothecary, which was beaten very small, of which the residue was a glowing coal, that had to be handled with tongs, even by the angel in his ministry to Isaiah's lying lips.

Fire, therefore, has a three fold understanding. A three fold cord is not soon broken.

The bodies of those beasts sacrificed on the day of Atonement, once each year, they were taken outside the camp and burned. Jesus was taken outside the city. Let us go outside our city with Jesus. Babylon is fallen, is fallen. Come out of her my people, that you will not be a partaker of her plagues(she adds to the words of the prophecy). So herein is a fourth fire in the testimony of God to us, in Jesus Christ.

Finally, she who adds to God's words will be unmasked and she will take away from God's words in the name of serving the poor, just as Judas did, while thinking to secure his future and have plenty for years to come(though not long before he will have been teaching that Jesus was coming any time, but like the young widows his zeal for the coming Christ became lukewarm and he remarried the love of this world, as Demas did after serving with Paul in Rome). He did not know the vision would tarry for a little while.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

Joe

 

[Free]

WHAT IS HELL?

A definition of “hell†reads: “Hell -n. 1 place regarded in some religions as the abode of the dead, or of devils and condemned sinners. 2 place or state of misery or wickedness. … .â€Â-Oxford Dic.
IS THIS CORRECT?

“SHEOL (some time translated hell) … Regarding Sheol, in A Compendious Hebrew Lexicon, Samuel Pike stated that it is “the common receptacle or region of the dead; so called from the insatiability of the grave, which is as it were always asking or craving more.†(Cambridge, 1811, p. 148) This would indicate that Sheol is the place (not a condition) that asks for or demands all without distinction, as it receives the dead of mankind within it.â€â€Gen 37:35, ftn; Pr 30:15, 16.


THE C. OF E. MADE AN INTRESTING COMMENT ON HELL, IN ‘THE MYSTERY OF SALVATION’ THE STORY OF GOD’S GIFT, A REPORT BY THE DOCTRINE COMMISSION OF THE GREAT SYNOD OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND P.199
“Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolute that the only end is total non-being. … Annihilation might be a truer picture of damnation that any of the traditional images of the hell of torment.â€Â


TO GO TO “HELL†IS TO GO UNDERGROUND OR INTO THE GRAVE.
“In old English the word hell simply meant to hide or to cover - helling potatoes meant putting them into pits, helling a house meant covering or thatching it, etc.; the word hell was therefore properly used as signifying the secret or hidden condition of death. It had no reference whatever to a place of torture until that meaning was attached to it by the theologians of the Dark Ages.â€Â-Restoration Light Bible Study Service, P.O. Box 16892, Philadelphia, PA 19142 USA

I cannot help but notice you didn't give all the definitions of 'hell' and not even the one that is used most often, particularly by Jesus. There are actually 3 different words used for 'hell' in the NT: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus. It is unfortunate that so many translators decided to use 'hell' for all of them.

Tartarus (tartaroo) is used only once, in 2 Pet 2:4 and is not relevant to this discussion.

Hades is used 11 times and refers to the temporary abode of the dead, as you have stated. It is used 4 times in the Gospels and 4 times in Revelations. In Luke 16 it is the place where the Rich Man is in torment. In Revelations, it is Hades that gives up the dead that are in it and is then cast into the lake of fire, which is, IMO, gehenna.

The most important one you left out, the one most relevant to this discussion, is gehenna, referring the the valley Hinnom outside of Jerusalem where refuse and dead animals were burnt. This one is used 12 times in the NT and occurs only once outside the Gospels, in James 3:6:

"And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell."

Interestingly enough, 'fire' is used in reference to 'hell' (see also Matt 5:22, 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47).

Gehenna is used in all of Jesus' strongest warnings, for a reason.

 

[LostSoul]

I believe Hell is the state of being without Christ, knowing the truth and thirsting for His presence forever.

Rick,

This is the shortest, yet most profound answer I have seen thus far. Can you show some scripture on this? While I can very much agree with what is written in Luke. I think you are on to something a bit deeper.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[oneisgod]

WHAT IS HELL?

A definition of “hell†reads: “Hell -n. 1 place regarded in some religions as the abode of the dead, or of devils and condemned sinners. 2 place or state of misery or wickedness. … .â€Â-Oxford Dic.
IS THIS CORRECT?

“SHEOL (some time translated hell) … Regarding Sheol, in A Compendious Hebrew Lexicon, Samuel Pike stated that it is “the common receptacle or region of the dead; so called from the insatiability of the grave, which is as it were always asking or craving more.†(Cambridge, 1811, p. 148) This would indicate that Sheol is the place (not a condition) that asks for or demands all without distinction, as it receives the dead of mankind within it.â€â€Gen 37:35, ftn; Pr 30:15, 16.


THE C. OF E. MADE AN INTRESTING COMMENT ON HELL, IN ‘THE MYSTERY OF SALVATION’ THE STORY OF GOD’S GIFT, A REPORT BY THE DOCTRINE COMMISSION OF THE GREAT SYNOD OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND P.199
“Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolute that the only end is total non-being. … Annihilation might be a truer picture of damnation that any of the traditional images of the hell of torment.â€Â


TO GO TO “HELL†IS TO GO UNDERGROUND OR INTO THE GRAVE.
“In old English the word hell simply meant to hide or to cover - helling potatoes meant putting them into pits, helling a house meant covering or thatching it, etc.; the word hell was therefore properly used as signifying the secret or hidden condition of death. It had no reference whatever to a place of torture until that meaning was attached to it by the theologians of the Dark Ages.â€Â-Restoration Light Bible Study Service, P.O. Box 16892, Philadelphia, PA 19142 USA

I cannot help but notice you didn't give all the definitions of 'hell' and not even the one that is used most often, particularly by Jesus. There are actually 3 different words used for 'hell' in the NT: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus. It is unfortunate that so many translators decided to use 'hell' for all of them.

Tartarus (tartaroo) is used only once, in 2 Pet 2:4 and is not relevant to this discussion.

Hades is used 11 times and refers to the temporary abode of the dead, as you have stated. It is used 4 times in the Gospels and 4 times in Revelations. In Luke 16 it is the place where the Rich Man is in torment. In Revelations, it is Hades that gives up the dead that are in it and is then cast into the lake of fire, which is, IMO, gehenna.

The most important one you left out, the one most relevant to this discussion, is gehenna, referring the the valley Hinnom outside of Jerusalem where refuse and dead animals were burnt. This one is used 12 times in the NT and occurs only once outside the Gospels, in James 3:6:

"And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell."

Interestingly enough, 'fire' is used in reference to 'hell' (see also Matt 5:22, 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47).

Gehenna is used in all of Jesus' strongest warnings, for a reason.

"Gehenna"=Greek "Valley of the sons of Hinnom"=Hebrew was just a rubbish dump to the south west of the city of Jerusalem.

 

[Free]

And...?

 

[oneisgod]

And...?

So how can it be some mytholigial place under gorund where the Devil and his demons live, no such place!

 

[Free]

So how can it be some mytholigial place under gorund where the Devil and his demons live, no such place!

That Jesus mentioned it and warned strongly about not doing the things that will get one there, clearly means he believed it was an actual place. He used gehenna as an analogy for a place where the wicked and unbelieving would go. Whether it is underground or not is irrelevant.

 

[oneisgod]

So how can it be some mytholigial place under gorund where the Devil and his demons live, no such place!

That Jesus mentioned it and warned strongly about not doing the things that will get one there, clearly means he believed it was an actual place. He used gehenna as an analogy for a place where the wicked and unbelieving would go. Whether it is underground or not is irrelevant.

Good we get to the point of a analogy which I agree with, but what analogy?

When any rubbish or dead bodies of criminals where tossed into the valley of Gehenna they where first devoid of any life and were then totally destroyed by the fires that were stoked with sulfer to keep them burning, thus no life or living thing of any kind was to be found there, this is Gehenna a place of total destruction with no hope of life in any from ever again!

Asa Revelation speaks of it as the 2nd Death from which there is no ressurection, thus everlasting death or nothingness!!

Revelation 20:14
This means the second death, the lake of fire.