What makes some people stop being a Christian?

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Hello Lamp lady

Yeah I get that. Still it's interesting because this would probably apply to people who were perhaps newish or already weak in their faith. What I don't understand are those who really preached the gospel, (correctly), and then they fade - wonder what happens?

Maybe there is something in their preaching that is not right with God? They may preach the basics right but then go beyond what is given and start preaching things that are not the Will of God.

*er lol ... what's a 'smorgasbord'? It keeps coming up in movies and stuff and now it's starting to annoy me coz I don't know what it is!

There are different names for it in different parts of the world i guess. It is when a feast is prepared and instead of serving people particular dishes all the different kinds of food is placed out usually on a big long central table. The people are given plates and they go up to the big table and walk around it picking out the foods that they like and passing over the foods that they don't like. Then they go back to their own tables and eat the selection of the food. That big long table is a smorgasbord.

The Word of God is like a Feast of truths and teachings we should be accepting it all and not picking and choosing what we accept and reject, then calling ourselves Christians just because we have partaken of one or two truths.

Wow! Really like your milk to solid analogy lol - all good and thanks! I think it's fascinating how one can be so at one with God then time later they're not ... but perhaps it's like what we all know, only God knows the true hearts of man ...

I have seen many people seemingly at one with God and they break away because they have lost a loved one or have suffered a personal tragedy. So that person looked upon The God that they where close to as a God that would keep them away from personal tragedies. Of course the God of Abraham has made no such promises about keeping us from the suffering that is common to this world. Jesus even said:

John 16
33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.â€

This is only one area where a misconception about God or a twisted view of God can lead to ones belief in God crumbling to dust. I am sure others could bring up other examples. People should not look for a God that will keep them away from the troubles of the World but a God that will provide them with the strength and peace of mind to face the troubles of the world.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

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That is not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is people useing Jesus as their excuse to justify their own ideas, and how Jesus is the justification for all the questionable ethics in the Bible.

The entire core of Christianity is that we are bad, so Jesus had to die to help us.

Most of the people I have talked to ( see, I'm voicing this in opinion) who were never a Christian, or left Christianity is because the religion demands you accept that you are trash and the justification is as simple as because 2 people thousands of years ago made God mad.

Jesus actually is the least in the equation here. I've actually met more people who think Jesus ( in context to Christianity) Got a raw deal, because his father made up a rule system that didn't judge people on an individual level, but as a whole.
Jesus's death didn't actually dosen't solve anything outside of symbolic reasoning.

Those with Great Pride will never accept that they are faulty. And even if they know deep down that they are not perfect, the proud want to be given a way that they can achieve self justification, they want a system where they can get a pass score through their own efforts at being Good and resisting Evil.

That’s what religions of the world and the philosophies of men offer and why many people gravitate towards them.

The Gospel however gives all glory to Jesus and makes God the Redeemer of those who accept the Way He has provided for mankind to be Redeemed. No room for people who suffer from the most toxic condition called pride.

Is this message offending you Lance_Iguana ?

No, I'm not abandoning my understanding or critical thinking, because if I did, I'd be easy pickings for con artists and conspiracy theorists who either want to use my trust to gain support or money.

Its your very loyalty and trusting in your own understanding that is making you easy pickings for satan and his agents on earth. Once you place your trust in yourself you reveal your pride in yourself and you are placing your trust in a limited, faulty human being.

If we can't use our understanding on God, then how do we even know who understand the difference between something God did, or something that is natural?

Cannot trust anyone but yourself hey? If you where wise then you would understand that you cannot even trust yourself. The greatest wisdom we can have is to know we are not wise. So what is the solution? Trusting in God is the solution and calling out to him for guidance. Faith is trust and without it where stuffed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Those with Great Pride will never accept that they are faulty.

Who here is saying they aren't faulty?

And even if they know deep down that they are not perfect, the proud want to be given a way that they can achieve self justification, they want a system where they can get a pass score through their own efforts at being Good and resisting Evil.

This seems a little long winded and preachy, and not aimed at anyone in this thread in particular. I think you need to actually figure out who it is you are talking to first.

That’s what religions of the world and the philosophies of men offer and why many people gravitate towards them.

Christianity is one of those very religions as well. It serves the exact same function every other religion on Earth has filled. Gives people instant answers and the notion they can escape pain or gain something. Its no different from any other religion in that regard.

The Gospel however gives all glory to Jesus and makes God the Redeemer of those who accept the Way He has provided for mankind to be Redeemed. No room for people who suffer from the most toxic condition called pride.

You know, its ironic getting a pride lecture from someone who is being really condescending and preachy.

Is this message offending you Lance_Iguana ?

What? Your intentionally vague concept based on assumptions and a condescending attitude? I don't know who you are even talking to, let alone feel offended by it.

Its your very loyalty and trusting in your own understanding that is making you easy pickings for satan and his agents on earth.

Which you can't define without being vague and these arguments always surface after someone fails to present solid evidence. Its a threat masked as concern.

Once you place your trust in yourself you reveal your pride in yourself and you are placing your trust in a limited, faulty human being.

You are assuming I'm trusting only in myself. You haven't asked me where my trust is in, so you went ahead and started lambasting me over pride and self loving. I think you need to step off the pulpit and make sure you have your facts straight before you try and be a an authority about my own thoughts.

Cannot trust anyone but yourself hey?

I don't know where you got that from. Assumptions again.

If you where wise then you would understand that you cannot even trust yourself.

Who Said I did, your entire argument is based on the assumption that I am prideful of myself, yet you never asked or confirmed any of this.

The greatest wisdom we can have is to know we are not wise.

And that wisdom came from Socartese who was burned for being a heritical atheist.

So what is the solution?

Doing the best with the information we have and not falling into assumptions that make us look foolish.

Trusting in God is the solution and calling out to him for guidance. Faith is trust and without it where stuffed.

You haven't yet proved that there even is a God, let alone your specific God. I don't think I'll take your word for it either, especially since you seem to talk for other people, and this entire post was nothing but manipulative intellectual dishonesty.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Ohm!

 

[pjt]

What?

God gave the world the free gift of Jesus - they knew that - who can turn their backs on the greatest love?

Can't get my head round those who believed for years - like three to fifty years or more suddenly or gradually stop believing? It just doesn't make any sense? Does it?

I would guess they were never truly a Christian to begin with meaning yes they may have gone to church 3 times a week, led a Sunday School class, grew up in a Christian family, etc. so they considered themselves Christains by association, but actually they never truly knew Christ. I grew up in the Bible Belt and there are a lot of people like this. They are "social Christians", but not Christians from the heart and mind.

Or they have had some tragedy or loss that hurt so deeply that they just felt like they could not count on God anymore so they turned their backs on Him because they felt He turned His back on them. But I think the people in this catagory usually make their way back to God after all the anger, bitterness and hurt dies down.

Finally, I would put the last catagory in the same lump as the first catagory. People who have been really hurt by other "Christians" so they just leave God. But I think this catagory can`t be real Christians either because a true Christian knows humans are sinful but God is not. Humans can be hateful and cruel to one another sometimes purposely and sometimes well meaning but still inflicting pain. Christians know we can`t judge God by each other because we make very poor reflections of Him.


The Bible talks about people like this in the parable of the seeds. Some fall to rocky soil and shoot up quickly. They look like they are "on fire" Christians for God but when trouble comes they die out. These are not the true Christians. They just look like it.

 

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Who here is saying they aren't faulty?

Then if you are cool with being called faulty then why did you say this?

Most of the people I have talked to ( see, I'm voicing this in opinion) who were never a Christian, or left Christianity is because the religion demands you accept that you are trash

If being told your trash is not a problem then why do people leave or reject Christianity because of it?

Christianity is one of those very religions as well. It serves the exact same function every other religion on Earth has filled. Gives people instant answers and the notion they can escape pain or gain something. Its no different from any other religion in that regard.

You know, its ironic getting a pride lecture from someone who is being really condescending and preachy.

See you are offended at being told your faulty. Of cource i have never stated that i am without fault. You see a messanger gives the Message of the one who is the Author of the Message. You see the message as coming for just another faulty human being (Me), Thats why you see me as "condescending and prechy" because you see the message as coming from me. But no i am transfering the message from the Word of God to you.

What? Your intentionally vague concept based on assumptions and a condescending attitude? I don't know who you are even talking to, let alone feel offended by it.

Of cource you feel offended by it, thats why you see me as being Condescending. See the message is having an emotional effect on you because it is going to your conscience.

Which you can't define without being vague and these arguments always surface after someone fails to present solid evidence. Its a threat masked as concern.

Ahhh prove it, prove it, prove it. I believe what i said there. Pride comes before destruction. You want to see it as coming from a threatening attitude because your offended. But it is simply what i believe and i said it with your interests in mind.

You are assuming I'm trusting only in myself.

I don't assume i read what you said:

"I'm not abandoning my understanding or critical thinking"

You said it in a clear and direct way.

You haven't asked me where my trust is in,

I did not have to ask, you made it clear for me.

so you went ahead and started lambasting me over pride and self loving.

Ohh lambasting every emotive from an offended person.

I think you need to step off the pulpit and make sure you have your facts straight before you try and be a an authority about my own thoughts.

Lambasting?? who is lambasting here Lance.

And that wisdom came from Socartese who was burned for being a heritical atheist.

Did it. I came to that realisation when i was young. Never knew Socartese thought it to. I guess nothing new under the sun is true as the Bible says.

Doing the best with the information we have and not falling into assumptions that make us look foolish.

You haven't yet proved that there even is a God, let alone your specific God. I don't think I'll take your word for it either, especially since you seem to talk for other people, and this entire post was nothing but manipulative intellectual dishonesty.

Sad. Talk about dishonestly pasting false intentions upon me. Guess what, God has chosen a Way to draw people to Salvation and your pride is probably the main block you are cursed with that will impede your way to it. I hope God teaches you contrition. Remember the Meek shall inherit the earth.

Ohm!

Mockery of the Ancient of Days. May you be forgiven.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Then if you are cool with being called faulty then why did you say this?

If being told your trash is not a problem then why do people leave or reject Christianity because of it?

You're are purposely being manipulative here. Being not perfect and trash are completely different concepts. The idea that I have my faults and the idea that I'm not even worthy to live are no where near each other. I take offense from people trying to tear me down in order to prop me up with a security blanket instead of actually trying to help me.

See you are offended at being told your faulty.

No, but its not worth arguing about because you have already convinced yourself about how I feel.

Of cource i have never stated that i am without fault.

I never expected you to be witout fault. You are intelectually dishonest. Pretty massive fault right there.

You see a messanger gives the Message of the one who is the Author of the Message. You see the message as coming for just another faulty human being (Me), Thats why you see me as "condescending and prechy" because you see the message as coming from me. But no i am transfering the message from the Word of God to you.

No, you are condescending and preachy. I've met plenty of people who don't have to be manipulative in order to share their message about Jesus. You are just using you faulty position as an excuse. I guess its better to make excuses rather then evaluate your own actions.

Of cource you feel offended by it, thats why you see me as being Condescending. See the message is having an emotional effect on you because it is going to your conscience.

No, I'm actually quite calm. I hear these arguments all the time, so I'm quite bored with them. Right now you are trying to convince yourself and others that I'm offended because its easier then asking me my true position. Your pseudo psychological evaluation is very shallow.

Ahhh prove it, prove it, prove it.

Now who is getting emotional? What exactly do you want me to prove. I said your concept was vague, was exactly do I have to proove.?

I believe what i said there. Pride comes before destruction. You want to see it as coming from a threatening attitude because your offended. But it is simply what i believe and i said it with your interests in mind.

You are not even talking to me at this point. Just a made up version of me ( a straw man) in your head. You asked me any questions, but have talked at me this entire time. Its been a one way conversation. So, I'm not offended that you are lobbing accusations at a straw man. I feel bad for the straw man though.

I don't assume i read what you said:

You said it in a clear and direct way.

And you are creating a person to argue at by quote mining my post. It is an assumption because you didn't ask for any clarification. I'm not going to defend myself against false accusations from someone who has already made up their mind.

I did not have to ask, you made it clear for me.

Then you are a fool who has no interest in being honest.

Ohh lambasting every emotive from an offended person.[/quote\ *yawn*

Lambasting?? who is lambasting here Lance.

You, very simple.

Did it. I came to that realisation when i was young. Never knew Socartese thought it to. I guess nothing new under the sun is true as the Bible says.

Sad. Talk about dishonestly pasting false intentions upon me. Guess what, God has chosen a Way to draw people to Salvation and your pride is probably the main block you are cursed with that will impede your way to it. I hope God teaches you contrition. Remember the Meek shall inherit the earth.

Coming from an indevidual who spent this entire post trying to convince others I'm offended and prideful, while admitting to not even asking me my position.
To me, it should be plain as day that you are very dishonest, and the posters who know me will know my actual position. These smoke and mirror tricks don't work as well online, since you don't have an audience to draw from.

Mockery of the Ancient of Days. May you be forgiven.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Oh well, the Hindus think you guys are crazy because their religion dates farther back then the oldest manuscripts of the Bible, and some of their symbols have made it into your religion.

 

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You're are purposely being manipulative here. Being not perfect and trash are completely different concepts. The idea that I have my faults and the idea that I'm not even worthy to live are no where near each other. I take offense from people trying to tear me down in order to prop me up with a security blanket instead of actually trying to help me.

I personaly have no problem being called trash in comparrison to God because i know God is perfect and my rightiousness compared to His is as filthy rags. And note you where the one who introduced the word Trash into this conversation.

I don't call people trash. It is enough for me to let them know they they fall short of perfection and can never achieve perfection and need God to redeem them and make them perfect again upon the resurection. I am cool with being called trash in comparrision with God because i know God wants to recycle me .

No, but its not worth arguing about because you have already convinced yourself about how I feel.
I never expected you to be witout fault. You are intelectually dishonest. Pretty massive fault right there.

Come now, your anger and hate is clear to see, you ridicule Christians, you denigrate us in nearly every post you post in here.

No, you are condescending and preachy. I've met plenty of people who don't have to be manipulative in order to share their message about Jesus. You are just using you faulty position as an excuse. I guess its better to make excuses rather then evaluate your own actions.

No, I'm actually quite calm. I hear these arguments all the time, so I'm quite bored with them. Right now you are trying to convince yourself and others that I'm offended because its easier then asking me my true position. Your pseudo psychological evaluation is very shallow.

You not decieving anyone. You use too much <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->provocative speech for anyone to see you as being a calm person.

Now who is getting emotional? What exactly do you want me to prove. I said your concept was vague, was exactly do I have to proove.?
You are not even talking to me at this point. Just a made up version of me ( a straw man) in your head. You asked me any questions, but have talked at me this entire time. Its been a one way conversation. So, I'm not offended that you are lobbing accusations at a straw man. I feel bad for the straw man though.



And you are creating a person to argue at by quote mining my post. It is an assumption because you didn't ask for any clarification. I'm not going to defend myself against false accusations from someone who has already made up their mind.

That prove it prove it prove it was actually me reflecting you. Didn't you get that.

Then you are a fool who has no interest in being honest.

You only know one way. Denegration. You show whats inside more and more each day you post here.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->Ok i have done a bit of reading Lance and i now know where all your hate is coming from.

You a homosexual Lance, isn't that correct?

And i would guess you’re a proud homosexual too?

I would think that what the bible says about men having sex with men. About it being an abomination to God would cause you offence, is that correct Lance?

Therefore anyone who is a Christian and especially the ones who come across as the most Bible believing Christians you would hate by association. Because if they believe the Bible they believe homosexuality is an abomination. Is that right Lance?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lance_Iguana]

I personaly have no problem being called trash in comparrison to God because i know God is perfect and my rightiousness compared to His is as filthy rags. And note you where the one who introduced the word Trash into this conversation.

Hey, if you like pessimistic, that is fine with me.

I don't call people trash. It is enough for me to let them know they they fall short of perfection and can never achieve perfection and need God to redeem them and make them perfect again upon the resurection. I am cool with being called trash in comparrision with God because i know God wants to recycle me .

That's cool.

Come now, your anger and hate is clear to see, you ridicule Christians, you denigrate us in nearly every post you post in here.

Nah, in this case you are confusing criticism against you as criticism against all Christians. I ask you remain humble and talk to me as yourself please.

You not decieving anyone. You use too much provocative speech for anyone to see you as being a calm person.

I disagree. My inflections can't bee seen through text. So you claiming my emotional state is not valid. You could easily ask me instead of assuming though.

That prove it prove it prove it was actually me reflecting you. Didn't you get that.

You didn't add any context to those words, so I shouldn't be expected to assume what you meant by it.

You only know one way. Denegration. You show whats inside more and more each day you post here.

I don't see where you are coming from. Especially since all you guys see of me for the most part are scattered responses in a few threads. Its not enough to get a full idea of my character or personality. Though if you want to assume who I am. You will be greatly misinformed if you ever met me in real life.

Your pseudo psychological analysis still hasn't even cracked the surface.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Ok i have done a bit of reading Lance and i now know where all your hate is coming from.

You a homosexual Lance, isn't that correct?

Yep, I like men. But since I don't hate people or really find anything negative about a general Christian, I don't see where you are getting hate from. I think you are misunderstanding my criticism for hate.

And i would guess you’re a proud homosexual too?

I'm not proud of it in the sense that I didn't decide to be gay in the first place. I'm just not ashamed of it anymore. My pride is in things I've actually done and with my friends.

I would think that what the bible says about men having sex with men. About it being an abomination to God would cause you offence, is that correct Lance?

The only offense I gather from it, is that God never explains why it is bad. Mosses and Paul just tended to list both as sins and abominations, but there is no context to it. Now with our modern understanding of actual homosexuality, it calls into question the real context both Paul and Mosses where even talking about.

Therefore anyone who is a Christian and especially the ones who come across as the most Bible believing Christians you would hate by association.

Not at all. I think you have a problem with discerning my dislike over a law with the beliefs of an individual.

Because if they believe the Bible they believe homosexuality is an abomination. Is that right Lance?

You are using a lot of loaded statements. I have people think about the context, but I don't hate anyone as a person.

 

[lamplady]

There are different names for it in different parts of the world i guess. It is when a feast is prepared and instead of serving people particular dishes all the different kinds of food is placed out usually on a big long central table. The people are given plates and they go up to the big table and walk around it picking out the foods that they like and passing over the foods that they don't like. Then they go back to their own tables and eat the selection of the food. That big long table is a smorgasbord.

Sounds like a buffet ... except tables are usually along sides,along walls ...

I have seen many people seemingly at one with God and they break away because they have lost a loved one or have suffered a personal tragedy. So that person looked upon The God that they where close to as a God that would keep them away from personal tragedies. Of course the God of Abraham has made no such promises about keeping us from the suffering that is common to this world.

The one I knew of was Catholic and he was quite high up - can't remember what rank but he fell away ...

 

[lamplady]

I would guess they were never truly a Christian to begin with meaning yes they may have gone to church 3 times a week, led a Sunday School class, grew up in a Christian family, etc. so they considered themselves Christains by association, but actually they never truly knew Christ. I grew up in the Bible Belt and there are a lot of people like this. They are "social Christians", but not Christians from the heart and mind.

Yes

Or they have had some tragedy or loss that hurt so deeply that they just felt like they could not count on God anymore so they turned their backs on Him because they felt He turned His back on them. But I think the people in this catagory usually make their way back to God after all the anger, bitterness and hurt dies down.

Finally, I would put the last catagory in the same lump as the first catagory. People who have been really hurt by other "Christians" so they just leave God. But I think this catagory can`t be real Christians either

This one is a little unfair because like the tragedy or loss if you have been deeply hurt by someone it can be very very difficult to find any sort of peace. It's true they probably didn't understand God's message at the start but I think it's these ones who have been pained badly often return to Jesus. Because it's only AFTER they've been hurt they, in the short or long term, realise what a resting place Jesus is ...

....

 

[pjt]

..This one is a little unfair because like the tragedy or loss if you have been deeply hurt by someone it can be very very difficult to find any sort of peace. It's true they probably didn't understand God's message at the start but I think it's these ones who have been pained badly often return to Jesus. Because it's only AFTER they've been hurt they, in the short or long term, realise what a resting place Jesus is ... ..

I think if the first one is fair then the third is equally fair. I have been deeply hurt by Christians myself but I never took the actions of another human as the actions of God. In the second example, lets say a mother loses a child, she can correctly conclude that God could have intervened so the hurt is between her and God. But in the case of one Christian hurting another it is between these two people. As Christians we understand all of us have sin and human nature can have very ugly qualities to it. In fact, a Christian has to practice spiritual discipline and put one`s faith into practice or the ugly qualities of human nature will rear its head in us just like anyone else. As Christians we can`t look at the ugly actions of others and blame God. This is a primary foundation of Christianity that humans are sinful and responsible for our own sins so we need our all perfect God to cleanse us. If we look at humans the same as God then we have never understood the faith to begin with, in my opinion.

 

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Yep, I like men. But since I don't hate people or really find anything negative about a general Christian, I don't see where you are getting hate from. I think you are misunderstanding my criticism for hate.

I'm not proud of it in the sense that I didn't decide to be gay in the first place. I'm just not ashamed of it anymore. My pride is in things I've actually done and with my friends.

The only offense I gather from it, is that God never explains why it is bad. Mosses and Paul just tended to list both as sins and abominations, but there is no context to it. Now with our modern understanding of actual homosexuality, it calls into question the real context both Paul and Mosses where even talking about.

Not at all. I think you have a problem with discerning my dislike over a law with the beliefs of an individual.You are using a lot of loaded statements. I have people think about the context, but I don't hate anyone as a person.

You mean to try and tell me that you believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and you being a homosexual are not offended by a book that tells you that it is an abomination? And you’re not offended at people who hold that same book up as true and good? Who are you trying to fool Lance.

One of the main messages of the Bible is that all men are sinners. All need the intervention of the Messiah Jesus to have eternal life. Homosexuality is a sin just like adultery or theft or murder. And guess what it is forgivable. There is only one sin that is unforgivable, that’s blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So i am sure that i will exist in eternity with former homosexuals. Repentant homosexuals.

But lance your not repentant are you. And the gay rights agenda is to tell homosexuals that there is nothing wrong with their sexual perversion and to have the general community believes the same thing. This is the deadly message of the homosexual movement. How many homosexuals will have eternal death like you lance?

The most deadly sin is the one not recognised. And that is the agenda of the gay rights movement, to have homosexuality no longer recognised as sin. But the Words of God stand and shall not fall. The homosexual rights agenda is eternal death to homosexuals.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

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There are different names for it in different parts of the world i guess. It is when a feast is prepared and instead of serving people particular dishes all the different kinds of food is placed out usually on a big long central table. The people are given plates and they go up to the big table and walk around it picking out the foods that they like and passing over the foods that they don't like. Then they go back to their own tables and eat the selection of the food. That big long table is a smorgasbord.

Sounds like a buffet ... except tables are usually along sides,along walls ...

Yes a buffet would be another name for it.

I have seen many people seemingly at one with God and they break away because they have lost a loved one or have suffered a personal tragedy. So that person looked upon The God that they where close to as a God that would keep them away from personal tragedies. Of course the God of Abraham has made no such promises about keeping us from the suffering that is common to this world.

The one I knew of was Catholic and he was quite high up - can't remember what rank but he fell away ...

You got to be filled with the knowledge of salvation to face the storms that seek to wash ones foundations away. Best to build on the Rock and Build with the full Word of God. I used to be a catholic and i know that religion is quicksand many in it fall away having never known the true Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lance_Iguana]

You mean to try and tell me that you believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuality

Yep. There is nothing wrong with it. Your own religion dosen't even demonstrate how it is even wrong. Just states it, and questionably.

and you being a homosexual are not offended by a book that tells you that it is an abomination?

Well, becuase if you want to be literal, the Bible never says homosexuality is a sin. But the act of having sex with same gender is a sin. That's not homosexuality. homosexuality was a term that we created a defintion for in the 19th century, and in the 20th century we did actual studies and solidified the idea of what the term homosexual, actually means. Which by the way, homosexuality isn't an action, its an orientation. That's it, the bible never goese into orientation, just acts.

Sorry to break it to ya. If you want to counter my claim, please show me the verse that says that a man can't have the feelings of love ( not lust, but actual love) for another man and same for women. There is no verse to my knowledge.

And you’re not offended at people who hold that same book up as true and good?

How can I be offended by a book that dosen't exist? I think you are confusing my offense over the ignorance of people here.

Who are you trying to fool Lance.

No one, since I don't hold the stance you claim I'm holding.

One of the main messages of the Bible is that all men are sinners. All need the intervention of the Messiah Jesus to have eternal life.

And I disagree with that.

Homosexuality is a sin just like adultery or theft or murder.

No its not, as I demonstrated above.

And guess what it is forgivable.

You have to demonstrate how your relgion is true first. This is why I don't give up my critical thinking skills. You are the one trying to tell me that there is somthing wrong with me and then trying to sell me the cure. Your religion is a circle.

There is only one sin that is unforgivable, that’s blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So i am sure that i will exist in eternity with former homosexuals. Repentant homosexuals.

How exactly, are you sure?

But lance your not repentant are you.

Because I have nothing to repent of . I have done nothing wrong. It is you who tying to tell me that I have pay for the actions of others and change for your religion. That sounds extremely fishy.

And the gay rights agenda is to tell homosexuals that there is nothing wrong with their sexual perversion and to have the general community believes the same thing.

The thing is, you have to demonstrate how homosexuality is wrong. If you can't demonstrate it, or give an argument that dosen't fall apart. Then why should anyone keep an idea that has no merit?

This is the deadly message of the homosexual movement.

Then expalin what is so bad about being a homosexual?

How many homosexuals will have eternal death like you lance?

All of us, because you can't demonstrate an afterlife. Until you can, I won't accept your claim that there even is an afterlife.

The most deadly sin is the one not recognised.

Then define what exactly it is. Instead of using vauge terminology.

And that is the agenda of the gay rights movement, to have homosexuality no longer recognised as sin.

Nope, its to gain the equal right that everyone else has under the constitution. It has nothing to do with your religion or sin.

But the Words of God stand and shall not fall. The homosexual rights agenda is eternal death to homosexuals.

Since, you can't demonstrate this, I won't accept this. This is nothing more then your opinion. That's it.

I think this has gone far enough. You don't understand that just because you say something, dosen't mean its true. If your argument have to rely on you telling people how they feel and what they think, then they will always fail.

You aren't conveying your religion's message by this at all, actually you are just stating your opinions and using your religion as your mask. You don't fool me.

Until you can show me something, I won't accept your stance, because there are many religions that offer me good things, and threaten me when I don't take it.

One last question, why is it important that you convey to others in this thread that I might be offended? Dose it matter?

 

[Adstar]

Yep. There is nothing wrong with it. Your own religion dosen't even demonstrate how it is even wrong. Just states it, and questionably. Well, becuase if you want to be literal, the Bible never says homosexuality is a sin. But the act of having sex with same gender is a sin. That's not homosexuality. homosexuality was a term that we created a defintion for in the 19th century, and in the 20th century we did actual studies and solidified the idea of what the term homosexual, actually means. Which by the way, homosexuality isn't an action, its an orientation. That's it, the bible never goese into orientation, just acts.

Sorry to break it to ya. If you want to counter my claim, please show me the verse that says that a man can't have the feelings of love ( not lust, but actual love) for another man and same for women. There is no verse to my knowledge.

How can I be offended by a book that dosen't exist? I think you are confusing my offense over the ignorance of people here. No one, since I don't hold the stance you claim I'm holding.

Ok lets get a firm clarification.

You never have sexual relations with other men and even think of doing so,you agree with the scriptures that men have sex with men is an abomination? Yes... No... ?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Ok lets get a firm clarification.

Finally

You never have sexual relations with other men and even think of doing so,you agree with the scriptures that men have sex with men is an abomination? Yes... No... ?

I'll answer your questions as soon as you answer the ones I posed to you in the post before this one. Until then, I won't play your game anymore.

If you want me to answer questions, answer mine. If you won't I'm done.

 

[Adstar]

Finally

I'll answer your questions as soon as you answer the ones I posed to you in the post before this one. Until then, I won't play your game anymore.

If you want me to answer questions, answer mine. If you won't I'm done.

Ok if you wish to walk away that is your decision.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Ok if you wish to walk away that is your decision.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I knew it, you never had the intention of being honest. This was all a show, and once the table was turned on you, you became a coward.

I gave you the information you wanted, but refuse to do the same for me.

Congratulation, you just reported for trolling.