What makes you a Christian

[XTruth]

Uh oh. Hope I didn't arrive to this conversation too late. Where it seems like things are going, we are in fact justified by faith, so I believe that my faith in Jesus' divinity and resurrection make me a Christian. Although it is written of those who fall away from the faith so what makes a person a real Christian? I'm not going to pretend to know everything on this matter, but Jesus said that if we love one another, then others will know that we are his disciples, so then we can know too, right?

Yes we are justified by faith, but if my faith does not allow me to believe in the divinity of Jesus, there is going to be some who say that I am NOT a christian.

To them the fruit of our lives counts for nothing, never mind that we love God and one another, and that we are born of His Spirit. So to me, 'faith' in Jesus divinity has nothing to do with making me a Christian.

7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son (2 Jn.).

 

[mutzrein]

Uh oh. Hope I didn't arrive to this conversation too late. Where it seems like things are going, we are in fact justified by faith, so I believe that my faith in Jesus' divinity and resurrection make me a Christian. Although it is written of those who fall away from the faith so what makes a person a real Christian? I'm not going to pretend to know everything on this matter, but Jesus said that if we love one another, then others will know that we are his disciples, so then we can know too, right?

Yes we are justified by faith, but if my faith does not allow me to believe in the divinity of Jesus, there is going to be some who say that I am NOT a christian.

To them the fruit of our lives counts for nothing, never mind that we love God and one another, and that we are born of His Spirit. So to me, 'faith' in Jesus divinity has nothing to do with making me a Christian.

7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son (2 Jn.).

What are you saying here? That I am a deceiver and an antichrist?

 

[Nick]

The gift of salvation through God's grace and mercy is so wonderfully simple. There really is no need to analyze it to pieces so that Christians and non-Christians alike end up trying to stay afloat in the sea of debate.

I accept Jesus as God's Son and as the Messiah.
I accept the Word as Truth.
I admit I am a sinner in need of a Savior.
I give my life, my will, fully over to Him.
I am saved.

(all of these statements can be categorized under the label "believe") I believe that is why Jesus said, "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Everything beyond belief is works and, while beneficial to the Christian and the kingdom, works are merely the icing on the cake.

 

[Godbless]

Please define the word belief ?

 

[JoJo]

Please define the word belief ?

In the context of "believing" in Jesus in order to be saved, I would define "believe" as:

Believing Jesus is God's Son
Believing Jesus is Lord
Believing Jesus is Messiah
Believing Jesus died for my sins
Believing God's Word as Truth
Believing Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate sacrifice, wholly sufficient to save my soul and yours.

 

[Cornelius]

Uh oh. Hope I didn't arrive to this conversation too late. Where it seems like things are going, we are in fact justified by faith, so I believe that my faith in Jesus' divinity and resurrection make me a Christian. Although it is written of those who fall away from the faith so what makes a person a real Christian? I'm not going to pretend to know everything on this matter, but Jesus said that if we love one another, then others will know that we are his disciples, so then we can know too, right?

Yes we are justified by faith, but if my faith does not allow me to believe in the divinity of Jesus, there is going to be some who say that I am NOT a christian.

To them the fruit of our lives counts for nothing, never mind that we love God and one another, and that we are born of His Spirit. So to me, 'faith' in Jesus divinity has nothing to do with making me a Christian.

7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son (2 Jn.).

Thank you Xtruth for all your detailed posts. I know not everybody will read them, but they should, because you have based your posts on the Word.

blessings
C

 

[JoJo]

Believing Jesus is God's Son see John 3:16
Believing Jesus is Lord see Romans 10:9
Believing Jesus is Messiah see John 1:41
Believing Jesus died for my sins see Hebrews 9:15
Believing God's Word as Truth see Psalm 119:160
Believing Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate sacrifice, wholly sufficient to save my soul and yours. see 1 Peter 3:18

Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

 

[Cornelius]

Believing Jesus is God's Son see John 3:16
Believing Jesus is Lord see Romans 10:9
Believing Jesus is Messiah see John 1:41
Believing Jesus died for my sins see Hebrews 9:15
Believing God's Word as Truth see Psalm 119:160
Believing Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate sacrifice, wholly sufficient to save my soul and yours. see 1 Peter 3:18

Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

That is correct, these are some scriptures that allows you , your first step to exit "Egypt"

Now you must start your walk so that Egypt can also be taken out of you. As Xtruth has explained in detail, if you died right after your "entrance" (like the robber on the cross) you would enter, but now a strange thing happens, the longer you live, the more responsible you become, (your light increases) and God now wants you to walk in this light. Failure to produce the Fruit of the Kingdom, can bring reprobation. 1Co 9:27 but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Here is what the word rejected means: ἀδÌκιμοÂ
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

I know very well what the modern church preach to their flocks, but that does not make it correct.They differ from what the Bible says..

C

 

[Cornelius]

I am sure you are familiar with the lamb that Israel had to eat in Egypt? Well, then you should read that again, because that is also the story of Christianity . Paul tells us this is the purpose of the Old Testament:
1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
Good, now that we understand that the Old is actually our story in "picture form" let us look at the lamb (Lamb/Word of God/Jesus)Exo 12:9 Eat not of it raw, nor boiled at all with water, but roast with fire; its head with its legs and with the inwards thereof.

Now you know that the blood first had to go on the doorposts, and the angel of Death flew over (that symbolizes initial salvation , notice they are still in Egypt ) Now they have to eat the head 1Co 2:16 .......Rom 12:2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. so we must have the mind of Christ , that is why we "eat " the head of the Lamb. Then we must eat the legs1Jn 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked. That is why they had to eat the legs, to show us that we must walk as the Lamb walked.

Now they still have to eat the inwards or inside of of the lamb.2Co 4:16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day. Christ IN you the hope of glory.

At this point of salvation, the journey has not started yet. The Christian is only made ready for the journey, but unfortunately this is where most Christians get off the bus and pitch their tents and stay.............

 

[lou11]

Looks like no one cited James 2:17,18

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

This says that only such faith that is accompanied by good works saves a person. Christ said by their fruits you shall know them. The devils that believe show by their deeds that they are still in rebellion against God. Likewise anyone that claims to believe and continues live like an infidel is no Christian.

 

[JoJo]

if you died right after your "entrance" (like the robber on the cross) you would enter

Thank you, Cornelius for all your insight. This is exactly what I wanted to hear from you.

As for those of us who don't die right after salvation, if we are true Christians we will "walk the walk" not just "talk the talk." As for the possibility of losing your salvation, that is another debate... :yes

Looks like no one cited James 2:17,18

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

This says that only such faith that is accompanied by good works saves a person. Christ said by their fruits you shall know them. The devils that believe show by their deeds that they are still in rebellion against God. Likewise anyone that claims to believe and continues live like an infidel is no Christian.

Nick addressed this.

Of course some might argue that faith without works is nothing. I believe this, and it is biblically supported. But some take this out of context, and think that to be saved you need faith and works. This is not true. To be saved you need faith, and faith alone.
What I believe the statement of "faith without works is nothing" means is that faith without works is 'dead' faith. Works should be a response to your faith. Christ should be in your life. People should look at you and think "That person is Christian". But you do not need this to be saved.

 

[Cornelius]

In reality the loosing of salvation or as the Bible calls it "reprobation" is very much part of this discussion. The worldly church teaches a greasy gospel that teaches that you cannot be reprobated.

As most Christians under this teaching will show, they do not understand that the initial salvation is the "many are called" (The word "called" meaning "invited" ) and that when your life ends, you will see if you are "chosen" out of those that were invited. Because many are indeed invited , but at the end, few are chosen. We have to complete the race and bear fruit.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to them that love him.

You will see that the Bible says that first comes the temptation, then approval, then a crown if life (eternal life) Again and again, the Bible points out conditions to salvation.

First your spirit is saved, but your soul is not and must now be saved through the renewal of your mind. Lastly , your body will be saved IF your soul bears the fruit of Jesus Christ.

 

[Cornelius]

2Ti 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.

Lets break it down:
1)I have fought the good fight,
2) I have finished the course
3) I have kept the faith:

what is the result of this:

henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.

Paul knew he needed a crown of righteousness to enter into the kingdom:

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Guess we all going to need that crown.

 

[JoJo]

And isn't it wonderful that, through Christ, we will receive that crown! Praise the Lord!

Did the scribes and the Pharisees believe in Jesus as their Messiah?

Romans 3:21-23 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

 

[Cornelius]

And isn't it wonderful that, through Christ, we will receive that crown! Praise the Lord!

Did the scribes and the Pharisees believe in Jesus as their Messiah?

Romans 3:21-23 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

That is correct.

I know that you think I am preaching salvation through works, but nothing can be further from the truth.
But I am preaching a conditional salvation and I do know that the Bible says that we can loose it. I also know many believe that we cannot (I have been on forums for a few years )but the fact that some believe that, does not change what the Bible teaches, just the same as the fact that an atheist denies that there is a God, does not make it so. God still is and so is His Word.

 

[XTruth]

And isn't it wonderful that, through Christ, we will receive that crown! Praise the Lord!

Did the scribes and the Pharisees believe in Jesus as their Messiah?

Romans 3:21-23 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

"Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown (Rev.3:11)." What would be the object of this statement if there was no possibility of a Christian losing his crown? "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life (Rev.2:10)." " And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully (2 Tim.2:5)."

 

[JoJo]

And isn't it wonderful that, through Christ, we will receive that crown! Praise the Lord!

Did the scribes and the Pharisees believe in Jesus as their Messiah?

Romans 3:21-23 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

"Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown (Rev.3:11)." What would be the object of this statement if there was no possibility of a Christian losing his crown? "

I don't know, because earlier in this passage, John writes, "he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it..." (see vs. 7-8)

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life (Rev.2:10).

...Cast SOME of you into prison. Does that mean everyone who is not cast into prison by the devil and tried for ten days will not receive a crown of life?

See, this is what happens when we start looking at certain specific verses as "conditions" for salvation.

 

[Nick]

Looks like no one cited James 2:17,18

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

This says that only such faith that is accompanied by good works saves a person. Christ said by their fruits you shall know them. The devils that believe show by their deeds that they are still in rebellion against God. Likewise anyone that claims to believe and continues live like an infidel is no Christian.

I addressed that eariler in the topic.

 

[XTruth]

Looks like no one cited James 2:17,18

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

This says that only such faith that is accompanied by good works saves a person. Christ said by their fruits you shall know them. The devils that believe show by their deeds that they are still in rebellion against God. Likewise anyone that claims to believe and continues live like an infidel is no Christian.

I addressed that eariler in the topic.

Yes you did address that earlier, right after you spoke so highly of context and then said that James 2:17, 20, 26 does not mean that to be saved you need faith and works. When in context, that's exactly opposite of what James says in verse 24. Then I showed you that verse... "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (Jas.2:24)." Then I said this... The same Greek word for "faith," as used in James 2 is the same Greek word for "believe," as used in John 3. That Greekj word is "pisteuo," which implies obedience, not a mere acceptance of a historical fact. W/o taking away or adding to Scripture, James 2:17 could have just as easily been translated, "Believing w/o obedience to the One you profess a belief in, makes that belief worthless."

 

[XTruth]

See, this is what happens when we start looking at certain specific verses as "conditions" for salvation.

No, this what happens when you try and show people plain, clearly written and easily understood warnings and they say anything else in order to hold on to wrong doctrines. Rev.3:11 plainly states that Christians can lose their crown.

As for the church of Philadelphia, the reason no man can shut the open door b4 them is b/c they have kept Jesus' Word and not denied His name. It's the same as Jn.10:25-29 when Jesus says no man can pluck one out of His hand that is following Him. Or it is the same as the warning about those who God will deny knowing and cast into hell b/c they were workers of iniquity and did not do the will of God, though professing Him on earth (Mat.7:21-23). You have no idea how many examples I could give you, but if you can't plainly see that a Christian can lose his crown (Rev.3:11) and have his name taken out of the book of life (1 Enoch 108:3; Ex.32:32-33; Ps.69:28; Rev.2:5; 22:18-19), then I'll stop here.