What makes you a Christian

[JoJo]

Thank you.

 

[mutzrein]

Hi XTruth - I'd appreciate it if you would explain the message you were intending to convey after quoting my previous post in this thread.

Thanks

 

[XTruth]

Uh oh. Hope I didn't arrive to this conversation too late. Where it seems like things are going, we are in fact justified by faith, so I believe that my faith in Jesus' divinity and resurrection make me a Christian. Although it is written of those who fall away from the faith so what makes a person a real Christian? I'm not going to pretend to know everything on this matter, but Jesus said that if we love one another, then others will know that we are his disciples, so then we can know too, right?

Yes we are justified by faith, but if my faith does not allow me to believe in the divinity of Jesus, there is going to be some who say that I am NOT a christian.

To them the fruit of our lives counts for nothing, never mind that we love God and one another, and that we are born of His Spirit. So to me, 'faith' in Jesus divinity has nothing to do with making me a Christian.

7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son (2 Jn.).

If your faith does not allow you you to believe the divinity of Christ, then you are no more a Christian than an Agnostic. By denying that God came to the earth in the flesh and was Jesus the Messiah, you don't abide in the doctrine of Christ, therefore you have neither God or Christ. This is the spirit of Antichrist.

 

[Nick]

If your faith does not allow you you to believe the divinity of Christ, then you are no more a Christian than an Agnostic.

Ahhh...something we agree on.

 

[mutzrein]

Thanks again XTruth. For clarification then, I did not mean to say that I personally do not believe in the divinity of Christ, for I do. I do however make a distinction between Jesus being divine (God’s son) and Jesus being deity (God himself) and I was looking to invoke a response from those who say that you have to believe that Jesus is God in order to be a Christian.

 

[Nick]

believing in God or believing in Jesus does not make you a Christian. What does, is having faith in what Jesus did on the cross, and that he died and rose again to save us. Of course, having faith first requires you to believe, but remember that faith and belief are two different things.

 

[mutzrein]

believing in God or believing in Jesus does not make you a Christian. What does, is having faith in what Jesus did on the cross, and that he died and rose again to save us. Of course, having faith first requires you to believe, but remember that faith and belief are two different things.

Are they? What do you make of these then?

Galatians 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Romans 4:9 We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.

 

[Shyrwynn]

God makes you a Christian. No one else can. The question to ask though is why do you want God to make you a christian?

 

[Nick]

Galatians 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

The passage states that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness, not Abraham believed in God and it was credit to him as righteousness. There is a big difference. As we all know, Abraham certainly had faith in God, but this verse does not say that. But it doesn't say that he believed in God and that was enough.

Romans 4:9 We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.

That supports what I am saying - Abraham's FAITH. Not Abraham's BELIEF.

 

[Cornelius]

Most people here seem to have a good grasp of what it takes to start the Christian walk.
Few on here (but not all) , seems to care much about the walk itself.
Few seems to understand the meaning or importance of bearing fruit as a sign of salvation
Many misunderstand the fruit and see it only as "good works" resulting from being a Christian.

 

[mutzrein]

Galatians 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

The passage states that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness, not Abraham believed in God and it was credit to him as righteousness. There is a big difference. As we all know, Abraham certainly had faith in God, but this verse does not say that. But it doesn't say that he believed in God and that was enough.

Romans 4:9 We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.

That supports what I am saying - Abraham's FAITH. Not Abraham's BELIEF.

Good on ya mate - I thought that was what you were driving at.

It was your comment, "Of course, having faith first requires you to believe . . ." that drew my attention. If you had of said something like, "Of course, having faith first requires you to have belief in . . ." would have made it clearer for me.

Perhaps I was just being a little too pedantic.

Blessings

 

[mutzrein]

Most people here seem to have a good grasp of what it takes to start the Christian walk.
Few on here (but not all) , seems to care much about the walk itself.
Few seems to understand the meaning or importance of bearing fruit as a sign of salvation
Many misunderstand the fruit and see it only as "good works" resulting from being a Christian.

Yes - it is by our fruit that we are known.

Consider the parable of the sower. It was only the seed that fell on good soil that produced fruit.

 

[Nick]

fruit does not have to be good works. it can come in many forms. and I believe in fruits of the spirit etc, I am just saying that to start the Christian walk you just need salvation (faith).

 

[Cornelius]

fruit does not have to be good works. it can come in many forms. and I believe in fruits of the spirit etc, I am just saying that to start the Christian walk you just need salvation (faith).

That is correct, you need faith, which is given to you as a gift. You also need to receive a gift of repentance. Then you are ready to enter.

Now this is where most of the church stop and sigh a sigh a relief, thinking " Ah, now that is done. I am saved for ever. Praise God"


But the parable of the sower, tells us this it not true.

Here is one type of Christian. Notice that the Word has been received by this person:
Mat 13:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth.

now a next type of Christian :

Mat 13:22 And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
these bear no fruit too and fall away



Now this is another group:

Mat 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now these are going to heaven.The others are not.They did not finish the race ,they started and entered , but fell away and did not bear fruit. The fruit is Christ.

 

[Albert Finch]

Living unto God, in the power of Christ, as He lives in me.








Albert Finch
http://www.thekeys2kingdom.com

 

[Cornelius]

Living unto God, in the power of Christ, as He lives in me.








Albert Finch
http://www.thekeys2kingdom.com

Good answer !

 

[Godbless]

Meaning, Reconciliation, Creation............................

 

[lou11]

That is correct, you need faith, which is given to you as a gift. You also need to receive a gift of repentance. Then you are ready to enter.

Yes, both faith and repentance are gifts of God, a direct consequence of the second birth, but I don't think they can be separated. They have been likened to two sides of the same coin, one never present without the other.

 

[Nick]

That is correct, you need faith, which is given to you as a gift. You also need to receive a gift of repentance. Then you are ready to enter.

Yes, both faith and repentance are gifts of God, a direct consequence of the second birth, but I don't think they can be separated. They have been likened to two sides of the same coin, one never present without the other.

I agree. You can't have one without having the other. They come together.