Bible Study What Might Be Valid Indicators Any Given Theologian's Doctrine Is Correct?

[Hopeful]

Adherence to holiness is just a term, since actual holiness cannot either be defined or demonstrated without seeing a person's heart.

It can and is "demonstrated", by actions.
The holy don't lie, steal, commit adultery, kill, etc.

Scriptural backing is used for multitudes of Doctrinal error, such as the horrors of Calvinism.

Yes, I am aware of that, but scripture is also used to refute misinterpretation of scripture.
If the end result of a doctrine promotes...demonstrates... freedom from sin, it is from God.
If it doesn't, it is NOT from God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Please tell us the practical means for how we test the spirits.

Please recall there is more to an answer than the fuzzy, default statement "By Using Scripture and Prayer." For instance, I am curious:

1.) Exactly what is there to pray for? What has been your consistent experience upon answered prayer to discern the spirits? Do you have an actual testimony of doing that?

2.) What Scripture have you personally used to discern, say, 5 spirits? How did you know the spirits existed?

3.) We're they actual supernatural spirits, or were they just "How a person's spirit seemed to be?"

Thanks for your help on this. Blessings.

Are you against using scripture in order to answer a question? Is there any Spiritual truth that comes from a carnal mind of logical thinking? The Holy Spirit has already taught us how to Spiritually discern what is truth or error as when we truly listen to the Holy Spirit teaching us then we can Spiritually discern that of what others are teaching us to be truth or error.

Test the Spirits
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1 John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Fastfredy0: Absolute truth is elusive.

Do you have an example of that?

Yes, Assuming "absolute" means "without error" and truth mean "factually correct" ...

• <1% of Christian believe they can continue till physical death without sinning. So truth is either elusive to 1% of Christians or 99%
• 60% of Christians are Roman Catholics while 40% are protestant. So truth is either elusive to 60% of Christians or 40%

Etc. etc.

I don't think truth is hidden at all.

Perhaps you don't mean use the term "Absolute Truth" as I do. Absolutre=(not qualified or diminished in any way; total). If you know all things totally, then that would make you God.
Deut. 29:29
Aside: I wish I knew all the errors in my theology

 

[Fastfredy0]

Why did you add [from the penalty of sin] ??

My quote of John 8:32 is from the AMP version which inserts [ ]s

I think, I hope, that it is understood that freedom from sin also negates any penalty for that which we don't do.

I agree .... In the context of the discussion about 'absolute truth' and John 8:32 I believe many are saved that are ignorant of what is the total truth about salvation. For example, some believe you have to be water baptized to be saved. I believe this is incorrect, yet I believe said person who believes water baptism is necessary is saved.
Also, whereas a component of saving faith is content and if you asked 100 Christians what they must believe or not believe (content) to be saved you will get 90 different answers. Again, this indicates Christians do NOT have ABSOLUTE (TOTAL) TRUTH... their doctrine is fallible.

 

[Jacob62]

It can and is "demonstrated", by actions.
The holy don't lie, steal, commit adultery, kill, etc.


Yes, I am aware of that, but scripture is also used to refute misinterpretation of scripture.
If the end result of a doctrine promotes...demonstrates... freedom from sin, it is from God.
If it doesn't, it is NOT from God.

Speaking broadly referenced ideals accomplishes nothing but more speculation.

Do you ever decide if doctrine you hear spoken is true? Or does it all kind of somehow fit together?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, Assuming "absolute" means "without error" and truth mean "factually correct" ...

• <1% of Christian believe they can continue till physical death without sinning. So truth is either elusive to 1% of Christians or 99%
• 60% of Christians are Roman Catholics while 40% are protestant. So truth is either elusive to 60% of Christians or 40%

Etc. etc.


Perhaps you don't mean use the term "Absolute Truth" as I do. Absolutre=(not qualified or diminished in any way; total). If you know all things totally, then that would make you God.
Deut. 29:29
Aside: I wish I knew all the errors in my theology

All truth is absolute, or it isn't truth.
The bible contains everything you need to determine if a doctrine, or even theology, is in error.
If you think there are errors, it is your duty to find them.
To allow them to remain, makes you complicit in the error.

 

[Hopeful]

My quote of John 8:32 is from the AMP version which inserts [ ]s


I agree .... In the context of the discussion about 'absolute truth' and John 8:32 I believe many are saved that are ignorant of what is the total truth about salvation. For example, some believe you have to be water baptized to be saved. I believe this is incorrect, yet I believe said person who believes water baptism is necessary is saved.
Also, whereas a component of saving faith is content and if you asked 100 Christians what they must believe or not believe (content) to be saved you will get 90 different answers. Again, this indicates Christians do NOT have ABSOLUTE (TOTAL) TRUTH... their doctrine is fallible.

What that indicates is that hardly anyone actually knows what the truth is.
But that doesn't mean there is no truth.
Like the interpreters of that version of the bible...
By inserting an irrelevant fact into Jesus words, they skew the whole message of John 8:32-34.
The truth will free us from service to sin.

 

[Hopeful]

Speaking broadly referenced ideals accomplishes nothing but more speculation.

What did my post make you speculate about?

Do you ever decide if doctrine you hear spoken is true?

Absolutely!

Or does it all kind of somehow fit together?

Clean and unclean cannot "fit together".

 

[Fastfredy0]

All truth is absolute, or it isn't truth.
The bible contains everything you need to determine if a doctrine, or even theology, is in error.
If you think there are errors, it is your duty to find them.
To allow them to remain, makes you complicit in the error.

We have a communication issue. Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough to get my point across. I'll drop it.

 

[Hopeful]

We have a communication issue. Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough to get my point across. I'll drop it.

OK...

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How should we decide?

Jas 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7
For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[Christ_empowered]

this is an interesting thread. i'm falling out of love with Calvinism 101 (dilettante, never a serious adherent), in -part- because of some of the (ahem) flaws of theologians. happens. :-( 'ye shall know a tree by the fruit it bears,' of course.

the uber-Arminian theology of Pentecostals is also proving...less than satisfying. "Make a decision for Jesus!" "re-dedicate your life to Jesus" "don't lose your salvation" on and on, meanwhile on a -personal level- I've found far too many conspiracy theories, too much hate, too much knee jerk reactionary 'conservatism' for me to join up.

so, where does that leave me? childish as this may sound, I focus more on The Gospels, now. not that I ignore and/or neglect/disregard the OT, just...The Gospels are action-packed, amen. I'm also leaning more towards an interest in cultivating a Christian worldview that -I think+believe- lines up more with Jesus' teachings and ministry, per Scripture...

poor people matter, too...weaklings matter, too...'love your neighbor as yourself, and love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all of your soul,' and...here's an OT one, I'm leaning on more and more: Micah 6:8 .

I read on my conflict theory/marxist news analysis site something insightful....religion tends to serve the interests of the powerful. sad, but...-sigh-...true, I think. :-(

 

[Hopeful]

this is an interesting thread. i'm falling out of love with Calvinism 101 (dilettante, never a serious adherent), in -part- because of some of the (ahem) flaws of theologians. happens. :-( 'ye shall know a tree by the fruit it bears,' of course.

the uber-Arminian theology of Pentecostals is also proving...less than satisfying. "Make a decision for Jesus!" "re-dedicate your life to Jesus" "don't lose your salvation" on and on, meanwhile on a -personal level- I've found far too many conspiracy theories, too much hate, too much knee jerk reactionary 'conservatism' for me to join up.

so, where does that leave me? childish as this may sound, I focus more on The Gospels, now. not that I ignore and/or neglect/disregard the OT, just...The Gospels are action-packed, amen. I'm also leaning more towards an interest in cultivating a Christian worldview that -I think+believe- lines up more with Jesus' teachings and ministry, per Scripture...

poor people matter, too...weaklings matter, too...'love your neighbor as yourself, and love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all of your soul,' and...here's an OT one, I'm leaning on more and more: Micah 6:8 .

LOVE IT !

I read on my conflict theory/marxist news analysis site something insightful....religion tends to serve the interests of the powerful. sad, but...-sigh-...true, I think. :-(

Not the pure religion of James 1:27.
The powerful want nothing to do with God.
The holy want nothing to do with the world.
The holy want what God showed us in Micah 6:8.

 

[AChristianStoic]

This is a topic I've thought about quite a bit. After going through the thread so far, I thought I'd offer some of my own metrics.

1) What fruit grows out of his ministry? Are people transformed for the better after listening to him? Are marriages saved? Attitudes improved? Are you better or worse for having found his teachings?

2) Is the teaching healthy and corrective, or does it seem unhealthy? Is he flattering you? Patronizing you? Abusing you? Does it seem like you're entering a bad relationship?

3) Does he display reverence for God's word? Whether or not he says it's all true, and whether or not he's exegeting line by line... does he act like he's handling something sacred? Does he act like he's truly afraid to get it wrong?

4) How does he handle objections to his teachings?

5) Is his teaching grounded in a broad understanding of the church? Does he know what else is out there?

6) Would he suffer to hold to his teachings? Would he die for it? Has he carried them through a series of trials?

7) How did he come about to hold these opinions?

8) Does he get jealous if you're reading his opponents in the church?

9) Does his teaching come before common fellowship of the rest of the body?

10) Do you detect deception, deflection, or bullying tactics when he debates opponents?

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a topic I've thought about quite a bit. After going through the thread so far, I thought I'd offer some of my own metrics.

1) What fruit grows out of his ministry? Are people transformed for the better after listening to him? Are marriages saved? Attitudes improved? Are you better or worse for having found his teachings?

2) Is the teaching healthy and corrective, or does it seem unhealthy? Is he flattering you? Patronizing you? Abusing you? Does it seem like you're entering a bad relationship?

3) Does he display reverence for God's word? Whether or not he says it's all true, and whether or not he's exegeting line by line... does he act like he's handling something sacred? Does he act like he's truly afraid to get it wrong?

4) How does he handle objections to his teachings?

5) Is his teaching grounded in a broad understanding of the church? Does he know what else is out there?

6) Would he suffer to hold to his teachings? Would he die for it? Has he carried them through a series of trials?

7) How did he come about to hold these opinions?

8) Does he get jealous if you're reading his opponents in the church?

9) Does his teaching come before common fellowship of the rest of the body?

10) Do you detect deception, deflection, or bullying tactics when he debates opponents?

These are very good questions to ask ourselves when others are teaching us. Thank you for sharing this list as it is most helpful when studying the Bible.

 

[Tessa]

This is a topic I've thought about quite a bit. After going through the thread so far, I thought I'd offer some of my own metrics.

1) What fruit grows out of his ministry? Are people transformed for the better after listening to him? Are marriages saved? Attitudes improved? Are you better or worse for having found his teachings?

2) Is the teaching healthy and corrective, or does it seem unhealthy? Is he flattering you? Patronizing you? Abusing you? Does it seem like you're entering a bad relationship?

3) Does he display reverence for God's word? Whether or not he says it's all true, and whether or not he's exegeting line by line... does he act like he's handling something sacred? Does he act like he's truly afraid to get it wrong?

4) How does he handle objections to his teachings?

5) Is his teaching grounded in a broad understanding of the church? Does he know what else is out there?

6) Would he suffer to hold to his teachings? Would he die for it? Has he carried them through a series of trials?

7) How did he come about to hold these opinions?

8) Does he get jealous if you're reading his opponents in the church?

9) Does his teaching come before common fellowship of the rest of the body?

10) Do you detect deception, deflection, or bullying tactics when he debates opponents?

Love this post.

 

[Jacob62]

All truth is absolute, or it isn't truth.
The bible contains everything you need to determine if a doctrine, or even theology, is in error.
If you think there are errors, it is your duty to find them.
To allow them to remain, makes you complicit in the error.

Who are you to say it is his duty to find the errors?

 

[Jacob62]

Are you against using scripture in order to answer a question? Is there any Spiritual truth that comes from a carnal mind of logical thinking? The Holy Spirit has already taught us how to Spiritually discern what is truth or error as when we truly listen to the Holy Spirit teaching us then we can Spiritually discern that of what others are teaching us to be truth or error.

Test the Spirits
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1 John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

"The Holy Spirit has taught us?"

Yet, you cannot give any examples of how to test the spirits. Your comments and assertions merely circumvent the topic.