What Pleased Our Father

[journeymanisnothing]

Our Father was pleased by how his Son endured sinful conduct, such as

Then some of them began to spit at him, and they blindfolded him and beat him with their fists. “Prophesy to us,” they jeered. And the guards slapped him as they took him away. Mk.14:65

And much worse. No loving father would be gratified by the abuse of his son. In fact, the Bible shows us even fools know what God will do to those who tortured Christ,

He will put those wretches to a miserable death Mt.21:41

For Jesus to have showed the fruit of the Spirit in the face of that adversity is astounding. Just like our Father,

I and my Father are one. Jn.10:30

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father Jn.14:9

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. Jn.8:29

You are my beloved Son; with you I am well-pleased. Lk.3:22

Such beliefs as our Father forsaking his Son us just so contrary to the truth.

 

[Free]

Such beliefs as our Father forsaking his Son us just so contrary to the truth.

And yet:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (ESV)

Looks like the Son asking why the Father has forsaken him to me.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

And yet:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (ESV)

Looks like the Son asking why the Father has forsaken him to me.

It does look that way, but lets look at the circumstances under which Jesus said that.

First off, the people regarded as scholars of the OT were at the cross. They thought Jesus was abandoned by God,
Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save. Mk.15:31

Seconly, Jesus quoted from Psa.22, which those mocking him knew verbatim.

Thirdly, Psa.22 depicts exactly what was happening around those educated scoffers and

Fourthly, Psa.22 is about the faih and hope suffering people have that God knows everything that's going on and never forsakes the righteous.

I think what many people do, is take a statement from the NT which cites the OT and don't connect them in a way that they agree.

Psa.22 even talks about how the Jews forefathers were mistreated and delivered by God. And our Savior is the Author of this,

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. Psa.22:24

 

[Dorothy Mae]

And yet:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (ESV)

Looks like the Son asking why the Father has forsaken him to me.

We read the words and assume a few things a wider consideration eliminates.

One, do we really think Jesus was surprised or didn’t know the answer to that question? Does it sound like He was asking for information at that point? Doesn’t seem likely given the circumstances.

Second, Jesus had an intimacy with the Father none of us has achieved. He knew his audible voice and otherwise. So since we know sin separates us from the Father’s presence, and Jesus took upon Himself the sin of the world, it seems reasonable to assume God’s always-intensely-palatable-presence withdrew at that point. So “forsaken” to Jesus’ experience might have been more than many of us have tasted at all.

So what did Jesus mean? Isn’t the most fitting understanding that Jesus was simply expressing human emotions? He knew why he was there. He had known for a long time it was coming. He knew separation would happen, but the intense pain moved Him to express his feelings in words same as he once said, “how long do I have to put up with you?” was not asking for information but expressing a human emotion.

 

[Highway54]

And yet:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (ESV)

Looks like the Son asking why the Father has forsaken him to me.

That passage went through my mind when I read Journeyman's post Free. We know that Jehovah did not forsake him, and I am puzzled personally as to why Jesus said it. Many feel that Ps 22:1 was a prophecy of Jesus, and that he said it to fulfill that prophecy. And just like what happened to Jesus, the account in Psalms came out to be for the best.

Another thing, satan had already accused God of putting a protective hedge around Job, so He couldn't put that hedge around Jesus either. The perfect man Adam lost life for mankind, and therefore Jesus would have to keep his integrity in order to redeem us. If God was to interfere, satan might have a stronghold to work with. Jesus knew what was to come, and had told his apostles some of what was to happen, he knew it was one of the reasons he was sent to earth.

We learn from this that we cannot expect Jehovah to put a hedge around us as well. Jesus told us that we will be persecuted as he was, and like him some of us will even be martyred for our faith. Most of us do not have to undergo that severe of a trial however, but we should be ready to keep our integrity if it does come. Jesus' example as well as Job's shows us that the temporary suffering that we might have to face will be more than compensated for if we keep our integrity.

 

[Free]

It does look that way, but lets look at the circumstances under which Jesus said that.

First off, the people regarded as scholars of the OT were at the cross. They thought Jesus was abandoned by God,
Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save. Mk.15:31

Seconly, Jesus quoted from Psa.22, which those mocking him knew verbatim.

Thirdly, Psa.22 depicts exactly what was happening around those educated scoffers and

Fourthly, Psa.22 is about the faih and hope suffering people have that God knows everything that's going on and never forsakes the righteous.

I think what many people do, is take a statement from the NT which cites the OT and don't connect them in a way that they agree.

Psa.22 even talks about how the Jews forefathers were mistreated and delivered by God. And our Savior is the Author of this,

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. Psa.22:24

Yet, Jesus said what he said. Are you suggesting Jesus lied or was mistaken or was purposely misleading those Jewish leaders near the cross?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Seconly, Jesus quoted from Psa.22, which those mocking him knew verbatim.

Thirdly, Psa.22 depicts exactly what was happening around those educated scoffers and

Fourthly, Psa.22 is about the faih and hope suffering people have that God knows everything that's going on and never forsakes the righteous.

I think what many people do, is take a statement from the NT which cites the OT and don't connect them in a way that they agree.

Psa.22 even talks about how the Jews forefathers were mistreated and delivered by God. And our Savior is the Author of this,

That's right. He was quoting it to say that the prophecy had now been fulfilled.

About your OP, I agree. I think it pleases God when we die to ourselves and resist the urge to lash out. As scripture says, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" says the Lord.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That's right. He was quoting it to say that the prophecy had now been fulfilled.

About your OP, I agree. I think it pleases God when we die to ourselves and resist the urge to lash out. As scripture says, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" says the Lord.

Yes Hopeful. No where in Psa.22 is our Father punishing the righteous in place of the wicked. The wicked punished the Son because they hate God.

 

[Free]

We read the words and assume a few things a wider consideration eliminates.

One, do we really think Jesus was surprised or didn’t know the answer to that question? Does it sound like He was asking for information at that point? Doesn’t seem likely given the circumstances.

Second, Jesus had an intimacy with the Father none of us has achieved. He knew his audible voice and otherwise. So since we know sin separates us from the Father’s presence, and Jesus took upon Himself the sin of the world, it seems reasonable to assume God’s always-intensely-palatable-presence withdrew at that point. So “forsaken” to Jesus’ experience might have been more than many of us have tasted at all.

So what did Jesus mean? Isn’t the most fitting understanding that Jesus was simply expressing human emotions? He knew why he was there. He had known for a long time it was coming. He knew separation would happen, but the intense pain moved Him to express his feelings in words same as he once said, “how long do I have to put up with you?” was not asking for information but expressing a human emotion.

I think the best explanation is that Jesus, as a man, meant what he said. He was forsaken by the Father in fulfillment of Psalm 22 which prophesied his death.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes Hopeful. No where in Psa.22 is our Father punishing the righteous in place of the wicked. The wicked punished the Son because they hate God.

Yes. It appears at first as though God has "forsaken him," but that is only stated IMO to communicate to set the stage for what follows, which is that He will be vindicated. By verse 22-24 the Psalmist is saying the exact opposite is the case, and v.14-18 are blatant prophetic foreshadowings:

1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.
11 Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help...

14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
19 But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!...

You have answered Me.
22 I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We learn from this that we cannot expect Jehovah to put a hedge around us as well.

This part isn't actually true, though. He places the same hedge around all of us, it's just that if we have arrived at a place of maturity where we can glorify God even in the midst of enduring sufferings, God can and will lower the hedge to allow us to. But that's only so we may attain greater rewards in eternity, if we are ready to endure such a test.

I have a hedge around me a mile wide. Nothing's getting through it unless and until God allows it to, and that won't be happening for the next 10 years at least, if ever. My life is designed for other things.

 

[hawkman]

Yet, Jesus said what he said.

But what did he say ?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The word sabachthani is the sticking point . Read at this link , I found it very informative .

https://www.chaimbentorah.com/2021/04/aramaic-word-study-eli-eli-lama-sabachthani/

 

[Free]

But what did he say ?

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The word sabachthani is the sticking point . Read at this link , I found it very informative .

https://www.chaimbentorah.com/2021/04/aramaic-word-study-eli-eli-lama-sabachthani/

That is informative. One of my commentaries says sabachthani is Chaldee, while the first three (in Matthew's account anyway) are Hebrew. The idea of forsaking or forgetting best fits the context, especially as it agrees with Psalm 22.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes. It appears at first as though God has "forsaken him," but that is only stated IMO to communicate to set the stage for what follows, which is that He will be vindicated. By verse 22-24 the Psalmist is saying the exact opposite is the case, and v.14-18 are blatant prophetic foreshadowings:

1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.
11 Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help...

14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
19 But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!...

You have answered Me.
22 I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.

Exactly Hidden In Him.
When all scripture is examined, the teaching is that our Creator withheld his anger toward people who greatly sinned against him, giving us time to repent of our wrongdoing.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think the best explanation is that Jesus, as a man, meant what he said. He was forsaken by the Father in fulfillment of Psalm 22 which prophesied his death.

“Forsaken” means many things depending upon what your experience is otherwise. Your view is too simple, too one dimensional. It’s unwise to accuse those whose understanding is deeper that they are then saying Jesus didn’t mean what he says as a rebuttal. Jesus always meant what he said same as God the Father. But what he meant isn’t necessarily what men think he meant.

 

[gordon777]

“Forsaken” means many things depending upon what your experience is otherwise. Your view is too simple, too one dimensional. It’s unwise to accuse those whose understanding is deeper that they are then saying Jesus didn’t mean what he says as a rebuttal. Jesus always meant what he said same as God the Father. But what he meant isn’t necessarily what men think he meant.

Forsaken is what the testimony in the scripture gives, for the faith in Christ, and not the faithlessness of Israel.

The comfort ( the Holy Ghost, the comforter Christ sent after the forsaking on the cross.) is the comforting of the Lords people, the mercy on His afflicted. ( HIs sheep) because Zion it was that had said, The Lord has forsaken me, my Lord has forgotten me.

God answers how He has not forgotten, He surpasses what a woman usually never does, to forget her young child. ( they are the young chid to God, they are graven upon the palms of His hands.)




John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Isaiah 4913 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
14 But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.

Isaiah 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.



Jesus on the cross is the message in scripture, of what Zion was, they forsook the Lord, they forgot and forsook the Lord days without number. 9 Zion had also said the Lord has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me.)

God had assured Zion He had never forgotten them, although they felt like it, although Jesus had to feel like that on the cross, deliverance came.




Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Jeremiah 2:32 Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.




Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[gordon777]

Our Father was pleased by how his Son endured sinful conduct, such as

Then some of them began to spit at him, and they blindfolded him and beat him with their fists. “Prophesy to us,” they jeered. And the guards slapped him as they took him away. Mk.14:65

And much worse. No loving father would be gratified by the abuse of his son. In fact, the Bible shows us even fools know what God will do to those who tortured Christ,

Pleasing the Lord:


Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.




Peter thought it not good for what Jesus was going to do, but that way of reasoning was satan's.

Man looses his own soul, as that soul was a separate entity in him.



Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Pleasing the Lord:


Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

I just showed where the scribes esteemed him smitten of God In judgement. I also just showed how they were wrong.
gorden777,
Will you agree with me that what our Lord Jesus Christ was charged with was a lie and that by the law given through Moses, could have had his accusers put to death?

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,

He was bruised as every son is chastened for corrective purposes only. In Heb.11, the suffering of the OT faithful is described. Then he says to the church,

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

He's speaking of how our Savior strove against the human desire to judge those who "contradicted" him (vs.3) enduring shameful treatment (vs.2).

Gods' correcting his only begotten Son? Why?

he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

His seed are people who believe in him. Follow him.

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings,
1Pet.4:12-13

I want to know Christ yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, Phil.3:10

So why is God correcting us the way he corrected himself?
He loved people who hated him. And that's what he taught us.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;

- O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Lk.13:34

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Lk.23:34

Jesus forgiving them...hmm.

for he shall bear their iniquities..

they picked up stones to stone him...the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him...and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throwhim off the cliff. Jn.8:59, Mt.27:41, Lk.4:29

To me, spitting on someone is disgusting enough, but the Messiah bore much more sin than that. Do you agree with me gorden 777?

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

He was numbered with two theives,

And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors. Mk.15:27-28

gorden777,
Can we agree that what mankind did to the Lamb of God was sin against him? And that mankind sins against our Father?

Peter thought it not good for what Jesus was going to do, but that way of reasoning was satan's.

Yes it was. Satan tempted Jesus to do things that were parlor tricks for Jesus.
Peter wanted to kill Jesus' enemies. Jesus wouldn't have needed any help for that,

Don’t you realize that I could ask my Father for thousands of angels to protect us, and he would send them instantly? Mt.26:53

Man looses his own soul, as that soul was a separate entity in him.

I don't know what you mean by this.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

It's always...always best to point the law at self. That was the reason for the law. We need to. He didn't. Think about that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This part isn't actually true, though. He places the same hedge around all of us, it's just that if we have arrived at a place of maturity where we can glorify God even in the midst of enduring sufferings, God can and will lower the hedge to allow us to. But that's only so we may attain greater rewards in eternity, if we are ready to endure such a test.

I have a hedge around me a mile wide. Nothing's getting through it unless and until God allows it to, and that won't be happening for the next 10 years at least, if ever. My life is designed for other things.

How come there wasn’t a hedge around the apostles?

You know who is spoken of as having a hedge? Job, a righteous man. Jesus never promised a hedge. He said he came to give an abundant life, not a protected one.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Exactly Hidden In Him.
When all scripture is examined, the teaching is that our Creator withheld his anger toward people who greatly sinned against him, giving us time to repent of our wrongdoing.

Until 70 AD, then those who pierced him faced the wrath.