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What really goes on in Pentecostal Churches?

cyberjosh

cyberjosh

Member
I think with the Holy Running and Holy Laughter and the demonic "being slain in the Spirit" must look something like the following in the more radical Pentecostal Church:

*demonstration removed*

Ok, sorry for the radical demonstration but I've heard of much worse such as writhing on the floor uncontrolably and other things which seem to be completely demonic in origin. I even talked to a pastor the other day who said he saw this one woman who was writhing on the floor supposedly having been slain in the Holy Spirit and she was bucking so much that people had to go up there to keep her dress down but the Pastor said that when he looked at her legs while she was having this fit he saw an unnatural bulging and pulsating in her legs every time she squirmed. The pastor said, "If that is the work of Holy Spirit then I want to know! Because seems like nothing but a demonic manifestation to me." And he started praying against demonic manifestation in the Church.

And the supposed experience of being "Slain in the Spirit" exposes the believer to a euphoric state of letting go to the "peace and joy" they feel, which is contrary to the examples of God's true presence among his people where they fell down on their face in fear and trembling. Also Holy Running and Holy Laughter is nothing but mass chaos and is uncontrollable. God does not work through chaos, and we know that Pentecostal certainly do not keep the command of women to be silent in the Church because they are up there hooting and hollering with the rest of em. And the idea of being filled with the fire of the Holy Ghost is the wrong image. Being Baptised with fire spoke of judgement not this extreme-radical jamboree that Pentecostals have in their Churches. And the idea of being filled with the fire of the Holy Ghost is the wrong image.

Now I know not every Pentecostal church is like this (only the more radical ones), but does no one else agree with me that the things I have described are not of God at all but of Satan and is being used to decieve those among the Pentecostal church? These activities frighten me because if you play with fire you will get burned. Does anyone else share these sentiments with me?
 
I have every confidence that before you made your post, that you have spent time on your knees crying out to the Lord on behalf of these brothers and sisters that you are concerned about. I know that with your prayers going up, that there will be a purification and edification taking place.

I stand in agreement with you prayers that the Lord will give us all discernment, because we all know what Jesus said about pointing to the work of the Holy Spirit and calling it demonic. I pray that none of God's people do such a thing.
 
Gabby, I think one of the great problems within Christendom is that most do not have discernment of what is of the spirit of God.

Demonstration of the so-called supernatural is not necessarily of God.
 
As I am very shy, I only went to a pentacostal Church only once. I did not know what to do when the congregation started to wave their hands and speak in what I guess were tongues. I remembered that in the book of Acts at pentacost that the reason people spoke in tongues was because some of the people there did not speak the same languages. Maybe some of them were speaking in tongues, but some of it sounded like people saying "tra la la la" and stuff like that. My husband told me that he said one thing in tongues and did not know what it was and found out later that it was Arabic or something for "bless God" or something (I wasn't there at the time). I did not feel moved to speak in tongues and wondered at the time if I was doing something wrong. I stick to fundamentalist Churches now.
 
Christine.

There are many who believe that 'speaking in tongues' is not for today - and I don't want to debate that issue. However, I will say (as one who has received this gift) that there are many who think they have it, but don't. There are also many who believe they can prophesy, but they are false prophets. And in like manner, sadly, the other so-called 'gifts of the spirit' are often counterfeited.

But this does not in any way invalidate the true gifts.

That is why I say there is a lack of discernment within Christendom.
 
But this does not in any way invalidate the true gifts.

That is why I say there is a lack of discernment within Christendom.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, and there surely is a true filling of the Holy Spirit and true gift of tongues. However this Holy Running & laughter thing is something completely new and not of God. What's odd is whenever I went to church where anything wild was going on I would remain reserved all the while thinking "Am I blocking God's Spirit moving in me?" but later God confirmed that I did the right thing.

I have every confidence that before you made your post, that you have spent time on your knees crying out to the Lord on behalf of these brothers and sisters that you are concerned about. I know that with your prayers going up, that there will be a purification and edification taking place.
Click to expand...

I had a roommate all last semester, whom I loved like a brother, who was a Pentecostal and near the end of the semester our doctrinal issues really showed through. He believed that I wasn't baptised in the Holy Spirit if I hadn't spoke in tongues and hadn't experienced the "Spirit filling" that takes you to the next level after salvation. We had very sincere and very long discussions, and I was so honest with myself about legitimate questions that I actually questioned whether I was really baptised in the Spirit at all. I was so upset that I spent the entire weekend studying the Bible to find out once and for all what the Baptism of the Spirit was and what it does in the believer's life. After two days I discovered that I had worried in vain but the realization of God baptising me in His Spirit and giving me His power (dunamis -as was promised to the disciples on Pentecost) to utilize in daily life for overcome sin (Romans 8:13) was incredible and I'm glad I learned about it (for I had previously been ingnorant). So I know that this Pentecostal "second experience" which they call Baptism of the Holy Spirit is false (because all believers recieve it upon salvation) and that it does not necessitate an "experience" that you obviously feel (unlike what he said).

Secondly when he told me that the "best services" that he had been in were when the people were Slain in Spirit, laughing, running around the sanctuary, and speaking in tongues, I asked him how that glorifies God at all. I asked him to describe to me being Slain in the Spirit and he described it as the Holy Spirit falling on someone so hard that they cannot stand any longer and are "slain" in a sense where they fall into a blissful state full of joy and peace. After he had such a hard time seeing why I was reserved about this practice, I then told him about how everything he was spewing at me about that experience sounded just like what a neo-Gnostic Spiritualist which I had talked with in a debate, over the internet, described her experiences about when she was a medium for spirits. And I remember talking to my Dad about it later and he told me that being Slain of the Spirit is definately not of God. My Dad said that he has actually had the Holy Spirit come on him so hard he too could not stand but he fell to his knees in fearful prayer (and consistant with God's real presence - II Chronicles 5:14) not into a euphoric babbling state (which actually exposes your mind - particularly your emotions - to be manipulated). And I asked my roommate "Well what did you get out of the experience? What was God's purpose in that experience? God doesn't do things without a reason." All he could tell me was, "Oh it just felt so good, the peace and joy" and I said "No, I asked what did you get out of it, what did God bring out of that experience? God doesn't move without a reason." He couldn't give me a straight answer. Later on I also had this confirmed to me that my caution was well founded.

I must tell you I do have genuine concern for these people. Although I must admit sometimes I don't pray for these problems in the Church because perhaps I feel powerless to do anything. But that's an attitude that I need to kick because, "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16). Right now I can only combat this doctrinally but perhaps I should pray more on this to pray to God to open the eyes of these people who are having what seems like a zoo of chaos in God's house which I see in no way glorifies God.
 
I think it was either John Arnott of Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship, or Rodney Howard Brown of Lakewood Church in Florida who started the laughing revival. I assure you the misuse of the gift of tongues is a very trivial problem compared to all the demonic manifestations that have appeared throughout this movement.
They do not call themselves pentecostals by any means, they are in the charasmatic camp, which is more in left field at a much broader range than the pentecostals.
John Arnott, Bill Johnson, Randy Clark, and Rodney H. Browne are big name charasmatic leaders. I have been in meetings with Bill Johnson and Randy Clark, all of these men stress 'experience' over sound doctrine and lead a very chaotic church service.
We had them at our old church for a week long series of meetings so I know what they are all about.
When Randy Clark left the vinyard movement he openly admitted 'experience over doctrine'; Randy left the vinyard frying pan to go jump in the fire with John Arnott.
Do a search on any of the names i've mentioned and you will learn quite a bit about where the laughing revival originated. I used to be in the charasmatic movement and these men are highly esteemed leaders sitting at the top of the heirarchy.
Most of the pentecostals that I know aren't associated with them and know nothing about the laughing revival.

Here is a testimony that I found somewhere else a lady had written about the men mentioned above. Based on my own experiences within the movement, this testimony is very believable...

I, along with members of my church, attended Healing school & Impartation 1 with Randy Clark ,Bill Johnson and Leif Hetland in May 2006 at a Luthern church in Minnesota. The meeting was mild. I now understand why. The goal was to "impart" into the leaders of that church without allowing the deception to be known. In August 2006, I then attended with members from our church Healing school & Impartation 2 at Toronto Airport Church taught by Randy Clark, Paul Cox and Che Ahn . I had warning from the Holy Spirit about the deception before I went. I knew I was suppose to go since this teaching was being brought into our church. It was unbelievable what took place. I bought the DVD's to give my Pastor who was shocked. He had to have meetings with leadership to correct them. The atmosphere in the Toronto Airport is heaviness as if someone drugged you . The people swat at the air and duck down as if they are being attacked by something. They jerk and scream out as if in torment. Randy taught that miracles can counterdict scripture. Paul Cox said his ministry started when someone told him he had a demon on his head that is how he discerns. He then announced angels are here he knew because he stepped on an angels toe. He said the ArchAngel Gabriel is here. The place went wild moans, screams and jerking. Mimi who works for Paul is Gabriels interpreter she went up to the platform bent over swinging her arms like a windmill to tell us the message. Paul said , "the son of righteousness is a female being." Then said, " the son of righteousness will arise with healing in her wings." I was in tears at the deception. He announced the Tabernacle was here and we were to go through it to be purified. I left! I got the DVD's and there is more. They set up 2 lines of their leaders and the church passed through the Tabernacle displaying weird manifastions as they walked through. Their leaders pulled demons off the people as they passed through. Then Paul taught you feel demons in the air with your hands then pick them off people as if taking lint off someone. They practiced pulling demons off each other. They pulled many demons off of Randy Clark. This teaching is DANGEROUS ! An angel said ,through their intrepreter, that you are not to keep this you are to give it away and when you do it grows stronger in you. Hence the "impartation" or "downloading". These people all belong to the same ministry. Bill Johnson has left the Assembly of God to be apart of Randys alliance.
 
mutzrein said:
Christine.

There are many who believe that 'speaking in tongues' is not for today - and I don't want to debate that issue. However, I will say (as one who has received this gift) that there are many who think they have it, but don't. There are also many who believe they can prophesy, but they are false prophets. And in like manner, sadly, the other so-called 'gifts of the spirit' are often counterfeited.

But this does not in any way invalidate the true gifts.

That is why I say there is a lack of discernment within Christendom.
Click to expand...

:smt023 :smt023 :smt023 :smt023
 
If you do a study on the mystery religions you will see many similarities with what you see today in Pentecostal churches.
 
Spiritual gifts have always been abused and counterfeited. They have also been completely denied by some denominations ...I have experienced both, and both of those ways are not the paths that I would choose for myself.
I want and need all that God has for me, and I hope I never let man get in the way of that.
 
Dave... said:
If you do a study on the mystery religions you will see many similarities with what you see today in Pentecostal churches.
Click to expand...
If you want to use that argument then you better be prepared to take it all the way and show that all of Christianity shares similarities...


I agree with mutzrein and destiny. Having been raised a Pentecostal, I have stepped back in the last few years due to what I have seen.
 
Free said:
If you want to use that argument then you better be prepared to take it all the way and show that all of Christianity shares similarities....
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!

I have been in Methodist and Baptist churches that are just plain dead churches. I have also been to a tent meeting where the speaker was putting his hands on the forehead of the people who went forward and was quite obviously attempting to 'push' them down.

The bottom line should not be a competition to see who has blown it the worst. It is kind of a reverse of "Who is the greatest in the kingdom" game.

You who are spiritual ought to be praying for your weaker brothers and sisters.
 
Actually guys, dave is really right.
The penticostals are really a perversion of the holyness movement that was started by John Wesley.

One of the largest prversions is the Word of Faith movement or (wolf) for short.This is an appropriate name because these like to fleece the sheep.
These are wolfs id sheeps clothing.

A comman penticostal saying is "Knowledge is of the devil"

Guess who said this ''Believers are not to be led by logic, he writes. We are not even to be led by good sense (The Force of Faith, 7) I don't preach doctrine, I preach faith. (Following the Faith of Abraham I, side 2)'' If you said Keneth copeland you are correct

Here is a good one.
"I think God's given up on a lot of that old rotten Sanhedrin religious crowd, twice dead, plucked up by the roots. I think they're damned and on their way to hell and I don't think there's any redemption for them...the heresy hunters that want to find a little mote of illegal doctrine in some Christian's eye and pluck that little mote out of their eye when they've got the whole forest in their own lives and in their own eyes. I say to hell with you! Oh hallelujah. Get out of God's way, quit blocking God's bridges or God's gonna shoot you if I don't! I refuse to argue any longer with any of you out there. Don't even call me. If you want to argue doctrine, if you want to straighten out somebody over here, if you want to criticize Ken Copeland for his preaching on faith, or Dad Hagin. Get out of my life! I don't even want to talk to you or hear you. I don't want to see your ugly face! Get out of my face in Jesus' name." (Paul Crouch, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, recorded 4/2/91)


Here is another good one.
"Naturally, the devil tried to shut down this living, breathing Church. He wanted dry bones. He began to take the freshness of God and put Ecclesiastical dogma on it. He used theological Understanding to water down the fire." ... "Most theologians don’t fasten their eyes on Jesus. They fasten their eyes on the Greek and the Hebrew. There’s nothing wrong with Greek and Hebrew. There’s nothing wrong with study. But why should we study? To know more about Jesus. A lot of people get so involved in study that they take God out and deal with mere words." (Jesse Duplantis, Voice of the Covenant magazine, November 1997, p. 7)

On Calvary Chapel: "Calvaryites are sometimes a little too heavily oriented to the written Word." (John Wimber, "Healing: An Introductions," (audiotape no. 5) and "Church Planting Seminar," as quoted in Stephen F. Cannon, "Kansas City Fellowship Revisited")

The biggest problem with penticostals is they do not study theology and very little bible.
This is why 98% of penticostal churches are cults.
 
oscar3 said:
A comman penticostal saying is "Knowledge is of the devil"
Click to expand...
If it's so common then why have I never heard it?

oscar3 said:
The biggest problem with penticostals is they do not study theology and very little bible. This is why 98% of penticostal churches are cults.
Click to expand...
My goodness oscar, it is apparent that you know very little of Pentecostal beliefs and practice.
 
oscar3 said:
The biggest problem with penticostals is they do not study theology and very little bible.
This is why 98% of penticostal churches are cults.
Click to expand...

And that is why there are many folk who believe righteousness is based on knowledge.
 
Hi all!

I only had time to read OP before realising I'd best post, while I still have time, that I'm not offended by OP

In Bible College, I asked very similar questions, having been saved thru Plymouth Brethren & spent 10 years with them

I just now saw the post above mine, as I'd seen a typo & need to edit: praise God how this flows naturally from that too

I've shared before how they seek the leading of the Holy Spirit in all their meetings, even though they believe the gifts of the Spirit were just temporary loans, repossessed after the Bible was written

But the Bible says 'this gift is for you, your children, their children & to as many as are afar of..to as many as believe'

Today's CT email has @ 4 related links

Here's 'what really unites Pentecostals?'

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... 16.18.html

It examines both Pentecostals & Charismatics - as 'renewalists' - rightly saying that in much of the world, there is no real difference

The head of Pew Forum research says it's no exaggeration to talk of Christianity being 'pentecostalised'

But I get the feeling that their survey questions were somewhat loaded: it says that 'the prosperity gospel' is what really unites renewalists, even more than the Acts 2 gift of tongues

But its wording suggests a belief that those who simply 'have enough faith' will be granted material wealth by God

My 42 years of creative evangelism in evangelical, charismatic & Pentecostal circles shows strongly that what really unites is faith in God's Word

Proverbs etc encourage conscientious, hard work & the Bible clearly says, "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, as unto the Lord, not to men

I've never heard any evangelical preacher deny that, but that article seems to imply that 'renewalists' expect God to bless the lazy with wealth

I've only had Christian TV for @ a year, but have heard many messages from TD Jakes, Matthew Ashimolowo, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Morris Cerullo, Rod Howard-Browne, Paula White, Ken Copeland, Mike Murdoch etc

& OP descriptions of phenomena don't tally

Must post the other 3 links in a reply..

Ian
 
I went to a Pentecostal church ONCE, and, yep, some in the congregation did speak in tongues and were "slayed by the spirit". I'm used to MUCH more formal religious services, but there was something about it, a connection maybe, that I liked. They didn't seem ignorant in any way?

All of them sure seemed to know the Bible very well, the Pentecostal groups credit the charismatic gifts and expressions to demonic or carnal motives and spirits as an unpardonable sin. Another one was the failure to convert to Christianity before death.
 
Amazing timing, L-H: we were probably typing at the same time

& your post not only follows on from that focus on God's Word, but leads nicely into this next link @ how this 'pentecostalisation' has shifted the 'Christian centre of gravity' to Africa, Asia & Latin America

As the head of Pew Forum kinda said, in that first article, the backsliding west must learn that it has to listen to 3rd world Christian leaders whose faith has been strengthened in the furnace of affliction

Shall the fundamentalists win?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... -22.0.html

I only had time to read its opening - an exasperated African bishop ask western liberals, "why did you bring us the Bible if you don't believe it?'

Maybe just time for final link..



Ian
 
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