What Republicans want in health care

[jasoncran]

so the va issues is just new? that it wasn't always funded by the democrats? or was it the republicans who wanted it. sure I don't like hmo's. but the obamacare act doesn't deal with the issues. a doctor can refuse insurance.

 

[Mike S]

Some have blamed Republicans for the current government shutdown and claimed that the reason is that Republicans don't want affordable health care for everybody. Some others have disagreed and say that this is a malicious lie. Listen to this recording of a conversation that took place in the White House and decide for yourself what Republicans want.

Ehrlichman: All the incentive is toward less medical care, because the less care they give them, the more money they make.
Nixon: Fine
Ehrlichman: And all the incentives run the right way
Nixon: Not bad​

Yes, it's around 40 years old, but has the Republican agenda really changed that much?

The TOG​

Has the Republican agenda changed? Not if you compare the very liberal Nixon administration with today's very liberal establishment Republicans. But, the conservative/libertarian agenda has not, it has always been based on market solutions. The House policies are, for now at least, being driven by conservative/libertarian Tea Party Republicans, not liberal establishment Republicans. So yes, the Republican agenda may every well have changed, and, that's good...good for the Republican party and good for America.

But, having said that, even the policies embraced by Nixon - which resulted in the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 - were intended to be based on market forces soultions. It was not based on government run programs.

ALL Republicans - Tea Party Members and establishment Republicans alike - want affordable health care for all Americans, but NONE wants a big government run program like Obama's AHCA.

 

[TOG]

so the va issues is just new? that it wasn't always funded by the democrats? or was it the republicans who wanted it.

Could you show me the part where I said that? I seem to have missed it.

sure I don't like hmo's. but the obamacare act doesn't deal with the issues. a doctor can refuse insurance.

I didn't say the Affordable Care Act was perfect. I was just pointing out the real reason Republicans are against it. Whether it be in health care or in any other area, more money for big corporations is more important to Republican politicians than providing good products and services to the public, especially to those with low incomes.

The TOG

 

[TOG]

ALL Republicans - Tea Party Members and establishment Republicans alike - want affordable health care for all Americans, but NONE wants a big government run program like Obama's AHCA.

Did you miss the part where he said that it was a good thing that providing less health care meant making more money? That doesn't sound like "ALL Republicans... want affordable health care for all Americans" to me. Sounds more like some Republicans (I won't say all) care more about big corporations making money than about health care for the people.

The TOG​

 

[jasoncran]

Obama seems to exempt his friends so you tell me that is ok?low incomes? really Im a solder and enlisted at that, and yet Obama tells me that I HAVE to pay more because the government unions need insurance too. how does an e-4(im and e-6) that makes 30k at the most year with a spouse who if she works makes less then 13k a year and has kids expect to have insurance coverage, up until 1993 , the dependents of soldiers were paid for. guess who undid that? the DEMOCRATS. SORRY THAT IS why I have no faith in the democrats. you forget unions are business(they charge membership and have paid positions and also offer its members benefits outside of the jobs a pension and health insurance) I should know, where I work is unionized but I don't have to be a member to work where I work, if it was such a good deal then why did the insurance companies not protest? they get more to cover less they don't loose! or if the charge less they cover less. its easy to work and earn more then ya need to make over limits if one tries. my step daughter is one of those. makes too much now with two kids, she has and cant afford coverage , her kids are covered. go figure that one out. she will have to pay more and do without more to get insurance. she works as a pet groomer and with a vet. crappy economy less money for her.and we know Obama is a job killer.im not a fan of the corporations and wealthy. I know they can be greedy but more government cant change that. that is trying to LEGISLATE MORALITY. GREED BY DEFINITION IS A SIN AND THUS MORALITY.how does the economy grow? what really drives it? I will tell you greed and ambition. while im not for greed but ambitions isn't always bad nor is the desire to make more.(ambition) there has to be a proper balance that only you can find for yourself. for me living on the beach is too much. I have no love for the mansions I shall see this week and tomorrow and the ones I saw today but I will not support a law that limits what a man can make.

 

[Knotical]

What both sides fail to realize is that they should be asking US what WE want, or need, when it comes to healthcare. There is a simple answer to that question: Let the free market work, get out of the business of telling us what we want or need, and stop regulating the crap out of it. The american people will decide how much they are willing to pay, and what they are willing to pay for, then the health insurance companies will no other choice than to compete for the public's business.

The government never should have gotten involved in healthcare.

 

[Mike S]

Did you miss the part where he said that it was a good thing that providing less health care meant making more money? That doesn't sound like "ALL Republicans... want affordable health care for all Americans" to me. Sounds more like some Republicans (I won't say all) care more about big corporations making money than about health care for the people.

The TOG​

Are you assuming that a government run program would be better, that government bureaucrats denying health care would be better than private insurers controlling costs?

 

[jasoncran]

we haven't had a real free market health care system in a long time. I would say since 1968.

 

[Claudya]

What both sides fail to realize is that they should be asking US what WE want, or need, when it comes to healthcare. There is a simple answer to that question: Let the free market work, get out of the business of telling us what we want or need, and stop regulating the crap out of it. The american people will decide how much they are willing to pay, and what they are willing to pay for, then the health insurance companies will no other choice than to compete for the public's business.

The government never should have gotten involved in healthcare.

Please excuse me, I know I have no business posting here since I'm not American. But I wonder about something:
You rightfully ask for people's choices in a democratic and free country like the USA. But doesn't the election of President Obama, who announced a public health care system when he first campaigned for presidency, and especially his re-election for the second term; mean that the majority of American people have chosen they want a state run health care program instead of having the free market take care of it?

 

[PrivateTimm]

The video clip is a very dishonest distortion of what was being talked about. The "providing less health care" was referring to the major feature of HMOs, which was supposed to be preventative care that would reduce costs. The incentive to the business was to see people more often, "maintain" their health and avoid the higher costs of treating a condition when it was more critical. The Nixon Administration was trying to find a way to make health care and insurance affordable for everyone.

Do note that the audio is incomplete and edited to create the false impression that fits the poster's agenda. This is from 1971 and the HMO Act of 1973 that was passed two years later and it was the baby of Ted Kennedy. Perhaps people should read the signing statement of Nixon.

Signing Statement on HMO Act of 1973

Here is a nice primer on what is wrong with HMOs and the 40 year march to single payer instead of free market/freedom based solutions to health insurance and care.

The History of HMOs

 

[jasoncran]

no, Claudia, so by voting for any potus does that mean you support him on all things? often voters are ill informed and vote on images of the person they see(you laugh but its not far from the truth). I refuse to do this.i know who both Obama and McCain and also Romney were ere 2006. I didn't really like McCain much nor Romney. I try to avoid voting for the lesser of two evils. Obama wanted us to get into lybia, I doubt the same support would have been for bush as the media went soft on Obama for that and no resistance to the idea of Syria either though I don't see us doing that. yet if Mitt Romney wanted to do this they would be harping no, wheres the proof of Syria?

 

[Mike S]

Please excuse me, I know I have no business posting here since I'm not American. But I wonder about something:
You rightfully ask for people's choices in a democratic and free country like the USA. But doesn't the election of President Obama, who announced a public health care system when he first campaigned for presidency, and especially his re-election for the second term; mean that the majority of American people have chosen they want a state run health care program instead of having the free market take care of it?

Not really. Americans also elected a majority of Republicans in the House of Representatives. As is frequently the case, we've chosen a divided government, which is always a sign of conflicting public opinions. And the AHCA is passed with no Republican votes - that's ZERO votes - when Democrats controlled both the Senate and the House.

Our government was never intended to be a majority-rules government, it's a Constitutional Republic form of government with separated and very limited enumerated powers, and specifically design checks and balances to protect the rights citizens with minority opinions. Benjamin Franklin had it right "A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." That is NOT our American form of government.

Additionally, the United States is not a union of 330 million people, it's a union of 50 states. That means the federal government has only very few areas of authority and responsibility, and the states have sovereign powers to deal with everything else. It is intended that the federal government have very little to do with our day to day lives.

 

[PrivateTimm]

You rightfully ask for people's choices in a democratic and free country like the USA. But doesn't the election of President Obama, who announced a public health care system when he first campaigned for presidency, and especially his re-election for the second term; mean that the majority of American people have chosen they want a state run health care program instead of having the free market take care of it?

No.

 

[Knotical]

@Claudia, to build on what others have said, Obama was not really voted in with that much of a majority. He won both elections by some pretty close margins (especially the last one). The major problem with our political system is there are only really two viable candidates that run for the presidency every four years; the lesser of two evils, it is just that the faces change each time.

I for one wanted neither of the choices we were left with the last time around, but the guy I wanted just did not have the support (at the time) to make it through the Republican primaries (that and he was basically railroaded at the RNC).

Personally, I would like to see us do away with the Electoral College and go purely on popular vote for the presidency. The people actually doing the voting would have a much greater say on who becomes president.

 

[TOG]

Are you assuming that a government run program would be better, that government bureaucrats denying health care would be better than private insurers controlling costs?

Have you ever lived in a country with a government run health care system? I have. They don't deny people health care, as some seem to think for some reason. They provide it. If you're sick or injured, you just go to the nearest hospital and they won't ask you "Do you have insurance?", and there's no risk of them refusing you treatment because your insurance company won't pre-aprove it. They just treat you and you only have to pay a minimal amount (tens of dollars) or, in many cases, nothing at all.

The TOG​

 

[jasoncran]

really, so they just treat everyone for free? they do charge you. its called taxes. ah yes nothing in life is free. the military offers free health care too. I know when im on orders I have it for free. yah ask a vet about that mighty fine va and champus care. oh im sure you get a lot of bad stuff.i know a man who sat on orders(costs the government to replace his disc in back over 80 k) and he later had to pay out of his pocket cause the va did it wrong.

 

[jasoncran]

@Claudia, to build on what others have said, Obama was not really voted in with that much of a majority. He won both elections by some pretty close margins (especially the last one). The major problem with our political system is there are only really two viable candidates that run for the presidency every four years; the lesser of two evils, it is just that the faces change each time.

I for one wanted neither of the choices we were left with the last time around, but the guy I wanted just did not have the support (at the time) to make it through the Republican primaries (that and he was basically railroaded at the RNC).

Personally, I would like to see us do away with the Electoral College and go purely on popular vote for the presidency. The people actually doing the voting would have a much greater say on who becomes president.

ok you do realize that would make our government a democracy not a republic? that issue was the reason that the constution almost didn't make it. it was along with the idea of the house of representatives. if its by popular vote then I might as well not bother with voting. Miami, tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando, and others all carried my state to the left for Obama. so if I lived in Utah, forget the idea as well or any small state.

 

[Mike S]

Have you ever lived in a country with a government run health care system? I have. They don't deny people health care, as some seem to think for some reason. They provide it. If you're sick or injured, you just go to the nearest hospital and they won't ask you "Do you have insurance?", and there's no risk of them refusing you treatment because your insurance company won't pre-aprove it. They just treat you and you only have to pay a minimal amount (tens of dollars) or, in many cases, nothing at all.

The TOG​

Yes, I live in the United States and use the government run VA health care system. I also have private insurance and use private hospitals. Any guesses as to which I prefer?

 

[jasoncran]

Mike S, do you get the letters from the va? I do, even though I don't use the va for it. they did say I could go there for treatment.i still can if I had too but its a tiered system whereby they look at your income.

 

[PrivateTimm]

Have you ever lived in a country with a government run health care system? I have. They don't deny people health care, as some seem to think for some reason. They provide it. If you're sick or injured, you just go to the nearest hospital and they won't ask you "Do you have insurance?", and there's no risk of them refusing you treatment because your insurance company won't pre-aprove it. They just treat you and you only have to pay a minimal amount (tens of dollars) or, in many cases, nothing at all.

That is actually not true. Large parts of my fathers family lives in Canada and his aunt was denied a hip replacement. They said she was too old and it would be a waste. They said they'd just give her medication to "manage the pain", which translated means, "we are going to keep you doped up and senseless."

That was 25 years ago and luckily her son was able to cross the border with her to the U.S. and get the operation done. My father went to her 100th birthday this last weekend.